Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi everyone. I am new to the forum and I really need some help.

I have a 1991 Sportrak/Feroza 1.6 injection.

The problem is that when I first start it in the morning it only runs on 3 cylinders. I rev it a few times and it runs fine.

After driving 30mins or so, it starts to run rough, and it starts to overheat.

I have narrowed it down to the 3rd cylinder. When I took the HT lead out while running, it made no difference whatsoever.

I have replaced plugs, leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm.

I took plug and lead off and it is sparking, which makes me think it is something to do with the valves or injector, as there is a spark.


Does anybody have any ideas?

I would really appreciate any help.

Take the plugs out and pay particular attention to No.3. The state of the plug will tell you a lot about what is going on. If it's a whole lot cleaner than the others, then it's probably a head/head gasket issue, if it's really grubby, then I'd be looking at why. Do that first and post up the results.

I checked the plugs today and theye were all a light brown colour, none showed any obvious signs of problems.

I also carried out a compression test, and all 4 cyliners were within 0.1 bar of eachother and were only 0.1-0.2 bar off of the manufacturers specs, although its done 120,000miles/192000kms.

When the problem first happened a few days ago, there was unburnt fuel coming from the exhaust, now there is none at all. I was wondering if the injector was sticking open and closed, or if the electrical connections controlling the injector has a problem. Either that or a valve could be sticking when it warms up.

What do you think?

Thanks

Have you got access to off car injector cleaning in your area?
I had this done to my other car and the difference is amazing... Yours could be that clogged it wont let any fuel through... or it could be faulty.
The mechanics could take them off and flow test them for you. Then you can narrow the problem down further.

you could also change your fuel filters as well. as the increased pressure might unclog your injectors if thats the problem.


from what i can tell in the manual, i would think that if one of the injectors failed or the computer controling that injector failed, you would have an ecu light on in the dash. but i could be wrong.

compression test rules out the head gasket/head, which was my first thought. funny thing is, of all similar problems on this engine, #3 is always the culprit, so it'll be interesting to find out what it is.

is there any knocking down below? any noise at all?

The injectors are all fired together (ie. fuel injection system is very primative and not sequential), so if the other injectors are firing then your ECU is most likely OK. You could try putting a test light onto the plug of the injector from the problem cylinder to see if there's a wiring loom problem. You could also swap the injectors around and see if the fault moves.

Have you swapped the spark plugs around too?

I have swapped the plugs around and it made no difference.

I'm sure that I can find somebody locally who can test and clean the injectors.

When I had a problem with my old car, a Nissan Sunny, which had a partially blocked injector, I sprayed some stuff into the intake manifold.

It killed the engine at first, but when it got going again it had black smoke pouring from the exhaust and from all the breathers. It ran like a new engine after that. I was thinking about trying it with this engine. Its called 10K boost over here.

Thanks again everybody for the help.

murcod wrote:The injectors are all fired together (ie. fuel injection system is very primative and not sequential), so if the other injectors are firing then your ECU is most likely OK. You could try putting a test light onto the plug of the injector from the problem cylinder to see if there's a wiring loom problem. You could also swap the injectors around and see if the fault moves.

Have you swapped the spark plugs around too?

There is a special light, called a NOID light for checking injectors, they plug straight into the inj harness. A LED testlight will work too, but i wouldnt rely on a globe style test light. As said , you have simultanious injection so if the other injectors are firing, the ecu should be okay. Have you done any other test for heak gasket/cracked head. Your simptoms match this perfectly. Try a TK test. A while ago i saw a subaru over here that was doing simillar things to yours, and we TK'd it, compression tested it and it came out within specs, but still overheated. After buggering round for ages, we found a pin-hole leak in the head gasket, that leaked only when the motor heated up (hence overheating) and when the motor was turned off hot the pressure in the cooling system foced coolant into the cylinder, till it cooled off. ThHis caused the rough running at startup. DO you deffinatley have spark at number 3 cylinder??? The injector cleaner you describe might be worth a try too.

Layto....

I definitley had a spark from the HT lead, and I have swapped all the plugs around.

I am fairly sure it is not the head gasket as I have done various checks to make sure.

The problem is now happening all the time. I only have to drive down the road and it starts again. It doesn't start to overheat for about 25-30 mins. When it does it reaches 3/4 on the gauge and stops.

When the problem first started, there was always unburnt fuel coming out of the exhaust when it was playing up. Now there is none whatsoever.

I also noticed the engine runs much smoother when the revs are above 1600. As soon as it drops below 1600, it stops firing and makes the whole car vibrate, and then the temp starts to go up.

By the way, whats a TK test?

Thanks

TK test is a chemical analysis for exhaust gas in the cooling system. Its like a small vented tube that holds a certain chemical. When a small diaphram is pumped , it draws air in from round the open radiator neck and through the vents. The chemical changes color if there is any exhaust gas present.

Layto....

I think that the problem is the fuel injector. When the engine is running rough, I can disconnect the injector cable, and it makes no difference whatsoever.

Also, when I started it this morning, it seemed to be flooded, so I think the injector is constantly leaking fuel into the cylinder without atomising it, hence no detonation, as there is only air in the cylinder.

It would also explain the strong smell of petrol from the exhaust and the very poor fuel economy I am getting.

I am going to call the AA out tomorrow, and see what they think, and if it is the injector, send it off to be tested and ultrasonically cleaned, which I hope will solve the problem.

incidently... what injector cleaning cost in australia?

My work does them for about $40 per injector i think... I've never paid for it so i'm not toos sure

That is for removal, inspection, cleaning, new seals and the nozzles at the end of the injector, and putting them back into your car.

It's cheaper if you take them out yourself and just give them the injectors.

The AA man came and had a look, and he also thought the injector could have been the problem, so I took them all out.

They were all extremely dirty and its not surprising they weren't injecting properly. The injector in #3 cylinder was the worst, which explains the problem.

I have sent them off to be ultrasonically cleaned and tested, which costs around £12 each including delivery, which I don't think is bad.

They should be back by Tuesday, and I can get the car back on the road.

Thanks everybody for the help and advice.

Well, the head gasket finally went last week. I took it to a local mechanic and he found the gasket had gone on the third cylinder. This also caused some corrosion on the head, so it was cleaned, welded up and machined down, which saved having to get a new head.

The whole job of changing the gasket, repairing the head and re-seating the valves etc came to £200 (AU$500), so I am well pleased.

I've got to take it on a 150 mile trip next week, so I'm glad its all finally sorted.

Thanks for the advice.

Did that price include the mechanic doing it all?! A bargain if it did.

Yes, that was the whole price. The mechanic I took it to is a small one man business and relys on word of mouth, and obviously at prices like that, its not difficult to get work.

On my sisters Rover 820, he found a gearbox at a scrappy and changed the old one, all for £75($200), and he changed my clutch in my Nissan for £40($100).

It took him about a week to do the head, but for that sort of money, who cares!

im having the exact same problem on my feroza

it would run fine when cold, then splutter when it got warm.

the mechanic did the radiator test thing and said there was oil/exhaust gasses getting into the radiator, which means a head problem.

he said because the engine has 300,000ks its probably not worth just doing the head only..

he put chemi-weld into it. now it runs pretty hot and it idles between 1300 and 2500 sometimes pulsing up and down..

the heat gets to 2/3 and goes back to half way, but it hasnt seemed to completely cook yet.

im currently considering swapping in a low kms jap applause engine.. anyone know of any good places to get one of these in perth, wa? apparently i can get one between 1100 and 1500... even if any of you know of any good places over east to get the engine, that would be great.

cheers,

paul