Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ok fellas, your going to need to stick with me on this one...its a bit left feild(i think)

ok, thinking of what to upgrade to from my fully hektik 1981 nissan pulsar im tossing up between a VS commonewhore or something with a bit more offroad prowess.
now, i like to drive fast so this eliminates 99% of most 4wds and puts the "lifted" 4by way outta the question.
what i was thinking was take some 4wd ute, and turn it into something that wouldnt look outta place racing through the deserts of baja.
this also suits the offroad terrain that i would most likely be seeing as im in a more dune/flat, wide trail area and dont see much rocky, narrow trails where big articulation is needed.

now the ideas...
im thinking IFS, solid axle rear. widen the front with customs arms and rear with a wider axle. air lockers for a bit of compensaation for less articulation. custom front shock towers with long travel shocks. upgrade the brakes. 4link and coil suspension rear. holden ecotec motor OR RB25det OR IJZ, could even go with a holden 253. transmission is up in the air at the moment.
body work will be left stock, apart from nessecary fender flairs for rego. roll cage inside, cage over the ute.
gearing, driveshafts and tcase are all dependant upon which model of car i choose.

this will be all done by my self with the help of mates and some connections i have in the auto industry.

now, your help is needed. what vehicle do you think fits the bill for this build, ovbiosly im not made of money so the older the ute cheaper it will be? do you see any problems with the plans? do you see any legal implications? are there good artists out there who could put this to paper i n the form of a sketch?

cheers, ned

Mitsubishi L200 ute - old and cheap. Upgrade front diff and CVs from the V6 Pajero. Maybe GQ rear for your extra track, not sure about diff ratios. Either work a 2.6 Astron (up to 300hp N/A) or drop in a GM V6.

My 2c,

Scott

Maybe Rodeo or Courier/Bravo. As these to are both sold in the US so some parts and maybe design help can be found overseas. These are also relatively low already. So if they have the power. High speed stability should be good.

Since your going to launch this thing I would go for Hydro bumpstops, with some good shocks. Some of the Fox Racing and King shocks come with internal bump stops. So no need for extra bumpstops.
If going for expensive 3 tube bypasss shocks. Match them for the wheel travel and ride hieght you go with. Or theres no point getting 3 tube shocks at $1400 each.

ok, awesome start guys

now, what year rodeos am i aiming for?
is a dual shock setup needed or should one 3 tube bypass shock on each corner be suffucient?
whats the 2.6 astron you mentioned? whats it out of?

ned wrote:ok, awesome start guys

now, what year rodeos am i aiming for?
is a dual shock setup needed or should one 3 tube bypass shock on each corner be suffucient?
whats the 2.6 astron you mentioned? whats it out of?

It's the old Sigma/Magna/early Pajero motor. Four cylinder, alloy head, designed as a light truck motor. You see the old sh!tboxes rattling around blowing blue smoke because they're hard to kill. Thought it might be easier than a V6 conversion, but you're planning some pretty serious work anyway - go the GM V6.

Cheers,

Scott

aka 3.8l holden motor???

oh i know the astron, my bush rig sigma has one. i knew i had heard the name somewhere.

hmm, it seems L200 are fairly rare...unless i find local (VERY LIKELY, im in a rural town) but, can you get them with well-bodies?

One thing you could do is actually buy a dune racer and get all the parts that you want off it and put it into a shitbox hilux / rodeo / courier ute. They have some awsome suspension setups and drivelines. Having said this you have a conflict of interest and you haven't really done any research on this other than read a couple of magazines and posted on here. At least that is how it is coming across. You say you're not made of money but you didn't even balk at the idea of paying $1400 for each shock setup. There are lots of little tricks to save money and doing the work yourself is a good way of doing this. However the parts alone to do what you are talking about properly will be in the tens of thousands. If you look at some of the challenge class rigs competing in competitions like Outback Challenge you'll find that these trucks are leaning more towards sitting lower but still having long suspension travel. You'll also find a couple of these trucks that could easily jump over to ralley cross events like you are talking about and still be reasonably competitive. Take Cass Jone's truck. It climbs obstacles that most people would have a second thought about winching and he can still scream across open ground at well in excess of 100km/h. You need to have a bit more of a think about exactly what you want to do and then look at the legal limitations. Once you've done this then research how to best make this work and choose wisely about what to compromise.
My 2 c

Why not a subaru brumby? IFS all round so it would be good for dune type stuff, and you can just manage to squeeze a WRX motor into one. SOunds like it would be perfect for what you want to do.

yes, your right...this is a plan hatched from nothing more than idle day dreams while at tafe.
by the comment about money, i meant it dosent have to be in that good condidtion as most of it will be replaced hence a vehicle of lower price can be used. the reason i dont have a problem with that price cause i know what things like high spec shocks are worth and i know what this is going to cost and i think

i want it sitting lowish and i specifically mentioned running custom shock towers for long travel shocks without adding extra height.

please explain what you meant by buying a pre made dune racer and then raping it for parts? do you mean a sand rail?

ive searched for cass jones, challenge class and rally cross and have not come up with anything. is there a race comp with these type of vehilces?
i know they do things like outback challenge, but not for anything else?

also, the reason i posted on here is to get information. if i was full bottle on this particular truck, i wouldnt be posting.

yes, i have considered the brumby, but i would prefer something bigger. i can pick one up for very cheap, maybe even free.
what does anyone else think of the brumby, is to much work to make it as offroad capable as a standard rodeo or the like?

I agree with isuzurover on the brumbie. It may not be big enough for you but its the closest thing to what your describing. I've seen a few with the wrx motors and they do rocket along (real sleepers on the street). To build a cheap hilux or rodeo to handle as well as the brumbie at high speeds would cost heaps IMO. I have a mate who used a brumbie on the beach all the time to get to his fav fishing spot (about 12ks down the beach). He kept using it till it rusted out and only replaced it with a cruiser because he wanted to do some touring. He claimed to easily cruise along at 60-80ks along the beach and in a full size 4wd its no easy task along this particular stretch of beach unless you risk it on the hard stuff below the high tide mark. If dunes and flat trails are your terrain I would definately get the brumbie over a the rodeos or luxs.

As above - a stock brumby may not be as capable (stock for stock) as a rodeo, L200 or hilux, but with light and powerful with IFS all round it will out handle all of them by miles (especially the all-leaf hilux). Like you said it will probably also be cheaper.

With a the dual range t-case, 3.9:1 diffs and 14" rims (with larger tyres and cut guards) they are pretty capable for what they are. There are also 3 options for turbo motors to shoehorn in - L series RX turbo (EA82T), liberty RS turbo, and WRX engine. The EA82T engines are a bit old now but can be found for a few hundred $ as jap imports.

All the other utes that have been mention have really bad handling in the rear end from stock and heaps of oversteer. The brumby is the opposite - it is more likely to understeer, but with a good tyre/suspension setup it can be setup to have neutral handling.

Look up the Gasdash, gascoyn(sp) junction offroad race held every year just outside canarvon.

Nic

I would go for an earlier IFS Hilux, easily converted to V6 or V8, and in the states, they are commonly used for Baja racing, so all components you need for that style of use are available off the shelf, including kits to change the front from tosion bar to long travel coilover, and coilover conversions for the rear.

Here are some pictures of US Desert Trucks being built, this shit is off the hook, i have 100's more photos. Good for inspiration.

wow some serious money in those last trucks

These guys make some nice stuff.

Also been to Donohoe racings shop, and they do some great outside the square projects and products as well.



surfing the net will give you some idea of what you may require, but if I came from a similar bitumen, rally, background, and wanted a truck lifted, that drove nice, and handled, and though its still a work in progress, and on the bitumen a god commodore may get away, I wont be seeing any commodores in the rear view mirror once the tyres are getting dirty.

Is that 9 Hella Predator Lights i see on that rig ats4x4?

Kinda looks like a bat mobile

Bubs, i can see where u go the inspiration for your B260 from

+dj_hansen+ wrote:Is that 9 Hella Predator Lights i see on that rig ats4x4?

Kinda looks like a bat mobile

Bubs, i can see where u go the inspiration for your B260 from

The B260 had started before i got on to the desert racing sites.

Why not stick to 2WD, more so VW

A Baja Beetle would suit you. Plenty of go fast bits available for VW's aswell. They are very light, so don't take much to get them moving quickly, even with a worked 1600 Twin Port they get moving quite well.

Here ya go

http://www.offroadracing.com.au/classif ... navara.htm

http://www.offroadracing.com.au/directo ... s4sale.htm

http://www.offroadracing.com.au/classifieds/des713.htm

Plenty of toys here, Dunno if you could register any of them though.

http://www.offroadracing.com.au/compvehicles.htm

ok, so im thinking 86+ hilux with IFS.

for the rear solid axle, to get more suspension travel im going steal some ideas from the minitruck guys and C-notch the chassis. this means the axle will have another 8inches of up travel after the axle has travlled past the standard chassis placement...so that would total around 12 or more inches of travel in the rear. totally illegal but can be concealed.

for the front, would you reccomend building my own custom upper and lower arms and mounts or buying a set from a company like Downey or fabtech?

now, ovbiously...i dont know much about these types of trucks. does anyone have any website/companies that can help with info or parts?

yeap c-notch

ok, lets talk 2wd. i want a ute to carry my motobikes...but why not a 2wd hilux or rodeo?

i know they race 2wd...but how succesful are they in boggy sand?

EDIT: wow thats an even better C-notch than i was talking about. that one can be concealed easily. i was talking about cutting a 8 inch long section of the chassis and welding in two c-shape peices of flat steel...so the chassis has a big hump in it. this is harder to conceal...but gains more travel.

Websites.........
http://www.desertrides.com/
http://www.dezertrangers.com/
http://www.race-dezert.com/
The forum pages on these are a wealth of information. Keep in mind that these are American sites, so that the vehicles are similar to our own.
Enjoy.

yeah but with those c-notches the bed-cage holds the rear end together

yeap, desertrangers is the site i always surf

why would you start with a body / chassis. the only two things i hate about my truck is the body / chassis. go full tube and clip on glass. bodys rust, bend and compromise suspension design big time. any off road racer is built around the suspension not to suit an adapted body from a vehicle completely devorced from the class of racing / object of build. also building from scratch is far easier to get road rego'd 100% leagally only a few grand too. just make sure you meet adr's and use a motor newer than 97

cheers bru

I race in class 8 in the off road racing scene. Speeds are very high and suspension is set up to suit. The landy often sees 170km/hour off road and thats slow compared to the top buggies.

Check this WA site out and yes very few are registered. I think mines one of about 4 in WA that are registered you just need to be careful on the build however the police at least in WA dont like wild suspension set ups.

http://www.offroadoz.net.au/

tube and clip on glass makes it glaringly obvious to authorities that this vehicle is used for something other than driving on the road and would need modifications to handle it.

how wild is your suspension discokid?

ok, well ive done a bit of research and all that and have come up with a plan.

stage 1: buy hilux IFS
stage 2: EBS 13" or EBS 18" travel coilover front suspensions
stage 3: tray and cab cage
stage 4: 62" deaver leave springs with a 12" shock to gain 14" of travel and keep the shock under the bed. can go 14" shock for 18" of travel but the shock will stick up into the bed.
stage 5(if needed): holden 253 conversion.

thats just outlining the major mods needed. of course there will be gusseting, panel work and stuff like that. im aiming for to be finished stage 4 in a year(dependant of when i purchase the hilux)