Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I finally got around to getting the 4.11's installed this week.

I went in with a few others on a group buy of some Ashcroft 4.11's a couple of months ago.

I pulled the diffs out myself but gave them to a pro to get the gears installed. Got a call today saying that they don't fit. Well they don't fit but can be made to fit if the carrier is machined out. Not sure yet what the exact problem is but I think it is smething to do with the pinion clearances.

Has anyone else had similar problems?

Have any of the others from this forum that went in on the group buy had theirs fitted yet?

Shane from Wombat 4x4 is installing them and he bought a set for his D1 at the same time and has had the same problem.
Instead of costing me $440 to have the pair installed it is going to cost $1400!!!!

You need to find out exactly where the problem lies, there are multiple things that can arise as i have found out please find out EXACTLY where the problem lies and i may be able to offer some solutions, its possible you may just need a sandwich plate between the crown wheel and hemisphere

Bugger!


Can we get some info from Ashcroft, 'cos I'm gonna have the same dramas.


'Ashtrans' is Dave, I think. Perhaps if you change the post to attract his attention, he might offer some help.

I have already recieved an PM from Ashcroft regarding this problem. I am getting a full written report tomorrow from Shane as to what the problem was.

For me it is too late, I had to make a decision and so my carrier was machined today. Shane has installed many 4.11's so he knows what he is doing (I hope) and according to him machining was the only proffesional way to fix the problem.

As I said, I don't yet know the exact problem but as I understood it was something to do with the pinion bearing.

up2nogood wrote:Bugger!

I thought you bought a Bushranger, why would you still need the Rangie?

It would be great to know what the problem was and an update as to how it went

I think you must be putting them on a 4.7 carrier, these are made to fit inplace of the stock 3.54 R & P gears.

let me know details when you have them,

Yep, will do. Will have all the details tomorrow.

They are definatley not 4.7 carriers, just replacing my standard 3.54's.

If i remember rightly, i think the 3.54 crownwheel is thinner than that of a 4.11 or 4.7 crownwheel. This means that the spot on the carrier where the crownwheel mounts is a bit thicker on a 4.7 carrier than a 3.54 carrier. If you stand the 2 carriers on end, you will see what i mean.

Nick

different diff housing specs between us and the UK maybe?

Simon

what a bugger...
does the $440 you were initially quoted include new seals and bearings as well

walker wrote:

up2nogood wrote:Bugger!

I thought you bought a Bushranger, why would you still need the Rangie?

Disco for touring, Bushie for flogging!


But I still gotta fit the 4.11's to the Bushie and now it looks like a PITA.

Dave (Ashtrans) have you ever heard of this problem? My gear is all Disco1 , post '93 stuff.

Woop wrote:If i remember rightly, i think the 3.54 crownwheel is thinner than that of a 4.11 or 4.7 crownwheel. This means that the spot on the carrier where the crownwheel mounts is a bit thicker on a 4.7 carrier than a 3.54 carrier. If you stand the 2 carriers on end, you will see what i mean.

Nick

the 3.54 and the 4.7 are different,

our 4.11's are the same as the 3.54 and thus are a direct replacement

shakes wrote:different diff housing specs between us and the UK maybe?

Simon

nope, they are the same,

up2nogood wrote:

walker wrote:

up2nogood wrote:Bugger!

I thought you bought a Bushranger, why would you still need the Rangie?

Disco for touring, Bushie for flogging!


But I still gotta fit the 4.11's to the Bushie and now it looks like a PITA.

Dave (Ashtrans) have you ever heard of this problem? My gear is all Disco1 , post '93 stuff.

no idea what the problem is, awaiting info,

Ok, I have most of the info now. Hopefully someone here can fill me in but my thoughts are that there was nothing at all wrong with the 4.11's and a lot wrong with the installer.

It seems that the reason the carriers were machined was because the outer race of the pinion bearing would not fit into the carrier.

I don't believe this is what was explained to me in the first place and my first reaction was...couldn't another bearing have been used. I was assured that there was no bearing which matched the carrier and the pinion (ie had the correct outer and inner race) so the only alternative is to machine the carrier. Again I find this very hard to believe.

Hopefully someone out there with some knowledge could give me the correct bearing number if there is one. It's too late for me now but might save some others the hassles of what I have had.

I'm sure someone can give you bearing numbers, but I'm quite sure the R&Ps use STOCK pinion bearings.

yeah, they should use the standard bearings..
so are you saying that he had to machine the actuall housing to get the pinion bearing in or had to machine the diff carrier..
does not make sense really.. I would say it has a lot to do with the fitter Adam..
My bloke charges around $60 for the same job.. and he is an ARB re seller

Yeah...now you tell me.

They had to machine the carrier. Unfortunately I don't understand it all so they can get away with telling me anything. Has anyone else dealt with Shane at Wombat 4x4.......he seemed to know what he was talking about.

walker wrote:Yeah...now you tell me.

They had to machine the carrier. Unfortunately I don't understand it all so they can get away with telling me anything. Has anyone else dealt with Shane at Wombat 4x4.......he seemed to know what he was talking about.

just the name would turn me away..... u know how much damge those things do!!

OK I'm getting confused (maybe it is an Aus/Cannuk translation problem). The "carrier" is the "differential". The carrier bearings have nothing to do with the R&P. It can only be the pinion bearings that have anything to do with the R&P. I assumed you meant he machined the housing for the pinion bearing outer race.

I still can not also understand how this adds $1000 to the cost????

i cant see how machining the diff carrier would help with fitting the pinion bearing.. but i may be wrong...
anyway...
so when do you pick em up

Ok, maybe it is my terminology that is wrong. What I am talking about is the bit the unbolts from the diff and you pull out. It holds the Centre and the Ring gear, the pinion and pinion flange.

As for the $1000 extra there were a couple of other things. New pinion flanges had to be fitted (but I supplied the new flanges and seals) and new carrier bearing were needed as well as the machining.

rightio.. that is the diff housing you are talking about I imagine..
but I cant see where the fark they would machine out to make fit...

it all sounds pretty strange to me..

Well the outer race of the pinion bearing must sit in tight against something??? This is what was machined.

BUT if I had know this was the problem in the first place I would have told them not to machine and I would have looked around for a bearing that fit. Unless the 4.11's have a different diameter pinion than the standard then a standard bearing should fit.

But really it seems like it is all one big stuff up and I just want it to end. What worries me is if they can't get that right, how can I trust that they have set up the gears right.

well that is a good point..
i am wondering if they actually removed the race for the housing in the first place..
MAKE SURE that when you pick them up that there is "paste" on the gears showing how they are meshing together.. usually yellow stuff.. sometimes black...
there should be a nice even spread of the stuff across your gears..
holding thumbs for you mate

No the R&Ps are designed to use the standard bearings. If they machined your housing, it is now screwed up if you ever need to work on it again. All I can think of is they managed to purchase the wrong pinion bearing(s).

Well, it should not be screwed, all I need to do is make sure I use the pinion bearing they used this time if I ever have to replace them.

But you are right, it sounds like the wrong bearings were used. I rang up Range-Rov to find out what the bearing # was for the diff's I have and there were only 2 numbers a "706" and a "707". One is for pre 85 and the other for over 85 Range Rover.

walker wrote:Well, it should not be screwed, all I need to do is make sure I use the pinion bearing they used this time if I ever have to replace them.

But you are right, it sounds like the wrong bearings were used. I rang up Range-Rov to find out what the bearing # was for the diff's I have and there were only 2 numbers a "706" and a "707". One is for pre 85 and the other for over 85 Range Rover.

the correct pinion bearings are :

539706 or HM801346X/310
539707 or M88046 555/M88010 097

these are the same for all years,

WARNING : don't let a dummy install your gears !

I can imagine you're pretty keen to get them in and forget about it, but it may be worthwhile taking both diff's
to a specialist to check the settings and see what's been done with these pinion bearings before you go driving on them.

Would be better to get them done right now rather than wreck 2 perfectly good sets of gears.
Worst case scenario, 2 2nd hand diff housings and 2 sets of pinion bearings + labour.