Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Burnt out some more relays ( Hi-mount 6hp with 24v up its bum) on the Pirana Pursuit so started investigating for something better. I saw a set up using 6 relays that uses 4 relays for the "in" function , the extra 2 work in paralell with the the other "in" relays so they share the load and if one relay die's it will still keep working ( good redundency plan ) . The set up was i believe from the USA and used plastic coated relays for better moisture resistance . Im going to build up my own new set up, done some searching on the net and found some 200 amp continous rated relays that are made with Silver contacts ( best material for switching DC current ) so ordered myself 6 of them got a bit of a shock when i got the bill thou ( about $140 each relay ) but i own them now as they were a special order. What have other users done to overcome this issue with the s**t warn relays

Wally

You could have bought a single pack solenoid that quite a few of us use. I get mine from Dave Metcalfe (EXTREME MMM from this board ) for about $245. I've only heard of one getting burnt out and that was because they were running more than the 24V through it. If you want some testemonies then chat to Laurie Sternbeck and Kym Bolton etc. A lot easier to use, heaps cheaper, next to no voltage drop and more reliable.

Forgot to say that you only need the one relay

i used the col hershe ones. be sure to mount them lying down or they can lock on under extreme g-outs / bottoming out etc

bru21 wrote:i used the col hershe ones. be sure to mount them lying down or they can lock on under extreme g-outs / bottoming out etc

Yeah Ian (white GU ) found that out at outback challenge. I ended up giving him my spare single pack solenoid

Wally,

As Toughnut says these are the ducks guts – easy to wire up. I always carry a spare [have not needed it yet].



Cheers

Alby

I`m still using the standard warn relays. All I have done is mounted them in a water tight box. Haven`t had any problems yet and had this setup for about 7 years.

Guts wrote:I`m still using the standard warn relays. All I have done is mounted them in a water tight box. Haven`t had any problems yet and had this setup for about 7 years.

Are you running 12V or 24V?

yeah only 12

Toughnut is on the ball. I have yet to see one burn out yet but have seen plenty of the others burn out and destroy the motors aswell.

LudaCris

Are they a warn product.

I believe what kills the relays is stopping the winch under high loads. As DC motor's generate a fair arc until the distance becomes to large for the arc to continue and it stops. This oxidises the contacts and when too burnt will not make contact and no longer work. Silver is a excellent conductor of electricity and oxidises very little so is perfectly suited to switching DC power. I work in a steel plant and we have very large DC electric motors up to 10,000 HP and the contacts used in switching are always silver ( all precious metals are excellent i believe gold is even better as it does not oxidise but is $$$$$ ) When i removed my old relays a cut them open the contacts were badly burnt/melted from arcing and they were only 6 months old. The batteries i use pump out huge amps and this with 24v and really high loads something has to give so im giving the new relays i brought a go as i own them now.

Wally

This oxidises the contacts and when too burnt will not make contact and no longer work

I reckon they should start making contacts with a plating of Platnium!
But then they would not sell anymore solenoids as spares.

I am thinking a Molebneum/Platnium coating.
I'm sure I could be sputter it onto copper.

The ultimate would be to use Rhodium plating.Not cheap stuff but.

Makes me think!

Hey Wally reckon you could put the solenoids back together after your cut up????



Cheers
Dazza

80UTE wrote:I believe what kills the relays is stopping the winch under high loads. As DC motor's generate a fair arc until the distance becomes to large for the arc to continue and it stops. This oxidises the contacts and when too burnt will not make contact and no longer work. Silver is a excellent conductor of electricity and oxidises very little so is perfectly suited to switching DC power. I work in a steel plant and we have very large DC electric motors up to 10,000 HP and the contacts used in switching are always silver ( all precious metals are excellent i believe gold is even better as it does not oxidise but is $$$$$ ) When i removed my old relays a cut them open the contacts were badly burnt/melted from arcing and they were only 6 months old. The batteries i use pump out huge amps and this with 24v and really high loads something has to give so im giving the new relays i brought a go as i own them now.

Wally

The relays on Ian's GU came on when he slammed the front down as he was exiting the water at the prologue and again when he went nose first into a 6 meter washout. At the prologue just the in stuck on and nearly ripped his winch bar apart in the washout both in and out stuck on at the same time and fried the motor and nearly tore things apart

Anyone got a website with info on these babies?

beretta wrote:Anyone got a website with info on these babies?

If you mean the solenoid in the pick. They are manufactured by Albright in the UK, but there is no info on their website www.albright.co.uk

Has anybody tried a big capacitor across the relay contacts? Same principle as the condenser in a Kettering (points) ignition system - the energy in the motor windings charges the capacitor rather than arcing across the points.

Of course, all that energy needs to go somewhere the next time the contacts close. Maybe not such a hot idea?

Plan B: High power zener across the contacts? The voltage which normally produces the arc causes the Zener to conduct... Perhaps a 30V Zener - what's the highest power rating they come with?

Scott

Bush65 wrote:

beretta wrote:Anyone got a website with info on these babies?

If you mean the solenoid in the pick. They are manufactured by Albright in the UK, but there is no info on their website www.albright.co.uk

Thanks John, I've since found heaps of info on a few UK 4x4 sites, massive price variance between what they charge in the UK, then the US and here! Get em in the UK for about $140 Aussie (retail), bout $220 retail in the US and $240 here. Anyone heading to the UK soonish? I'm thinking the relos in law over there could be sending some my way!

beretta wrote:

Bush65 wrote:

beretta wrote:Anyone got a website with info on these babies?

If you mean the solenoid in the pick. They are manufactured by Albright in the UK, but there is no info on their website www.albright.co.uk

Thanks John, I've since found heaps of info on a few UK 4x4 sites, massive price variance between what they charge in the UK, then the US and here! Get em in the UK for about $140 Aussie (retail), bout $220 retail in the US and $240 here. Anyone heading to the UK soonish? I'm thinking the relos in law over there could be sending some my way!

I had a look on mine which I bought from the UK.
The sticker on the 12V version says:

Goodwinch Ltd
Type: DC88-394PL
Voltage: 12

The sticker on the 24V version says:

Goodwinch Ltd
Type: DC88-378PL
Voltage: 24

Goodwinch is David Boyer's company, which manufactures/sells winches. Since I did not buy these from him, I might suppose that he got Albright to make them as a special line.

I don't remember what they cost me to bring out, as they were included in an order for other parts.

toughnut wrote:

bru21 wrote:i used the col hershe ones. be sure to mount them lying down or they can lock on under extreme g-outs / bottoming out etc

Yeah Ian (white GU ) found that out at outback challenge. I ended up giving him my spare single pack solenoid

So when you guys say laying down, do you mean the post pointing verticle or horizontal? I'm thinking you mean horizontal, but want to be sure.

thanks for the help, Paul

You can also get the albright type solinoids as pictured above from Superwinch in Minto for $200 I picked one up a few weeks ago. That is the 12v version not sure about 24v.

stephen wrote:You can also get the albright type solinoids as pictured above from Superwinch in Minto for $200 I picked one up a few weeks ago. That is the 12v version not sure about 24v.

Okay so are you just running one for 12v?

You can run either 12 or 24V for the winch but the switching part of the solenoid is only 12V.

beretta wrote:

toughnut wrote:

bru21 wrote:i used the col hershe ones. be sure to mount them lying down or they can lock on under extreme g-outs / bottoming out etc

Yeah Ian (white GU ) found that out at outback challenge. I ended up giving him my spare single pack solenoid

So when you guys say laying down, do you mean the post pointing verticle or horizontal? I'm thinking you mean horizontal, but want to be sure.

thanks for the help, Paul

Quote from the instruction sheet:

The contactor can be mounted either horizontally or vertically. If mounted vertically the contact studs must point upwards.

end quote.

Now it is possible that some cases may be more severe as Bru21 said. So I would take his advice and mount horizontally.

Yeah, The Col Hershe solenoids are great as they don't have a great voltage drop because the spring inside is slightly softer than the normal WARN items. In a normal vehicle they are fine and you wont notice any problems most of the time; however, when you have a comp truck getting the nose up to 3 meters in the air and then smashing back down to earth you can imagine the forces this places on the solenoids if they are mounted upright with the posts vertical and they lock themselves on both in and out at the same time.

beretta wrote:

Bush65 wrote:

beretta wrote:Anyone got a website with info on these babies?

If you mean the solenoid in the pick. They are manufactured by Albright in the UK, but there is no info on their website www.albright.co.uk

Thanks John, I've since found heaps of info on a few UK 4x4 sites, massive price variance between what they charge in the UK, then the US and here! Get em in the UK for about $140 Aussie (retail), bout $220 retail in the US and $240 here. Anyone heading to the UK soonish? I'm thinking the relos in law over there could be sending some my way!

Hey Beretta, where abouts in the UK did you get the $140 price from?

toughnut wrote:Yeah, The Col Hershe solenoids are great as they don't have a great voltage drop because the spring inside is slightly softer than the normal WARN items. In a normal vehicle they are fine and you wont notice any problems most of the time; however, when you have a comp truck getting the nose up to 3 meters in the air and then smashing back down to earth you can imagine the forces this places on the solenoids if they are mounted upright with the posts vertical and they lock themselves on both in and out at the same time.

So how have you got them set up? Are you just running one or have you got them wired up like a traditional solenoid pack? We're just wanting to run 12v just want to know how to set it up.

thanks for the help people!

MKPatrolGuy wrote:

beretta wrote:

Bush65 wrote:

beretta wrote:Anyone got a website with info on these babies?

If you mean the solenoid in the pick. They are manufactured by Albright in the UK, but there is no info on their website www.albright.co.uk

Thanks John, I've since found heaps of info on a few UK 4x4 sites, massive price variance between what they charge in the UK, then the US and here! Get em in the UK for about $140 Aussie (retail), bout $220 retail in the US and $240 here. Anyone heading to the UK soonish? I'm thinking the relos in law over there could be sending some my way!

Hey Beretta, where abouts in the UK did you get the $140 price from?

Devon 4x4, so retail pricing, would do much better direct I guess. looking into this and have found out how to get them over here a lot cheaper. Anyone interested?

interested

Interested