Outer Limits 4x4 Board

With the SAS not far off and wanting to use coils on my 4Runner (coil rear) I can't avoid the fact that the leaf SAS will be so much easier.

What i'm wondering, is can leaves be remotely comfortable and driveable on the road, whilst still having angry flex off road? My main concern is having the cushy rear end with a bouncy harsh front if I used leaves.... I know the pro leave guys will say yes, but in general is there such a thing as a comfortable leaf truck?

ps.. I know leaves rule off road unless you spend big bucks on coils. But i love the flex from the rear end in mine, and the fact you almost can't feel it over the rough stuff as it's so smooth....

it is possible but will take quite a bit of playing around with packs.

Coils will always be more comfortable IMO

-Nemesis- wrote:With the SAS not far off and wanting to use coils on my 4Runner (coil rear) I can't avoid the fact that the leaf SAS will be so much easier.

What i'm wondering, is can leaves be remotely comfortable and driveable on the road, whilst still having angry flex off road? My main concern is having the cushy rear end with a bouncy harsh front if I used leaves.... I know the pro leave guys will say yes, but in general is there such a thing as a comfortable leaf truck?

If your going an SAS i would spend the extra and get coils. Compared to coils no there isn't such thing as a comfy leave sprung 4b (especially a hilux).

Gribble wrote:Compared to coils no there isn't such thing as a comfy leave sprung 4b (especially a hilux).

Then you need to come for a ride in my hilux, it is smoother then my 80 series in most places. It also flex way past my 80. However it has taken me almost 9 years and loads of different setups to get it write.

But if I was doing a sas I wouldn`t bother with leaves. With coils it is alot easier to change spring rates and hight if you want to later on. It also gets rid of any axle wrap. the diff moves forward and away from the fire wall on compression so it make the fitting of larger tyres easier aswell as the need for long travel slip yokes in front tail shaft less likely. So in the long run doing coils first up will more often then not work cheaper and easier. I know it would have for mine and I`m happy with my front leaf springs, for now and it was solid front from the factory.

wouldnt using a bundy front be just as easy if not easier to set up than leaves?
besides the extra cost of getting the bundy parts that is

Guts wrote:

Gribble wrote:Compared to coils no there isn't such thing as a comfy leave sprung 4b (especially a hilux).

Then you need to come for a ride in my hilux, it is smoother then my 80 series in most places. It also flex way past my 80. However it has taken me almost 9 years and loads of different setups to get it write.
.

X2... guts lux is soft and flexy... and i hate lux's

and bundy fronts don't flex do they?

So you guys are leaning me back to plan A, which leads to another question.

I was going to use a Bundy front. But if i'm going to all that trouble to cut out the IFS and fabricate mounts for the Bundy front, would it be much more involved to use like a GQ or 80 diff? (Not counting the back as I know that will need matching...)

I`d do an 80 front, complete with 80 arms etc. If you want heeps of flex later you can then do a different link setup. But with the 80 front you get the extra width that the bundy front will not give. Trust me width is your friend. Then you can run wheel spacers on the rear untill the $$$$$ allow you to go 80 series rear aswell.

You allready have 1 air lock don`t you? If so its more then likely an RD23, these are the same for the front of an 80. So then you`d only have to buy 1 lock later on which would be an RD33 for the rear of an 80.

Oh and Nissan bits in a toyota, it just isn`t write

So you reckon the 80 should slot in fairly well? Obviously the coil seats will need moving etc..... I think i'd just use all the original 80 geometry.

I didn't think about the wheel spacer thing. I wonder what engineering will be like with a wider diff up front cos i'm sure wheel spacers aren't legal on road are they?

80 diffs all the way.

must admit i gots 80 diffs on there way 4 my bundy
also got a gq chassis for 50 bucs to cut all the 4 link mounts off of

nice n cheap factory look and use either 80 or gq rear arms

ill be using my factory bundy front mounts tho with gq dff mounts and front arms as they are same length as bundy ones but suit the bigger diff better, plus i got a snapped gq diff for free to cut up

don`t forget about what hight your going,leaves are good for 4" and up and coils you can go down and 1inch or 2 or up

If you go 80 series front just remember that when you come to match the rear the 80 series rear pumkin is slightly offset.Bit tricky in a 4runner with
fuel tank and offset tailshafts.

If you go GQ/GU front the rear GQ/GU pumkins centered.But you may have problems with front pumpkin clearance as the diff is a proper diff , nice and big!



Cheers
Dazza

go the cruiser diffs, a little bit of work to fit, but heaps better then bundy, flexs well andfrom memory you can use most of the stuff to mount it on to the rinner, yes wheel spacers are illegal.....but only if your caught (though i wouldnt recomend anything illegal)

-Nemesis- wrote:So you reckon the 80 should slot in fairly well? Obviously the coil seats will need moving etc..... I think i'd just use all the original 80 geometry.

I didn't think about the wheel spacer thing. I wonder what engineering will be like with a wider diff up front cos i'm sure wheel spacers aren't legal on road are they?

You would only run wheel spacers on the rear if money was short and the rear diff wasn`t getting replaced at the same time. If this was the case you also wouldn`t get the front engineered at time of fitting and then the rear done 12 months later. You`d just get both front and rear engineered at the same time. So in short the wheel spacers would only be a temp thing.

As for front diff strength, my brother is running an 80 front under his 40 which runs f n r locks 36`s and a 383 chev, hasn`t broken a front diff or CV yet and yes it gets used and abused.

Any ideas for the best place to track down the full 80 series getup around Sydney? And a suggested value? Including arms and steering etc?

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... ex.php?c=7

All I can say about price is don`t be in a hurry and one will come up at the correct price. Have heard of complete front n rear 100 series ones going for approx $1000. (100 series are only 5 stud)

bought 2 diffs for 200 minus a few bits

and got the parts to complete for another 150

still waiting 4 them to arrive tho so i can start putting em in


another thought is you could run a bundera transfer to counter the offset rear if this became an issue as they came with g52 and r151 ...... im assuming you run a r151

Coils are sweet and if done right flex sweeter

Hales231271 wrote:If you go 80 series front just remember that when you come to match the rear the 80 series rear pumkin is slightly offset.Bit tricky in a 4runner with
fuel tank and offset tailshafts.


Cheers
Dazza

Probably a stupid question but............ Can you flip a diff, as in swap it so the right becomes the left and the pumpkin is then on the other side? Obviously you'd have to mirror the the mounts etc to where they used to be. But can the diff run upside down like that, it will still rotate the same way right? Which would solve the fuel tank problems etc...

For all the work that is involved, why not just get an 80

there is a fellow who did this with a bundy diff in the mitsu section
but he cut the tubes off and swapped them. basically putting the pumpkin on the lhs

what diff are your thinking ......... dana ?

That sounds a tad simpler!

No just 80 series on a Gen 2 4Runner. The standard offset for the 80 pumpkin is on the fuel tank side of the 4Runner.

im guessing that your rear muffler is on the other side then?

if u were to move it would there be enough room to relocate the tank

otherwise hate to say it but mab gq rear and 80 front
or even gq both ends least then you will have a centre pumpkin rear

if you havent moved things like tanks and fillers and changes tx etc my guess is itd be alot easier to get engineered

But can the diff run upside down like that, it will still rotate the same way right?

No.

Why don't you just try and source a 79 series front end??
Basically the same as an 80 but a track width that matches your rear.
Don't have to touch your rear end.Seems lot easier.


I would have liked to do a front 79 series (couldn't find one at the time)fitted with a GQ/GU HP center.
A rear 80 series cut down with "pumpkin" centered.
May be limited with ratios to match but??

Cheers
Dazza

I got 80 diffs put under a ln106 dual cab lux, and there is a lot involved (read $10 000 so far, leaf springs all round), that's why it has sat in shed for 2 years. With the rear, you would have to move fuel tank, exhaust. If you have the r series gbox then bolting up a bundy extension housing and tcase is a possibilty ($750ish) however it makes the drivetrain much shorter, so there is new front and rear shafts to be made up ($500+ if you go for long slip joint).

I would go either 79 series front end and leave the rear as is, or gq front and rear. The GQ's have the bonus of gearing from 3.9 to 4.6 which is
handy for engine conversions/ tyre diameter increases (with the 80 diffs it's 4.1 or 4.3 only). The extra width of these will make your truck look a bit noddy though.

Definetly put your effort into a coil front, it will be same if not less work than the leaves, and you won't need hi steer ($700+). I went leaves because no shop back then wanted to do the job with coils for less than $10k.

[/quote]

Probably a stupid question but............ Can you flip a diff, as in swap it so the right becomes the left and the pumpkin is then on the other side? Obviously you'd have to mirror the the mounts etc to where they used to be. But can the diff run upside down like that, it will still rotate the same way right? Which would solve the fuel tank problems etc...[/quote]

you would have 5 reverse and 1 forward gear

Hales231271 wrote:
Why don't you just try and source a 79 series front end??
Basically the same as an 80 but a track width that matches your rear.
Don't have to touch your rear end.Seems lot easier.

Cheers
Dazza

Because I had never thought of it before, and hence Outerlimits crew to the rescue for advice. I wonder how hard it is to source one of them?


ps... After thinking about the upside down diff the morning after posing I slapped myself. Ignore that one heheh....

-Nemesis- wrote:

Hales231271 wrote:
Why don't you just try and source a 79 series front end??
Basically the same as an 80 but a track width that matches your rear.
Don't have to touch your rear end.Seems lot easier.

Cheers
Dazza

Because I had never thought of it before, and hence Outerlimits crew to the rescue for advice. I wonder how hard it is to source one of them?


ps... After thinking about the upside down diff the morning after posing I slapped myself. Ignore that one heheh....

you could run any sort of diff in the rear en you want really, how bout a ford 9" or a dana 60

-Nemesis- wrote: I wonder how hard it is to source one of them?

MUD000 off this BB has a pair of 79 complete with ARB`s forsale, yes you would need a pair as 79 series are 5 stud just like 100 series.

So if you only want to swap just the front and leave the rear then what you need is late 75 series, they are still 6 stud and have a high pinion in the front. Or you could go early 75 and have the big centre like in the rear of cruisers.