Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i do alot of 4wding and want one for when i either go alone or for when i go in comps in the near future

i have no idea on what size i would need, i dont want a small one and pull the guts out of it when i need to use it so what size is best

i have a 60 series cruiser

is a high mount better or low mount, whats the difference

i will be building a custom front bar for it when i get it so thats not an issue in deciding

i also dont want to be spending heaps on one probly 1000 or a bit more, would that buy a decent one?

thanks

vorno_10

I've got a 62 series cruiser with a Warn 10000lbs winch mounted in an ARB bar. It's an excellent winch for me with heaps of pulling power, it just hasn't got a high line speed. So it probably wouldn't suit comp work.

A high mount has the winch motor mounted above the cable drum with the drive via a spur gearbox on the side. The high mounts offer superior line speed so thats why lots of guys use them for comp work, as well they have an external brake that doesn't heat up the drum so they're ok for plasma rope(another good idea for comp work!). A low mount has the motor on one end of the drum driving through the middle to a planetary gearbox on the other end. They are a neater unit and fit in a smaller space like the front of many modern fourbys. A high mount is probably going to set you back a couple of grand, unless you can find one second hand. There are however plenty of cheap low mounts around these days, as people are importing them from China etc., and even Warn are making a budget model to get their share of the market...

If you can find an aisin seiki 1000 high mount winch (factory option for 60 series cruisers) this would be the best bet. Not as fast as the warn high mount but more reliable, and has a real free spool and high temp motor light on the factory winch control. Get the 24v one, will last forever.



Winch on the ground is the aisin seiki
winch positioned on the wagon s a Tmax 9500 low mount

Oh, and theres nothing wrong with a cruiser PTO provided you use upgraded shear pins.

High mount Vs low mount is like comparing simex centipedes to BFG muddies, there's no comparison.

If you intend on doing comps now or in near future get a hi-mount. I'm bleeding i was a tight-arce and didn't get one years ago, so i'm trying to land one aswell. It's worth the extra dollars.

As for low-mounts, great for general 4by recovery when not in a timed event. I have a Brawn 9500lb unit on a GQ wagon and have used it many, many times in anger and am very happy with it. If using it in a comp ss, you would probably DNF because they are a lot slower. And you'll p*ss your navi right off too 'cos they are very slow at winding out under no load.

I saw a repco 9500lb low mount in use when we were recovered after DNFing on ss3 during the Pirhana Pursuit. It was crap, and even using a dble-line pull (ie snatch block) it couldn't dead pull (no vehicle drive) us a metre before almost catching on fire it was so hot.

My Brawn, i have no doubt, would have pulled us single-line no problems, albeit a lot slower than the high mount.

As for the other brands i have no idea. But from what i do know i can tell you the Brawn is a good unit, the repco shouldn't be allowed to be sold as a 4wd recovery winch.

For your 60s, if you decide to go low-mount, i would suggest a 9500lb unit is adequate. 10000 & 12000lb units are just too slow imho.

Fourdogs wrote:Oh, and theres nothing wrong with a cruiser PTO provided you use upgraded shear pins.

Yeah, I was going to say, a PTO would probably suit if you could find one.

vorno_18 wrote:
i also dont want to be spending heaps on one probly 1000 or a bit more, would that buy a decent one?

thanks

This may suit the bill...
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=79426

Just curious i notice down under everyone are PRO M8274.
I wonder do anyone toy around with PTOs or is it because u guys favour controllability over speed.

Just a silly questions coz all the comp trucks back here in Malaysia prefer PTOs.
And yeah they are really fast. But can be dangerous with the speeds.

Not so sure PTO's are anygood if your upside down and your engine has stalled are they? Electric gives you time.

BabyGodzillaGTi-R wrote:Just curious i notice down under everyone are PRO M8274.
I wonder do anyone toy around with PTOs or is it because u guys favour controllability over speed.

Just a silly questions coz all the comp trucks back here in Malaysia prefer PTOs.
And yeah they are really fast. But can be dangerous with the speeds.

Different conditions.

When winching with obstacles to manouver around, you need drive assist to change direction. This is where the 8274 is better than a pto (and most low mounts). When the tyres have some traction, the load on the winch motor is reduced and the 8274 will speed up to take in the slack rope.

A fast pto is better for pulling through hundreds of metres of mud.

Aren't PTO winches equipped with a shear pin designed to break before the winch or gearbox does.? (Something like a fuse does for electrical amps)

The idea of attaching scuba gear to go swimming under my truck to replace the shear pin when stuck in a deep boghole or river has always turned me off PTO's.

And like Bush65 said, they're limited cos you can't drive/winch.

Leave the PTO winches for mobile cranes where they work best.

i must agree ive never thought much of pto winches

is the price between high and low mount a big difference as i would only be going in a few comps for fun not serious like some people do

is it worth purchasing a american winch as it works out cheaper even with shipping cost

look closely at the specs for warn winches and you will find that a 9000lb low mount under full line load is quite a bit quicker than a high mount under full line load.as soon as there is less load on the high mount it becomes alot quicker.this is not taking into account HOT-RODDED winches.

Bush65 wrote:

BabyGodzillaGTi-R wrote:Just curious i notice down under everyone are PRO M8274.
I wonder do anyone toy around with PTOs or is it because u guys favour controllability over speed.

Just a silly questions coz all the comp trucks back here in Malaysia prefer PTOs.
And yeah they are really fast. But can be dangerous with the speeds.

Different conditions.

When winching with obstacles to manouver around, you need drive assist to change direction. This is where the 8274 is better than a pto (and most low mounts). When the tyres have some traction, the load on the winch motor is reduced and the 8274 will speed up to take in the slack rope.

A fast pto is better for pulling through hundreds of metres of mud.

Ok point taken. I guess over here coz of our terrain conditions ( FULL of MUD MUD MUD) and how the comp trails are setup a "God's Winch" would be ideal where speed is crucial. Down under anyone toyed around with a setup like ours?

Just got me thinking coz the other day had to be recovered coz my M8000 winch wires got stolen. So no winch. A kind lad with a God's Winch PTO recovered me. Bloody hell its so darn quick but i've no idea how the hell does he control it..... Just a prod on the throttle and my rig gets drag by a mile. I guess these winches are just down right dangerous for recreational offroading.

joeblow wrote:look closely at the specs for warn winches and you will find that a 9000lb low mount under full line load is quite a bit quicker than a high mount under full line load.as soon as there is less load on the high mount it becomes alot quicker.this is not taking into account HOT-RODDED winches.

I guess it helps that the low mounts are geared lower than the high mounts.
What say u guys?

Oh as for those crazy God's winch, i guess they just weld shut instead of having a shear pin. Too bad i've only a "Got Winch" as in an electrical winch.

A fast pto is better for pulling through hundreds of metres of mud.

Ok point taken. I guess over here coz of our terrain conditions ( FULL of MUD MUD MUD) and how the comp trails are setup a "God's Winch" would be ideal where speed is crucial. Down under anyone toyed around with a setup like ours?

PTOs are common on the comp scene in NZ.
They can have problems with shock loads though, taking out the shearpins and even the PTO drive itself.
On the positive side they wil pull a cruiser or patrol all day every day as long as the engines running, choosing the speed with your choice of gear.

excuse my complete ignorance of the comp scene and its attendant requirements, but i think a lot of you are being unreasonably down on PTO's and their capabilities.

I winch and provide drive assist with mine, you have to be careful not to over drive the winch cable as the winch drive and wheel drive ratios are different. However, if you are CAREFUL and have practiced in a safe environment (key things here) you can choose between winch only (PTO on t-case), and winch/drive assist (4LO on t-case) very quickly. I'll repeat though, you need to be aware of shock loading and overdriving, so rope comes into it's own here. I have however seen on lots of winch challenge videos, guys shock loading their electric winches from over driving their winch speed.

as for having your truck upside down and motor not running, i think you might have other issues to worry about than just your motor not being able to supply drive. Electric winches have their own foibles as well like duty cycles, batt life (like when your motor isn't running?) etc.


be nice and don't flame me though. like i said i don't know a great deal about comp work.

Well said.
It's the singer and not the song....
Is it coz u're using a PTO winch that makes u wonder where is your "roll over point" since it doesnt work with the car upside down?
Kekekekeke
Just kidding, no puns intended.

no worries mate.

it's all in the interests of dubious science

I had a PTO on my old shorty GQ. It was the best winch I have ever used and I have used lowmounts, himounts anc comp spec himounts (24v). I was able to winch and drive. It was a lot harder than it would be with a Elec, but was doable and would have been much easier with lower trans gears.

One thing I was always worrid about was doing the shear pin. Cos its a prick to replace. But this can be over come. I just never chased it up. As Powerauto (dandenong) do some form of clutch pack which is ajustable that can replace a shear pin almost. It just needs to be set up to the right torque and when that is reached it just spins. Allowing you to either assit more or re-rig and go again.

It was also able to winch me up a 400m muddy hill next to a pine plantation with out stopping other than to re-rig. And it never got hot. Do that with a elec.
Also they may have a slow line speed under no load campared to a highmount. But they are heaps faster when under load.
Hopefully this will be shown when the OBC DVD comes out. As at Viewmont there where a number of vehicles in the Lagoon and the Kiwi GU had Sandys GQ hanging off the back. Winched a hellalot faster towing 2 cars than all the otheres did just getting themselves out.