in the near future when i get my 7' lift i'll in the market for some 37' tyres
now i don't know much about any of these tyres apart from the fact they are the meenest tyres u can get.
they will only be used offroad and getting there, and the terain i mainly drive is hill climbs like gravel and sticky mud shit with a lil bit of rockcrawling now and then.
so what are ur opinions on these tyres what would best suite my needs
oh and i'm chasing 12.5 to 14' wide varients.
any info would be apreciated
ps. i have searched this wasn't very helpfull
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yes another comparo tsl's vs boggers vs claws
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yes another comparo tsl's vs boggers vs claws
kaylee 2004 hdj78 RV. 33 mickey atz's, winchbar, 3i lift, 3i exhoust, spoties, roofracks and ufh. pimped interior .
86 lwb zook wt soa, 33's, locked, bard up, prety lights. monster tacho:/
86 lwb zook wt soa, 33's, locked, bard up, prety lights. monster tacho:/
well you have seen my claws in action and that time i had it in 2wd all day and didnt get stuck once also ran 35psi, with the body lift the shifter was hitting the floor pan and stoping me select 4wd
now i have it in 4wd it goes alot of places
never had any other tyre so cant compare but i do love them
now i have it in 4wd it goes alot of places
never had any other tyre so cant compare but i do love them
60 series cruiser, GU patrol
Known2,
I have never run Boggers, and don't think that (cool as they are) they are really an option for a car driven to the area you go off road at.
I carried out as much of a comparison as you can... I pulled off a worn set of q78 swampers and fitted a set of equally worn 35 12.5 claws.... and referred to them as they tyres I loved to hate...
They worked OK, sometimes, occasionally, but mostly there were crap. I turned the fronts around, and they were heaps better, but still not as predictable as the swampers. They ruled in the snow, but I don't think you will be driving much deep snow.
I now run 36 12.5 TSl/SX's. I don't like the added width over the q78's but they are heaps better than the claws, and generally not quite as good as the q78's off road.
Be very careful about what 37 actually means. some tyres are notoriously short. 37" boggers are 35.4 tall mounted (new.) Some 36" swampers are 36.3 tall.
I can't comment on general off road conditions in your area, but most people who swap from swampers to other tyres tend to say "they're not as good as the swampers off road but....."
About the only other tyre I would try would be a krawler, but that's only because they look cool
IMHO though it is a waste of time running any of these tyres unless you run beadlocks too. On my 2500kg car I normally run 8-12psi offroad but have run as low as 5psi. If you are stuck at 16 psi, you will never get the bast out of the tyres.
This raises another issue, which is stability. I run 15" rims, but at desirable pressure for traction, (around 12psi in my case) the car can get a bit squirelly on side angles as the sidewalls fold up. This is why there is a trend to bigger rims on 37"+ tyres. Considering the availability of 6 stud 17" rims now, I would be thinking about 17"rims. You will appreciate the added stability.
Just my 5c worth
Steve.
I have never run Boggers, and don't think that (cool as they are) they are really an option for a car driven to the area you go off road at.
I carried out as much of a comparison as you can... I pulled off a worn set of q78 swampers and fitted a set of equally worn 35 12.5 claws.... and referred to them as they tyres I loved to hate...
They worked OK, sometimes, occasionally, but mostly there were crap. I turned the fronts around, and they were heaps better, but still not as predictable as the swampers. They ruled in the snow, but I don't think you will be driving much deep snow.
I now run 36 12.5 TSl/SX's. I don't like the added width over the q78's but they are heaps better than the claws, and generally not quite as good as the q78's off road.
Be very careful about what 37 actually means. some tyres are notoriously short. 37" boggers are 35.4 tall mounted (new.) Some 36" swampers are 36.3 tall.
I can't comment on general off road conditions in your area, but most people who swap from swampers to other tyres tend to say "they're not as good as the swampers off road but....."
About the only other tyre I would try would be a krawler, but that's only because they look cool
IMHO though it is a waste of time running any of these tyres unless you run beadlocks too. On my 2500kg car I normally run 8-12psi offroad but have run as low as 5psi. If you are stuck at 16 psi, you will never get the bast out of the tyres.
This raises another issue, which is stability. I run 15" rims, but at desirable pressure for traction, (around 12psi in my case) the car can get a bit squirelly on side angles as the sidewalls fold up. This is why there is a trend to bigger rims on 37"+ tyres. Considering the availability of 6 stud 17" rims now, I would be thinking about 17"rims. You will appreciate the added stability.
Just my 5c
worthSteve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
PS This is solid goldvorno_18 wrote:well you have seen my claws in action and that time i had it in 2wd all day and didnt get stuck once also ran 35psi, with the body lift the shifter was hitting the floor pan and stoping me select 4wd
now i have it in 4wd it goes alot of places
never had any other tyre so cant compare but i do love them
Keep it real dude!Straight to the pool room! VVV
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Having run swoompers and claws, I had problems with death wobbles on the swampers, never had a problem with deathwobbles with the claws .. The claws also seemed to have fewer problems with flatspoting overnight.
" If governments are involved in the covering up the knowledge of aliens, Then they are doing a much better job of it than they do of everything else "
I would agree with with both of these comments Guy, but in my application, the claws had terrible wet braking traction and were very noisy on road - very high pitched.
The SX swampers I am running now are better on road than either the Q78 swampers or the 35" claws, which I mostly put down to carcass stability.
I am sure that radial claws are much better on road, but I don't think I would buy and "extreme" tyre as a radial by choice, especially for victoria.
Steve.
The SX swampers I am running now are better on road than either the Q78 swampers or the 35" claws, which I mostly put down to carcass stability.
I am sure that radial claws are much better on road, but I don't think I would buy and "extreme" tyre as a radial by choice, especially for victoria.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Re: yes another comparo tsl's vs boggers vs claws
Meanest?known 2 wrote:... apart from the fact they are the meenest tyres u can get.
The weight difference between a sierra and a Gwagen is considerable, but I agree the swampers did grip wet bitumen better than the claws.Gwagensteve wrote:I would agree with with both of these comments Guy, but in my application, the claws had terrible wet braking traction and were very noisy on road - very high pitched.
The SX swampers I am running now are better on road than either the Q78 swampers or the 35" claws, which I mostly put down to carcass stability.
I am sure that radial claws are much better on road, but I don't think I would buy and "extreme" tyre as a radial by choice, especially for victoria.
Steve.
Neither the claws or swampers on the Zuk were terribly noticeable as far as road nosie ... considering the tread pattern ... but the claws even in the worn state they were in balanced easily with the worst one requireing only a 200 or so grams of lead .. not to bad on a tyre and rim combo that tipped the scales at a bit over 40Kg's..
I guess I would buy another set of claws over swampers ...
" If governments are involved in the covering up the knowledge of aliens, Then they are doing a much better job of it than they do of everything else "
Re: yes another comparo tsl's vs boggers vs claws
Would have thought retreads would have been the meanest tyres you could get?bogged wrote:Meanest?known 2 wrote:... apart from the fact they are the meenest tyres u can get.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
wow that was alot of imformation thanks things have changed slightly so i'll be downsizing to a 5i lift with coil spacers so onl'y be able to run 36
i think the q78's are the go they seem to be good at everyting other than onroad
ps. if i have a 10inch rim can i run 14i wide tyres
i think the q78's are the go they seem to be good at everyting other than onroad
ps. if i have a 10inch rim can i run 14i wide tyres
kaylee 2004 hdj78 RV. 33 mickey atz's, winchbar, 3i lift, 3i exhoust, spoties, roofracks and ufh. pimped interior .
86 lwb zook wt soa, 33's, locked, bard up, prety lights. monster tacho:/
86 lwb zook wt soa, 33's, locked, bard up, prety lights. monster tacho:/
Once again, I will say it depends very much on whose 36.... as an example, if I recall, 36 12.5 TSL-SX swampers are 35.4" tall, but 36 12.5 "normal" swampers are 36.3 tall.known 2 wrote:wow that was alot of imformation thanks things have changed slightly so i'll be downsizing to a 5i lift with coil spacers so onl'y be able to run 36
i think the q78's are the go they seem to be good at everyting other than onroad
ps. if i have a 10inch rim can i run 14i wide tyres
I don't know what you are used to driving on, but I woudl suggest that a 14" tyre and a 10" rim will not be the hot ticket for drivability in most off road conditions, and will mostly be cop bait. On greasy slick surfaces (clay on tracks etc) a tyre that wide will suck.
Also, rims/tyres this wide are VERY hard on the car. They exert a lot of leverage and a very heavy.
I would stay at 12.5 maximum.
Q78's are happiest on a 7" rim. I have ran mine on 7.5" rims, (beadlocked 7's) but I have set them up on 6.5" rims (beadlocked 6's) and they sit very nicely on them.
In your application I would look to Q78 16's on stock nissan rims. These will fit up inside the guards on compression and you will be able to run far less than 5" of lift to fit them on the car. GU's have very large wheelwells.
Bear in mind too that unless you are lowering the bumpstops when the lift goes in, more lift does not let you run more tyre.
I would buy the tyres now and then tune the bumpstop length and lift to suit the tyres. With the car as low as possible you will have the best all round performance.
The tyres alone will be adding about 2" of lift, so with about 2.5" of suspension and maybe 30mm on the bumpstops, I think you will be fine - at least it is a starting point without going all the way to 5".
Just my 2c worth.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
what size tyres are you running? remember that larger tyres will also reduce your wheelbase (kind of) of a 2.5 inch lift from tyres might equal more like a 3.5 inch lift in equivelent rampover angle.superzuki wrote:go the 5in ive got a 4in with 30mm spacers and i still belly out on the harder traks like the 1st,2nd waterfall traks at oumea and a lot of other places more lift more door clearence les damage u still have awsome side angles that big i havnt rolled yet
[url]http://www.vic.suzuki4wd.com/forum[/url]
what size tyres are you running? remember that larger tyres will also reduce your wheelbase (kind of) of a 2.5 inch lift from tyres might equal more like a 3.5 inch lift in equivelent rampover angle.superzuki wrote:go the 5in ive got a 4in with 30mm spacers and i still belly out on the harder traks like the 1st,2nd waterfall traks at oumea and a lot of other places more lift more door clearence les damage u still have awsome side angles that big i havnt rolled yet
[url]http://www.vic.suzuki4wd.com/forum[/url]
so a wide tyre woule reduce perfromance in sliper stuff hey ?
i'll yake your word for it so 35/36.12.5 are the go the super swamper range all looks the same dose it realy mater wich one u get and are they comparible to simext ET in sliper stuff like clay
i'll yake your word for it so 35/36.12.5 are the go the super swamper range all looks the same dose it realy mater wich one u get and are they comparible to simext ET in sliper stuff like clay
kaylee 2004 hdj78 RV. 33 mickey atz's, winchbar, 3i lift, 3i exhoust, spoties, roofracks and ufh. pimped interior .
86 lwb zook wt soa, 33's, locked, bard up, prety lights. monster tacho:/
86 lwb zook wt soa, 33's, locked, bard up, prety lights. monster tacho:/
The wider the tyre, the "squarer" the footprint which makes the tyre less responsive to steering input. (the tyre doesn't have much of a "rudder" effect)
In dry conditions, the extra rubber means more lugs to climb with. In deep mud, you can throw more mud backwards with a wider tyre so you will normally have more traction, but it is harder to get a wider tyre to self clean as efficiently as a narrow tyre.
There is a lot of difference between different swamper types.
SX's are steel belted and stiffer than normal swampers. THey are quite stable sidehilling and have groovy sidewall tread, but they are VERY heavy and only available in 12.5"+ widths. The stiffness and tread stability seems to make them acceptable on the road IMHO.
With "normal" swampers, watch the ply rating - some a 6 ply and whilst it is cool for flexibility, they might be a bit too flexible under a heavy car with a highish COG. My Q78's are 6 ply though, and my G is 2500kg. Except for the 9" wide 34's, all swampers have the same tread pattern. Q78's have slightly more tread depth than other swampers of similar sizes though.
SSR's are basically a radial, and the tread is modified to be a little more roadable and offer better snow/ice performance. I believe they are a little bit vulnerable to sidewall damage.
Radial swampers are pretty much redundant IMHO. The availability of higher speed rated aggressive radials like STT's and claws makes the idea of a roadable swamper seem pretty silly. the tread is closer together and shallower too.
IROK's seem to get pretty mixed reviews. IMHO they have a bit too much void and not quite enough tread depth to work on a heavy car in most situations. They crown really heavily which will make for quick wear and squirmy handling on a road driven heavy car.
Swampers, SSR's, IROK's and SX's are available 36 12.5 with various rim sizes.
ONLY SSR's are available in 35 12.5
Get onto the Interco website (www intercotires.com?) there is plenty of info there for measured sizes etc.
Bear in mind that NO swamper is road legal on a car with a tyre placard, as they do not have the australian method of speed rating. The are DOT E4 rated (which is the US system) which means that in the US they are road legal tyres, but that system is not recognised here.
It's the same with Jap imports - because the tyres on them (regardless of how good they are) aren't rated with the australian system, they cannot be fitted here.
'pedes are ok, they are well sized (although the 35 is about 20mm shorter than a q78) but IMHO they are too stiff, especially in the sidewall. they are good for comp use where tread stability is important and the cars are on power a lot, but for general recreational noodling, they don't seem to hook up all that well.
In slippery conditions under power ( i.e slick clay), they do seem to bite very very well. I tend to chew my swampers up on rocks and stuff so mine don't stay very sharp, but I would tend to say that you might need to run a bit lower pressure in a swamper to make it bite as well in slippery stuff. In dryer conditions, a swamper will eat them because they flex better and develop a lot more traction. In my application, where I like to drive technical terrain slowly in an underpowered automatic, I don't think I could make the 'pede's work at all.
also, 'pede's have a nasty habit of falling off rims because of the stiffness in the sidewall.
either way IMHO once you have gone up to this type of tyre, beadlocks are required to get the best out of them anyway. I couldn't imagine running swampers without beadlocks.
Steve.
In dry conditions, the extra rubber means more lugs to climb with. In deep mud, you can throw more mud backwards with a wider tyre so you will normally have more traction, but it is harder to get a wider tyre to self clean as efficiently as a narrow tyre.
There is a lot of difference between different swamper types.
SX's are steel belted and stiffer than normal swampers. THey are quite stable sidehilling and have groovy sidewall tread, but they are VERY heavy and only available in 12.5"+ widths. The stiffness and tread stability seems to make them acceptable on the road IMHO.
With "normal" swampers, watch the ply rating - some a 6 ply and whilst it is cool for flexibility, they might be a bit too flexible under a heavy car with a highish COG. My Q78's are 6 ply though, and my G is 2500kg. Except for the 9" wide 34's, all swampers have the same tread pattern. Q78's have slightly more tread depth than other swampers of similar sizes though.
SSR's are basically a radial, and the tread is modified to be a little more roadable and offer better snow/ice performance. I believe they are a little bit vulnerable to sidewall damage.
Radial swampers are pretty much redundant IMHO. The availability of higher speed rated aggressive radials like STT's and claws makes the idea of a roadable swamper seem pretty silly. the tread is closer together and shallower too.
IROK's seem to get pretty mixed reviews. IMHO they have a bit too much void and not quite enough tread depth to work on a heavy car in most situations. They crown really heavily which will make for quick wear and squirmy handling on a road driven heavy car.
Swampers, SSR's, IROK's and SX's are available 36 12.5 with various rim sizes.
ONLY SSR's are available in 35 12.5
Get onto the Interco website (www intercotires.com?) there is plenty of info there for measured sizes etc.
Bear in mind that NO swamper is road legal on a car with a tyre placard, as they do not have the australian method of speed rating. The are DOT E4 rated (which is the US system) which means that in the US they are road legal tyres, but that system is not recognised here.
It's the same with Jap imports - because the tyres on them (regardless of how good they are) aren't rated with the australian system, they cannot be fitted here.
'pedes are ok, they are well sized (although the 35 is about 20mm shorter than a q78) but IMHO they are too stiff, especially in the sidewall. they are good for comp use where tread stability is important and the cars are on power a lot, but for general recreational noodling, they don't seem to hook up all that well.
In slippery conditions under power ( i.e slick clay), they do seem to bite very very well. I tend to chew my swampers up on rocks and stuff so mine don't stay very sharp, but I would tend to say that you might need to run a bit lower pressure in a swamper to make it bite as well in slippery stuff. In dryer conditions, a swamper will eat them because they flex better and develop a lot more traction. In my application, where I like to drive technical terrain slowly in an underpowered automatic, I don't think I could make the 'pede's work at all.
also, 'pede's have a nasty habit of falling off rims because of the stiffness in the sidewall.
either way IMHO once you have gone up to this type of tyre, beadlocks are required to get the best out of them anyway. I couldn't imagine running swampers without beadlocks.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
just had a look at the site wich one do u reffer to as the q78 and dose anyone know much about the ltb it looks nice and agresive pity it don't come in a bigger size
kaylee 2004 hdj78 RV. 33 mickey atz's, winchbar, 3i lift, 3i exhoust, spoties, roofracks and ufh. pimped interior .
86 lwb zook wt soa, 33's, locked, bard up, prety lights. monster tacho:/
86 lwb zook wt soa, 33's, locked, bard up, prety lights. monster tacho:/
The Q78 is.... the Q78
With a 15" rim the part number is SAM-52, with a 16" rim it is part number SAM-53, from their website.
The LTB's are pretty good - quite soft and tall for a 34. There is a 47" version.... They woudl make an excellent hilux sized vehicle tyre. We have a couple of sierras in the club here in Melbourne on them.
Steve.
With a 15" rim the part number is SAM-52, with a 16" rim it is part number SAM-53, from their website.
The LTB's are pretty good - quite soft and tall for a 34. There is a 47" version.... They woudl make an excellent hilux sized vehicle tyre. We have a couple of sierras in the club here in Melbourne on them.
Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
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