Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I have SWB Patrol with 302 clevo in it thats pretty sad.

Also have gen 3 chev sitting on the floor, seriously considering replacing the ford with it.

Would it be worth the extra dollars do you think? To fit the chev I am up for at least $3500 (on top of what I have alreay paid for the engine).

To keep the ford it needs at least reco heads , possibly new pistons, electronic distributor, new intake manifold and probably other stuff, but I don't know what these are worth (a 351 crank would be nice too).

Can someone give me an idea on what the ford rebuild would cost- and whether there is any reason I should keep it? The Patrol is a daily driver, so economy is a factor.

keep the clevo prob best v8 ever made you can prob pick up a secondhand 351 that has unleaded heads for less than $3500 you just have to look around. If you are going to rebuild the 302 it all depends on how far you want to go with it for a basic rebuild rings and gaskets should be pretty cheap. I got my 4v cast heads done up new valves, guides inserts ect and it cost me $800. Hope this helps.

I had 2 FJ40s one with a 351 Clev and 1 with 350 Chev.
ignoring propular opinion the ford V8 conversion was mach better.
Massive low down grunt, no rear main annoying oil seal leaks, standard XD electronic dizzy (run great in water crossings,Mud holes)plenty of good motor kicking around from old fords that are Cheap$$$.
if i was going to build another project truck i would not look past ford V8!

Cheers Grant

with the 302, do you really need to stroke it to 351? or will 302 be enough.

keep your eyes on the trading post, as alot of clevo guys sell there cast heads for next to nothing when they upgrade to alloy performance heads.

the 5 + grand your looking at for gen 3 (not a real torquy bottom end either) would build alot of clevo, and leave money behind for some other mods to the pootrol

I agree go the 302.


BTW how much do you want for the GEN111

Cheezy4x4 wrote:I agree go the 302.


BTW how much do you want for the GEN111

I was about to ask the same question Sell the Gen 111 to pay for the clevo rebuild. You could leave it as a 302 but you can't beat cubes

Cheezy4x4 wrote:I agree go the 302.


BTW how much do you want for the GEN111

Owes me $3k, no accesories, starter or loom, has everything else and throttle body and computer.

I am very surprised at these reponses! Selling the chev to fund the ford was a passing thought I had but my heart is with the chev.

Can some ford guys give me a few pointers on what bits for the clevo? 302 cubes does the job, but if the motor is getting pulled down I'd prefer to put the good bits in now. It is running straight gas.

Go with what you want to do. Don't let other peoples greed influence you.....but PM me if you want to sell the gen 111 Just kidding

Reco the 302 to 351 specs but keep the 302 heads. Holley 600vac secs are good.

Will give you more torque down low and will run well on LPG due to the higher compression. Unless you are going to rev the guts out of the engine, keep the engine torquey.

I had a 351 C with those heads and XC electronic igniton and it was a great motor.

Think of the weight change if you put the Gen 3 in as it is all alloy and may affect your ride/spring rates.

Finally Clevelands sound better than Chevs.

RoadNazi wrote:Reco the 302 to 351 specs but keep the 302 heads. Holley 600vac secs are good.

Will give you more torque down low and will run well on LPG due to the higher compression. Unless you are going to rev the guts out of the engine, keep the engine torquey.

I had a 351 C with those heads and XC electronic igniton and it was a great motor.

Think of the weight change if you put the Gen 3 in as it is all alloy and may affect your ride/spring rates.

Finally Clevelands sound better than Chevs.

uh oh we're starting to agree again..

go to www.fordforums.com look in the clevo tech section, and ask how to get bulk torque out of a 302 clevo.

Slosh

Although I am a strong fan of EFI in your case I don't think the gen 3 is a good option. It wouldn't have to low down grunt your clevo has and you would also require a bell etc etc plus wiring issues for various sensors. ie speed etc. The Clevo needs diddly

Also you mention you are currently on gas. If you were counting on using this setup on the gen 3 I think you will find you will have to upgrade the gas system to a efi gas setup as otherwise they can go boom

If you do the actual rebuild part yourself to do a complete recon on a clevo including new pistons, rings, bearings and a head recon shouldn't cost more than $1500 and probably less.

As others have mentioned there are thousands of these around so you might also be able to find one already reconed for the right price. Check your local for sales.

As far as the other parts, ie dizzy etc again these are a dime a dozen and can be found on ebay along with an assortment of manifolds and 351 cranks and rods etc. Sheez I've even got some in the shed somewhere

I suppose I should admit I'm also bias but of the EFI Windsor kind



JD

Thats the nicest motor Ive see in a 4runner mate.Nice injection setup.


Go the clevo mate.Less cost and will go forever.Had heaps of them standard and worked.NEVER let me down.So basic yet virtually unlimited potential

i would never purposly put a clevo engine in a 4wd, before we even speak about any other issues, the DIZZY is in the wrong spot already. but since its already in there, just rebuild it.


but stick a 351 crank and rods in it. ( you can get the 4ma/b cranks and rods cheap these days)

your 302 probably has closed chamber heads, coupled with the 351 bottom end and LPG ( which i gather you have with a late model GQ v8 , you should have a resonable performer

it wont cost you much at all, just hunt around for the crank and rods.

Jes

Clevo > Chev any day.

Clevos are one of the toughest, most reliable engines ever built. Gen III are not. 'nuff said.


Plus as far as torque goes (whats important for offroad) then Gen III has very little low end torque and the clevo has a lot, especially with a 351 crank.

You can always go bigger than 351 if that's your thing too.....


Even taking into account that rebuilding a clevo is cheap (clevo engines are one of the most common on the planet). You should be able to do a 351 rebuild of your 302 for waaaaaaaay under what the adapator kits and mods for the Gen III will cost.


Selling the Gen III and rebuilding the Clevo and you'll be at least $4-5k better off. That would pay for some insane horsepower out of the clevo, aftermarket EFI if you want it (i'd rather gas), and still come out way in front on the beer drinking money.


Plus it'd be back on the road doing what you really want to be doing in much less time.

bad_religion_au wrote:with the 302, do you really need to stroke it to 351? or will 302 be enough.

keep your eyes on the trading post, as alot of clevo guys sell there cast heads for next to nothing when they upgrade to alloy performance heads.

the 5 + grand your looking at for gen 3 (not a real torquy bottom end either) would build alot of clevo, and leave money behind for some other mods to the pootrol

Well, in pre pollution (XB) falcon spec the 302 put out some pretty significant numbers anyway. 179kw @ 4600 rpm and 414 Nm @ 2600.
The 351 was 194kw and 481 Nm at same RPM.

Obviously they can be tuned far higher, as they were in the GT specs.

Check out the torque figure - thats whats's really important for 4wding.... and see how that goes against the Gen III

This dropped to 151kw @ 4600 rpm and 364Nm @ 3000 rpm in the XC (pollution control).

Getting over the Gen III power's out of a 351 would not be hard. As suggested try the ford forums.

Sydney Speed Supplies do a 383 Clevo Crank Rods and pistons kit, for around $1100, all new. Plus they can supply a balancer and flexplate, and balance the whole assembly for you. For probably around $1600 plus gaskets and a cam, plus reco your heads or buy a set of their assembled alloys for $1600, you will have a very stout, very grunty Clevo. You will be able to assemble it yourself, with a gregory's manual, as most of the hard work is already done.
For less than $4000 you will have a 383 cube, alloy headed cleveland, that will rip stumps out of the ground.

if you are going to stick to LPG then there are a few things that will really help to good power on a budget.
cheap high silicon flat tops, shave the heads to get ~10.5-11 : 1, std 2v heads quick port cleanup (lpg doesnt need much, but loves air speed) and do a single 30 degree valve job. This will give a low lift cam a great initial profile allowing good chamber fill at low revs = big torque. get an MSD dizzy with adjustable curves an a Ford motorcraft EFI coil as the slow flame front of LPG needs all the help it can get.

I have a long piece of chain and a boat that you can hang the chev of.

The FORD dizzy might be at the front but so are most of the standard straight six petrol motors that are already in the four wheel drives.

Check out EBAY for cleveland parts.

To put the gen in your truck you are looking at upto $5000. Like some of the smarter lads said you will have one of the toughtest motors that will snap axles like twigs if you put that same amount of money into the CLEVO or just spend a little bit and get it reconditioned. It still will be quicker than the gen.

LudaCris

Go the Clevo!

... And ... Dissy up front is where it should be!

If you're gunna put in a 351 crank you'll need rods too, but stck with the 302 heads, They'll already flow as much gas as anything GM came up with until very recently.

For fuel consumption there is very little difference between 302 & 351. Ive had 2 351s and 3 302s, and one of the 351s actually used considerably less fuel than either of the 302s.

14 - 0 sounds like unanimous victory to the Clevo. Thanks for everyones suggestions- I will start chasing up some of these options. Probably just get the heads done for now, and start building a better engine from scratch and drop it in later.

From my limited knowledge of Fords, I knew that the 302 was good for 130kW and known to be thirsty, whereas the Chev is 250kW and pretty economical... but I'll trust that you guys know what ur talking about.

In the Chevs defence, as far as the conversion is concerned, I will point out that an $1100 Edelbrock inlet manifold will bolt on allowing carb/ gas carb to be used and the whole elctricals/ computer/ sensors (and cat convertors) can be thrown away which is how I would have set it up in this truck.

Anyone interested in the chev please PM me.

Eddy wrote:Go the Clevo!

... And ... Dissy up front is where it should be!

If you're gunna put in a 351 crank you'll need rods too, but stck with the 302 heads, They'll already flow as much gas as anything GM came up with until very recently.

For fuel consumption there is very little difference between 302 & 351. Ive had 2 351s and 3 302s, and one of the 351s actually used considerably less fuel than either of the 302s.

Are you sure that the 351 crank will need 351 rods?? My mate got his clevo to turn with a 351 crank and 302 rods but seized up when it was still a bare block.

Also the 351 heads would be better because they are open chamber unlike the 302 heads which are closed chamber

anyway go the clevo thats what im putting in my 40

Bighazza wrote:
Are you sure that the 351 crank will need 351 rods?? My mate got his clevo to turn with a 351 crank and 302 rods but seized up when it was still a bare block.

Also the 351 heads would be better because they are open chamber unlike the 302 heads which are closed chamber

anyway go the clevo thats what im putting in my 40

You can run a 351 crank with 302 rods with the correct pistons. It is a good modification, as the longer rods give longer dwell at top dead centre, and make more torque. Although the capacity remains 351.

And the 302 closed chamber heads are the pick of the bunch, especially for LPG. The added compression will make a significant boost in power.

CRUSHU wrote:Sydney Speed Supplies do a 383 Clevo Crank Rods and pistons kit, for around $1100, all new. Plus they can supply a balancer and flexplate, and balance the whole assembly for you. For probably around $1600 plus gaskets and a cam, plus reco your heads or buy a set of their assembled alloys for $1600, you will have a very stout, very grunty Clevo. You will be able to assemble it yourself, with a gregory's manual, as most of the hard work is already done.
For less than $4000 you will have a 383 cube, alloy headed cleveland, that will rip stumps out of the ground.

Now THAT'S the go!

Then drop into http://www.gasresearch.com.au/ and do something about the induction system, as your 302 system will run out of puff.
Thos alloy heads are CHEAP!

slosh wrote:From my limited knowledge of Fords, I knew that the 302 was good for 130kW and known to be thirsty, whereas the Chev is 250kW and pretty economical... but I'll trust that you guys know what ur talking about.

You're talking about the WORST spec of 302 (XE) and still shaving some power off it, versus the most recent Chev with thermatic fans, EFI, etc etc.

Best non-GT spec i can find is this. You should be able to match or beat this without too much trouble - there's another 30 years of development experience since then...

5.8 351 cubic inches (5.8L) V8 (LTDs only)
Bore and stroke: 4 x 3.5 inches
Power: 290bhp (216kW) at 5000rpm
Torque: 380lb-ft (515Nm) at 3200rpm
Pushrod overhead valve, 2 valves per cylinder
Fuel system: Autolite 4300 4 barrell carburettor
Compression ratio: 11:1

not being much of a ford man i dunno alot about them
but would the injected motors from newer falcons be worth the conversion over a 304?

as they seem to be cheaper to get hold of and as powerful

badger wrote:not being much of a ford man i dunno alot about them
but would the injected motors from newer falcons be worth the conversion over a 304?

as they seem to be cheaper to get hold of and as powerful

he'd still need a different adapter kit i think for the later injected windsors... plus injection means SFA when your on LPG

clevo has heaps more bottom end torque anyway.

i wasnt meaning for him just in general
say if u had a gq and wanted an 8 lol

there's heaps of go fast parts avail for the windsors but if your gonna strip the efi and put it on gas you might as well get an old v8. the new windsors were lightened versions of the old so if you want big hp you have to spend a bit on the bottom end to keep it together. but if you want efi then they're a good option.