Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i recently bought a car with a welded front diff. now im new to 4wding so please excuse me.

but the mechanic said that i cant drive in 4wd for long periods. he said "only when you need it". so does this mean that i dont engage 4wd on the beach until i get bogged?

can someone enlighten me on what/when i would engage 4WD?

thanks

its ok just dont drive with it locked in on hard suface's like the road

The beach would be ok... although if you unlock one side only, you will still have drive to the other side.

If you are 4x4ing on harder surfaces leave one unlocked or you will break CVs all the time.
You will also tend to go straight ahead through corners... lol

You can feel the restriction on the steering if you have them locked in when you shouldnt.

Just lock them both in when you come to a harder spot.

What car is it btw?

Id be buying a new front diff, being welded it will make it a pig of a thing to try and turn, and on a slippery surface it would just be scarey

It will only be hard to turn if both are left locked in... it would be great on a slippery surface due to both wheels providing traction.

Why would it be 'scary' Grinch??

If lockers aren't available, a welded diff can be a great addition to your 4x4. You just need to know when to lock/unlock your hubs depending on the use at the time. It can be almost the same as an air-locker, but instead of a switch, you gotta get out and fiddle with your hubs... lol
But this of course means stopping the car.. which is where a 'real' locker shines

Air lockers are for lazy people (only cause they dont make them for mine..lol)

jigga wrote:i recently bought a car with a welded front diff. now im new to 4wding so please excuse me.

but the mechanic said that i cant drive in 4wd for long periods. he said "only when you need it". so does this mean that i dont engage 4wd on the beach until i get bogged?

can someone enlighten me on what/when i would engage 4WD?

thanks

Well if it has a welded diff it is not roadworthy and really not all that safe
I would be replacing the diff - was it a private sale or a dealer ?

Tom

RaginRover wrote: Well if it has a welded diff it is not roadworthy and really not all that safe
I would be replacing the diff - was it a private sale or a dealer ?
Tom

I've never heard of someone getting into strife for a welded front... Would be very hard for authorities to spot.

Safety concerns would be minimal, the welded diff only comes into play when you are 4x4ing. (With hubs locked)

So there would be absolutely no negative effect or compromise in safety when on-road driving.

HotFourOk wrote:

RaginRover wrote: Well if it has a welded diff it is not roadworthy and really not all that safe
I would be replacing the diff - was it a private sale or a dealer ?
Tom

I've never heard of someone getting into strife for a welded front... Would be very hard for authorities to spot.

Safety concerns would be minimal, the welded diff only comes into play when you are 4x4ing. (With hubs locked)

So there would be absolutely no negative effect or compromise in safety when on-road driving.

I'm tending to agree here, you only risk damage if you use it on hard surfaces with both front hubs locked. Even then I would only worry if it's a large heavy 4WD, as if it is a smaller lighter vehicle the tyres will just chirp (a lot) and nothing is likely to break even on asphalt.

So then it's just a question of whether you find it too hard to steer off-road and if you find it driveable, good for you - stick with it. It definitely has an upside as far as traction goes.

That's my point, although no part time 4wd should EVER be engaged on a high traction surface such as asphalt.

You can leave one wheel's hub locked in and still have drive to this wheel when in 4x4 mode (you would have no drive without locked diff) and the wheel which can turn freely allows corners to be negotiated by changing its speed in relation to the other wheel.

When a harder section is about to be negotiated, hop out and lock the one (or both) hubs in. The only downfall may be a section which requires maximum traction and has tight corners... but this is not often come across. If it is, the surface often allows the wheels to slip if cornering is needed. Eg, Going through mud.. But with a high traction surface such as some rocks sections you may need to decide what to do at the time.

jigga wrote:i recently bought a car with a welded front diff. now im new to 4wding so please excuse me.

but the mechanic said that i cant drive in 4wd for long periods. he said "only when you need it". so does this mean that i dont engage 4wd on the beach until i get bogged?

can someone enlighten me on what/when i would engage 4WD?

thanks

what sort of vehicle is it ?
Where will it be driven ??

thank you for your help.

so what your saying is, when i get to the beach (or something similar) hop and and lock one hub (leaving the other unlocked). then i can coast along the beach. and only if i get into a bit of a tight spot will i lock the other hub?

The vehicle is a bundera and will be used for maily mild-med 4x4 and camping.

thanks

I would recomend that you experiment a bit. If it is still drivable with both hubs locked then do that. (wouldnt recomend for high speed stuff.) if you feel your your bench pressing the steering wheel the whole time and steering is difficult then leave one unlocked.

jigga wrote:thank you for your help.

so what your saying is, when i get to the beach (or something similar) hop and and lock one hub (leaving the other unlocked). then i can coast along the beach. and only if i get into a bit of a tight spot will i lock the other hub?

The vehicle is a bundera and will be used for maily mild-med 4x4 and camping.

thanks

yep, thats how its done. But it will pull like a mule to one side as all drive is on one axle and none to the other. Still worth it i reckon

Cheers

for what you want to use the vehicle for it would be far better just to get a second hand open diff from the wreckers. This way you dont have to worry about it.

I dont think youl be doing the sort of driving that will require a locked diff.

HotFourOk wrote:It will only be hard to turn if both are left locked in... it would be great on a slippery surface due to both wheels providing traction.

Why would it be 'scary' Grinch??

If lockers aren't available, a welded diff can be a great addition to your 4x4. You just need to know when to lock/unlock your hubs depending on the use at the time. It can be almost the same as an air-locker, but instead of a switch, you gotta get out and fiddle with your hubs... lol
But this of course means stopping the car.. which is where a 'real' locker shines

Air lockers are for lazy people (only cause they dont make them for mine..lol)

A welded diff could get a novice 4x4 driver in a lot of trouble in the wrong place, for example I've used 4wd on some dirt roads when doing som spirited driving, trying the same with a welded front diff could be hairy, even worse with one hub unlocked.

It will also strain front driveline components and wear front tyres faster. Sand should be ok, but steering will be heavier.

For a new 4x4 driver, try it for a couple of trips, buy another standard or LSD diff centre and either sell the welded one or reinstall it when you feel you are doing stuff you need it for.

thank you for you help. you mentioned to not use it at high speeds. what sort of speeds are we talking about?

also, how much (approx.) would a couple of 80 series diffs be from the wreckers?

thanks again.

Rainbow Warrior wrote:It will also strain front driveline components and wear front tyres faster.

Wear should be minimal as it is only affected when 4x4ing.

The strain could be evident, although with a welded diff you often take certain areas easier.... I know mates who crawl through sections now with a locker, wheras with an open diff they had to rely on momentum to get them through, which is more likely to break components.

But ask The Rocky' he broke both his CVs with his welded diff.

It also comes down to a 'novice' driver not getting into those hairy situations also. But as said numerous times on here, you should learn to drive unlocked first

jigga wrote:thank you for you help. you mentioned to not use it at high speeds. what sort of speeds are we talking about?

also, how much (approx.) would a couple of 80 series diffs be from the wreckers?

thanks again.

anywhere from $600 to $2k depending on wether you get a good deal and what condition thier in. For a good set id say about $1200.

A welded front diff is going to be more trouble than it is worth. In the sand, it will make the car much harder to drive as it will steer poorly when driven at speed, which is a requirement some of the time in sand when you need some momentum

At low speed in turns, both tyres turning together will make one tyre dig as it drags or overspeeds the other and it make turns hard work.

Even a rear locker (if used at the wrong time) can make a car struggle in the sand.

Getting in and out of the car all day locking and unlocking hubs is a PITA.

just my 2c worth.

Steve.

HotFourOk wrote:

Rainbow Warrior wrote:It will also strain front driveline components and wear front tyres faster.

Wear should be minimal as it is only affected when 4x4ing.

The strain could be evident, although with a welded diff you often take certain areas easier.... I know mates who crawl through sections now with a locker, wheras with an open diff they had to rely on momentum to get them through, which is more likely to break components.

But ask The Rocky' he broke both his CVs with his welded diff.

It also comes down to a 'novice' driver not getting into those hairy situations also. But as said numerous times on here, you should learn to drive unlocked first

jigga wrote:thank you for you help. you mentioned to not use it at high speeds. what sort of speeds are we talking about?

also, how much (approx.) would a couple of 80 series diffs be from the wreckers?

thanks again.

I wouldnt be wanting to do much over 20kms an hour with it locked right up. try it out. you will soon discover what sort of speeds feel safe.

thanks again

Say if you had welded front and had the left hub unlocked. on a left hand corner on mud would it still understeer terribly?

If your gonna go looking for 80 series diffs. Perhaps consider hunting around for some from under a sahara 80series. Some (all?) of these had front and rear selectable difflocks. I have seen a set front and rear for sale on here before for $2000. Fairly rare but would be worth the wait.

JemmyBubbles wrote:If your gonna go looking for 80 series diffs. Perhaps consider hunting around for some from under a sahara 80series. Some (all?) of these had front and rear selectable difflocks. I have seen a set front and rear for sale on here before for $2000. Fairly rare but would be worth the wait.

but in saying that, you could get airlockers for about $2,800 with a compressor and warranty.

yeah, plus the cost of the diffs though..

I certainly agree, lockers are heaps better. but will would nearly$4200 by the time i found diffs and had lockers put in.

Put the welded diff in the back, and drive it, driving on a welded back isn't that bad and its great fun in the wet(dry to if ya got horsies) most people say don't do it, haven't driven on welded diffs before

cloughy wrote:Put the welded diff in the back, and drive it, driving on a welded back isn't that bad and its great fun in the wet(dry to if ya got horsies) most people say don't do it, haven't driven on welded diffs before

Gives you great tyre wear if it's your daily driver too.........NOT!