rear Salisbury convert to front??

[CROver]

Hello guys,

I read some post somwhere on net that one guy in Oregon,USA did convert (succesfully) a rear Salisbury diff to front unit?!
Have some of You any know-how,expirience,pictures,manual how to do something like this?
Or is simplier to purchase Maxidrive for front diff?I'm sure it is but isn't that cool Btw what cost Maxies for Rangie front(sorry,I cant find official site with info datas)

cheers from Croatia

[Loanrangie]

A dana diff off a chev/ford/ jeep would be easiest way of fitting a salisbury in the front unless you want 4 wheel steering !

[uninformed]

leaf sprung s111 1 tons, had sals fronts, 101fc's had sals front and some armored 110s and specials had coil sals fronts


but if you spin around a rear, change over the axle tubes, cut them down and weld on the swivel mounts and radius arm stuff etc, etc it could be done. i'm not sure about rotation???? and you would have nasty prop shaft angles???

if you need more strength than maxi drive, go the toy route, although i have my opinions of this conversion
serg

[Mark2]

GQ front would have to be a lot easier with better ground clearance

[Reddo]

...more clearance with Nissan? I understand then opposite is true, ie, less than standard Rover. Go the maxi drive or JacMac!

[cloughy]

GQ front would have to be a lot easier with better ground clearance

There shit, weak C.V.'s and axles

Reddo, they're talking about having a sals in the front so yea even with nissan you'd have a foot extra clearance!

[justinC]

Sals too heavy for front use, your shocks have to control the movement of the diff assembly, This will lead to fading and bump steer. And unless you have 35" tyres, ground clearance is pathetic.
I always know when there is a 'Fender in front of me in the mud, by following the drag marks from the rear diff. As Reddo said, Maxi or JacMac centres and axles are more than adequate, even for high HP motors.

JC

[Michele]

go the toy route, although i have my opinions of this conversion
serg

Wanna share?

[cloughy]

go the toy route, although i have my opinions of this conversion
serg

Wanna share?

Toy high pinion fronts a CRAP and break way easier than a rover centre in reverse, yes WAY easier

[justinC]

What Cloughy said. X2.

JC

[landy_man]

go the toy route, although i have my opinions of this conversion
serg

Wanna share?

Toy high pinion fronts a CRAP and break way easier than a rover centre in reverse, yes WAY easier

I disagree as I am sure many other will as well..including the haltech boys, Disco Dino and a few others who have actually run these in their rigs..

[cloughy]

You disagree? reason? they are significantly weaker in reverse and that's a well known fact, most who run them baby them in go back gear for this reason, people have different styles and reasons for what they put in, but there still weaker than a rover gear set in reverse and i have watched them explode, if your reason is cause others run them without failure, i know a bloke running all standard diffs axles etc, with 35 centipedes and still without a failure but i drives it accordingly (fark that i was busting them before big tyres) but its still possible

[landy_man]

i was disagreeing with your blanket statement that Toyota High Pinions are crap in general.. yes they are not that strong in reverse.. and yes I drive accordingly when backing out.. but having actually held both in my hands at the same time.. and Mickrangie and Loanrangie were there as well.. the Toyota centres and cw&p's are heaps meatier than the Rovers.. and my centres are 4.5's... now I know just because they are thicker material does not neccesarily mean that they are stronger.. But IMO they look stronger and have held up very well in my Rangie with 35 ET's..

AFAIK the only people who have broken Toy bits in Rover housings are the Haultech buggies.. but if we drove our cars like they drive their buggies I reckon lots more would break before diffs... maybe the Toyota owners break their diffs because they only know one way.. LOUD PEDAL ON-LOUD PEDAL OFF etc.etc. and their big ass 80s/100's weigh a little more than my stripped out aluminium Rangie..

[F'n_Rover]

Hello guys,

I read some post somwhere on net that one guy in Oregon,USA did convert (succesfully) a rear Salisbury diff to front unit?!
Have some of You any know-how,expirience,pictures,manual how to do something like this?
Or is simplier to purchase Maxidrive for front diff?I'm sure it is but isn't that cool Btw what cost Maxies for Rangie front(sorry,I cant find official site with info datas)

cheers from Croatia

I'd go the sals front - it'll be a lot of work but most decent diff shops should be able to fab it up. Isuzurover posted some crap on pirate about it a while ago - can't find the link (do your own fark'n searching ).

I shaved my rear sals - it now has the same clearance as a rangie diff.
you can get heaps more clearance than this - but a heap more work.
Who really cares about the extra weight ? maybe an extra 20 - 30 kg ? buy some alloy wheels to compensate.

Is it for a series or coiler ???

[cloughy]

i was disagreeing with your blanket statement that Toyota High Pinions are crap in general.. yes they are not that strong in reverse.. and yes I drive accordingly when backing out.. but having actually held both in my hands at the same time.. and Mickrangie and Loanrangie were there as well.. the Toyota centres and cw&p's are heaps meatier than the Rovers.. and my centres are 4.5's... now I know just because they are thicker material does not neccesarily mean that they are stronger.. But IMO they look stronger and have held up very well in my Rangie with 35 ET's..

AFAIK the only people who have broken Toy bits in Rover housings are the Haultech buggies.. but if we drove our cars like they drive their buggies I reckon lots more would break before diffs... maybe the Toyota owners break their diffs because they only know one way.. LOUD PEDAL ON-LOUD PEDAL OFF etc.etc. and their big ass 80s/100's weigh a little more than my stripped out aluminium Rangie..

Fair enough then, but the last i seen break was a N/A 1hz 79 tray locked up and 35's simex, not much throttle about 30* hill, backing up it and snappy snappy, vehicle had travelled just over 70k klms and had only just started seeing any bush work, pretty pathetic really

[Maggot4x4]

GQ front would have to be a lot easier with better ground clearance

There shit, weak C.V.'s and axles

They are far stronger than the stock Rover stuff. Esp the axels.

I have had 4 GQ's over the years, plus GQ diffs in the Rangie. I have only ever broken 1 CV and that was because of too much lock due to a bent steering stop. They have all been running 35's or bigger and have been given hell.

Add that to the strenght of the centre and the fact it is almost a bolt in conversion for the front and I think it is an excellent way to go. And they can be shaved for more clearance, just ask Guru.

Toy high pinion fronts a CRAP and break way easier than a rover centre in reverse, yes WAY easier

They do have that reputation, but driven correctly the should be fine. I think part of the problem is not just the weight of the 79/80/100 the come from, but also the wheelbase is 30" longer than a Rover, so the weight has that much more leverage as well.

In a Rover they should hold up much better.

[justinC]

Actually, what Maggot says is a good point, the weight of the cruiser etc is partly to blame for this. If they were fitted and driven correctly to a lighter vehicle, which spends less time with wheels off the ground like a RR or disco etc, then they probably would be a better prospect than the Rover diffs for strength.
I've never thought the reverse pinion was a good idea as an engineering principle.

JC

[Maggot4x4]

If they were fitted and driven correctly to a lighter vehicle, which spends less time with wheels off the ground like a RR or disco etc, then they probably would be a better prospect than the Rover diffs for strength.

[Reddo]

what is the obsession with Toyotorising everthying round here! Seems to me if it's Toyota and it breaks, your a man and the vehicle is TOUGH but if it's Rover or Nissan or something else, your a girl and the vehicle is piss weak.

GET OVER IT!

PS we have both Toyo and Rover 4x4s and wear and tear and breakages are bout the same - perhaps more so with the Toyota in fact!,

Sorry time of the month

[landy_man]

what is the obsession with Toyotorising everthying round here! Seems to me if it's Toyota and it breaks, your a man and the vehicle is TOUGH but if it's Rover or Nissan or something else, your a girl and the vehicle is piss weak.

GET OVER IT!

PS we have both Toyo and Rover 4x4s and wear and tear and breakages are bout the same - perhaps more so with the Toyota in fact!,

Sorry time of the month

HUH ????
The reason most go with the Toyota conversion on their diffs is because they are stronger than rover.. more ratios.. cheaper than maxi/gbr 4.11's.. you get 30 splines..arb lockers for em are cheap 2nd hand... and Longfields (which you could use regardless i suppose).. well.. thats why I went for toyrover diffs in 4.5 anyway.. and haven't broken anything yet

[Reddo]

yes....I agree, but not everyone has the capability/time to do the engineering required whereas using JacMac/Maxi is basically plug in plug out, and you get new parts etc.

I guess it's a matter of choice/convenience in the end. At least there are several options available and that is go000ood

[ISUZUROVER]

OK, to get this back on topic.

I have been planning to build a front sals for quite a while now, I have just put it off until I get back to OZ (where my rovers are).

Serg summed it up nicely, there were 3 salisbury front axles:

101FC - 65" track, SOA leaf, 21 spline 1.47" axles, and enormous CVs. This is an extremely strong front end, only problem is it is relatively rare - CROver - this is what the guy in oregon fitted to his LWB series 1 (if it is who I am thinking of). The axle stands up to 37-40" wheels and a big V8. AFAIK he has broken a CV stub or two.

110 Armored - 61" track, coils, 24 spline 1.24" axles, one-ten CVs (strongest rover CV - apart from FC101), and enormous discs. Great option but try finding one.

Series III Armored - 55" track, SUA leaf, 24 spline 1.24" axles, drums. As above - hard to find.

Personally, I have been planning to turn a (shaved) rear sals into a front, with swivels and outer bits from a front axle and Longfield CVs. This setup would be stronger than a toy or nissan front (unless you made a custom nissan front using the big rear diff), and close to the strength of a 101 front or a D60 front.

I spoke to Mal about making a custom locker for a front sals with 1.31" 30 spline (D60) side gears fitted to it. He said it wouldn't be a problem. If I wanted to increase the inners to 1.5" 35 spline, then it would be a major job as you need to fit a locking dog and a huge halfshaft in - so would need a bearing with a larger ID, etc...

Building a front salisbury this way is a fairly major job, and As Justin said if you were running anything under 35" tyres would be an anchor offroad (even shaved) - but a shaved salisbury does not sit much lower than a rover diff, the main problem is the large surface area down low.

[Micka]

OK, to get this back on topic.

I have been planning to build a front sals for quite a while now, I have just put it off until I get back to OZ (where my rovers are).

Serg summed it up nicely, there were 3 salisbury front axles:

101FC - 65" track, SOA leaf, 21 spline 1.47" axles, and enormous CVs. This is an extremely strong front end, only problem is it is relatively rare - CROver - this is what the guy in oregon fitted to his LWB series 1 (if it is who I am thinking of). The axle stands up to 37-40" wheels and a big V8. AFAIK he has broken a CV stub or two.

110 Armored - 61" track, coils, 24 spline 1.24" axles, one-ten CVs (strongest rover CV - apart from FC101), and enormous discs. Great option but try finding one.

Series III Armored - 55" track, SUA leaf, 24 spline 1.24" axles, drums. As above - hard to find.

Personally, I have been planning to turn a (shaved) rear sals into a front, with swivels and outer bits from a front axle and Longfield CVs. This setup would be stronger than a toy or nissan front (unless you made a custom nissan front using the big rear diff), and close to the strength of a 101 front or a D60 front.

I spoke to Mal about making a custom locker for a front sals with 1.31" 30 spline (D60) side gears fitted to it. He said it wouldn't be a problem. If I wanted to increase the inners to 1.5" 35 spline, then it would be a major job as you need to fit a locking dog and a huge halfshaft in - so would need a bearing with a larger ID, etc...

Building a front salisbury this way is a fairly major job, and As Justin said if you were running anything under 35" tyres would be an anchor offroad (even shaved) - but a shaved salisbury does not sit much lower than a rover diff, the main problem is the large surface area down low.

I have one of those as soon as you are ready Ben

But if you could be so kind as to add the portal boxes as well, that would be great.




Micka

[Reddo]

sounds like a great idea. Look forward to seeing the results!

[Mark2]

GQ front would have to be a lot easier with better ground clearance

There shit, weak C.V.'s and axles

They are far stronger than the stock Rover stuff. Esp the axels.

I have had 4 GQ's over the years, plus GQ diffs in the Rangie. I have only ever broken 1 CV and that was because of too much lock due to a bent steering stop. They have all been running 35's or bigger and have been given hell.

Add that to the strenght of the centre and the fact it is almost a bolt in conversion for the front and I think it is an excellent way to go. And they can be shaved for more clearance, just ask Guru.

Toy high pinion fronts a CRAP and break way easier than a rover centre in reverse, yes WAY easier

They do have that reputation, but driven correctly the should be fine. I think part of the problem is not just the weight of the 79/80/100 the come from, but also the wheelbase is 30" longer than a Rover, so the weight has that much more leverage as well.

In a Rover they should hold up much better.

GQ front ends hardly ever break anything other than CV's and usually only when locked and big tryes. You never see or hear about diff failures, and a GQ limited slip holds its tension forever. GQ CV's can be easily upgraded as well. IMHO (I've owned 2 GQ's) the drivetrain including gearbox is as good as it gets. My last GQ had done almost 500,000 km, the gearbox and diffs were untouched and were quieter and had less backlash than a brand new rover drivetrain. The amount of money that has to be spent on a standard rover diff and axles to get something approaching GQ strength is a joke. The LT95 is the only Rover gearbox starting to approach the strength of a GQ box (but nowhere near as refined and only a 4 speed). I wish my 110 had a GQ drivetrain........ While a Rover purist might have a problem fitting 'non rover components' I seem to recall that even the Salisbury was not a Rover design, I think bought from America? (along with the V8). Yes I know, if I think GQ's are so great why dont I just buy another one. Well I happen to like Land Rovers, even though somedays I wonder why......... End of rant.

[justinC]

You have some good points there Mark,
My cousin had a 110 county with a santana and a 6.2 chev diesel, and after spending most wekends under the thing and pulling gearboxes twice a year, he went and bought a Maverick diesel with a safari turbo/ intercooler etc and has more free time now.
He is still a LR enthusiast, and in fact introduced me to LR's when I was only a wippersnapper meself.
He just decided that he wants more time driving his 4bee than fixing it.
And yes, he would rather drive a good 110 than the nissan, but the reliability etc in his opinion is what drove him to be a turncoat.

JC

[Loanrangie]

yes....I agree, but not everyone has the capability/time to do the engineering required whereas using JacMac/Maxi is basically plug in plug out, and you get new parts etc.

Not hard, can be done in a day or weekend taking your time, its all available off the shelf.

[Reddo]

Interesting comments, and I agree that you can always build/modify a vehicle to be better/tougher and so on if you have the time and the money, and if you can do it yourself, even better and cheaper.

So far no regrets, Disco Dave has proven tough and very reliable and cost heaps less to buy and build than a equivelent status Nissan or Yota.

So, it will be around for a little while yet until something more capable and as affordable to modify/run comes along.

In fact, the family Paj has now depreciated to a level where serious modifications are looking very attractive (was worth 20kplus last year, now 10K maybe!) SAS to fix the shitty front end, diff and gearbox very tough.....big springs/shock/wheels hum....

[Loanrangie]

Thats what i like about running an older vehicle, easy and cheap to mod plus there is no resale value to worry about.

[Reddo]

yeah could not agree more - saw a shiny 80 series full of dollar mods (bull bar, winch, 35's, lockers etc etc) recently off-road, he quit at the first big hole for fear of 'damage'. No fun in that! Go older/less wanted and save for the mods and inevitable repairs.....