Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey what are other people opinions on this?

FnR diffs... 80s vs GQ

Which is stronger? CVs axles etc etc
Are 80s rear full floater?

Please explain ur reasons.

Thanks

80series
Full floating rear
more clearance for front diff
better cvs (imho)
more after market options
Weaker front centre (exspecially in reverse)
both diffs offset to drivers side

Nissan GQ
Non full floating
strong as fark diff centres
cheap to get replacements if you do manage to break one
front diff offset to drivers side
rear diff central (no offset)
less clearance on front diff

IMHO both diffs are a great budget choice and many many spares are available.

There was an article on this in 4wd monthly, I think around 12 months ago, search their index.

Agree 100 % with Anthonyp

What Anthony said but I would have thought that the rear diff of an 80 would have slightly more clearance. Is this true or false? I have never compared though.
I hear if you drive straight with the lockers on than you won't brake your CV's (Not always possible).
Cruiser CV's get more work and therefore wear because most are fulltime 4wd.

4WD Stuff wrote:What Anthony said but I would have thought that the rear diff of an 80 would have slightly more clearance. Is this true or false? I have never compared though.
I hear if you drive straight with the lockers on than you won't brake your CV's (Not always possible).
Cruiser CV's get more work and therefore wear because most are fulltime 4wd.

ive seen heaps of cvs break when just going in straight line theres heaps of factors to cvs breaking such as binding, grip, tire size, over steering the cv and ripping out the star to just plain old worn out cvs

we snapped right hand outer axle on a gq from pulling someone out on flat ground without locked centre

Anyone think the damage to your CV's axles etc, just may have happened 3 months ago and is holding on by a thread, you don't usually break things on the flat road, the damage has usually been done

cloughy wrote:Anyone think the damage to your CV's axles etc, just may have happened 3 months ago and is holding on by a thread, you don't usually break things on the flat road, the damage has usually been done

bingo...
My old silver rangie has worn the splines on the rear short side axle.. u would never know it was there, but go offroad and load up the corner and wat do you know. CLUNKCLUNKCLUNKCLUNK.... on the road its holdin fine.

I tossed up between these 2 axles for the front of my lux and ended up deciding 80s for a few reasons..

Better diff clearance
Plenty of aftermarket gear (longfields for one)
My high pinion diff with an ARB bolts straight in
For the weight and HP of my rig the 8" diff is fine
And its Toyota

From what i have heard, read and seen, it would seem there isnt a lot between them with cv strength.

If the comparison was against GU diffs, then GU CV's are stronger.


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raptorthumper wrote:If the comparison was against GU diffs, then GU CV's are stronger.


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yes but again you pay alot more for GU fronts... u could get a 80series front with longfields for similar price

ps. I have seen many GUs with busted CVs too (i'll be honest thou, they did cop a floggin)

Thanks all.

It will be going into a lux.
Can u get stronger axles/CVs for GQs?

justinshere wrote:Thanks all.

It will be going into a lux.
Can u get stronger axles/CVs for GQs?

If goin into a lux id go the 80series, you can use the gears you already have for spares (if you do break the front HP 80 diff gears).
The front will be stronger in forward, but slightly weaker then the low pinion hilux in reverse.

Wat size tyres are you planing on running and I assume your gonna be changin the rear diff aswell???

I wanna run something between a 37-39
Arent the 80s a rear offest? I didnt wanna run my shaft at an angle cos it'll get some freeway use too.
yeah i wanna do both FnR

thanks

justinshere wrote:I wanna run something between a 37-39
Arent the 80s a rear offest? I didnt wanna run my shaft at an angle cos it'll get some freeway use too.
yeah i wanna do both FnR

thanks

Shit didnt even think about the offset for the rear 80series under a hilux.... abit of a bummer cause the best bit about the 80series is the full floating rear.

Where as the nissan is the better diff (difflocation wise) but isnt full floater (which imho sux).

Yeah thats where im stuck....
GQ with no floater but centred
80 is a floater but not centred

GU would be nice but $$$$$

Whats the chances of me breaking a rear GQ axle, locked with 39s...???

What power plant are you planning on using?

justinshere wrote:Yeah thats where im stuck....
GQ with no floater but centred
80 is a floater but not centred

GU would be nice but $$$$$

Whats the chances of me breaking a rear GQ axle, locked with 39s...???

how long is a peice of string...??

no really its tough to say if/when/how you would break any thing cause depending on how you drive is the main factor... also wat your driving on... even your suspension geometry can change the way power is applied to the wheels... auto or manual etc etc, the list goes on and on.

I myself would be rather careless with 39s and nissan diffs, but at the same time i would not be too suprised if I busted an axle or cv.

I'll still be using the 2.8D but reduction gears/dual cases is on the cards too. I wanna do the job right, and not have to do it again in 6months time when ive broken everything.
I am pretty heavy with the right foot, and when i cant be up something i jus hit it harder! so its gunna cop a floggin!

justinshere wrote:I wanna run something between a 37-39
Arent the 80s a rear offest? I didnt wanna run my shaft at an angle cos it'll get some freeway use too.
thanks

shouldn't make any difference running an Offset centre as the shaft runs at an angle anyway, really with an offset centre the the uni angle may even be less because the shaft is longer

mico wrote:

justinshere wrote:I wanna run something between a 37-39
Arent the 80s a rear offest? I didnt wanna run my shaft at an angle cos it'll get some freeway use too.
thanks

shouldn't make any difference running an Offset centre as the shaft runs at an angle anyway, really with an offset centre the the uni angle may even be less because the shaft is longer

this is true to a point... so long as it doesnt have a double cardon joint at one end.

Funny, I reckon exactly the same with the 80 series. I thought I would break heaps of cv's and diffs and I have given the car a hard time over the last 12 months without a problem, although I run an auto gearbow and detroit locker in the front. I was just talking to Rod at wholesale automatics and he reckons he was never really seen an auto with a blown diff or cv's as the auto allows slippage. I can't comment on a manual application though, although he said he has seen more than a few blow up, but also depends on maintenance etc. I reckon the front diff has better clearance after owning a gq for several years and the rear offset diff is similar to the MQ i had which I think makes a difference, and as they said you can upgrade to longfields if you wish. Go the 80 series diffs IMO.

AnthonyP wrote: so long as it doesnt have a double cardon joint at one end.

What has the cardon joint got to do with anything ??

AnthonyP wrote:

mico wrote:

justinshere wrote:I wanna run something between a 37-39
Arent the 80s a rear offest? I didnt wanna run my shaft at an angle cos it'll get some freeway use too.
thanks

shouldn't make any difference running an Offset centre as the shaft runs at an angle anyway, really with an offset centre the the uni angle may even be less because the shaft is longer

this is true to a point... so long as it doesnt have a double cardon joint at one end.

No no its not...the only way he is going to get less angle on the uni's is a longer wheelbase or having the pinion in line with the output on the tcase

love_mud wrote:

AnthonyP wrote: so long as it doesnt have a double cardon joint at one end.

What has the cardon joint got to do with anything ??

a double cardon joint (at the tcase end of the shaft) cancels out the oval torque (vibrations) within itself, hence why you point the diff upto the tcase output to keep the force applied through the single uni (at the diff end) even.

Once you offset the diff to the left or right you create an oval force throught the single uni thus giving you a severe (sumtimes not so severe) vibration.

If running a single uni at both ends they will both cancel each other out and a ballanced shaft should not vibrate (assuming the tcase output is parralel when viewed from the side).

Or you could run a double cardan or cv at both ends of the shaft and then you dont have to worry bout vibrations as they both cancel out the angles horizontaly and verticaly.

there is much more advanced ways of adjusting the degrees (rotationally) between each end of the shaft to get better balancing properties but its to hard to explain for a simpleton like myself.

so i guess so long as he hase sinlge unis at both end of the shaft the offset should be ok.

Cheers
Anthony

..... hope sum of that made anyform of sense

AnthonyP wrote:

love_mud wrote:

AnthonyP wrote: so long as it doesnt have a double cardon joint at one end.

What has the cardon joint got to do with anything ??

a double cardon joint (at the tcase end of the shaft) cancels out the oval torque (vibrations) within itself, hence why you point the diff upto the tcase output to keep the force applied through the single uni (at the diff end) even.

Once you offset the diff to the left or right you create an oval force throught the single uni thus giving you a severe (sumtimes not so severe) vibration.

If running a single uni at both ends they will both cancel each other out and a ballanced shaft should not vibrate (assuming the tcase output is parralel when viewed from the side).

Or you could run a double cardan or cv at both ends of the shaft and then you dont have to worry bout vibrations as they both cancel out the angles horizontaly and verticaly.

there is much more advanced ways of adjusting the degrees (rotationally) between each end of the shaft to get better balancing properties but its to hard to explain for a simpleton like myself.

so i guess so long as he hase sinlge unis at both end of the shaft the offset should be ok.

Cheers
Anthony

..... hope sum of that made anyform of sense

even then, I can't see how it makes any difference the angle of the uni's doesn't really matter as long as both ends are the same, ie. the pinion and the T/case output are parrallel

mico wrote:even then, I can't see how it makes any difference the angle of the uni's doesn't really matter as long as both ends are the same, ie. the pinion and the T/case output are parrallel

yes that is entirely correct... so long as it doesnt have a double cardon joint at only the tcase end.

Both ends of a driveshaft have to opposed each other in order to cancel out vibrations (you obviously already know all this)... a double cardon (at tcase) with a sinlge uni (at diff) with offset diff to tcase input/output do not accomplish this.
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for justinshere:
Antoher way to look at it is as the shaft is rotating each individual uni is actually decelerating and accelerating twice per revolution.
So with a stadard uni drive shaft (on U joint at each end), one U joint will be decelerating at the same time and at very near the same rate that the first "U" joint is accelerating (assuming all inputs/outputs are parralel), resulting in a smooth power flow through to your pinion (which will cause no vibration). (taken straight from tom woods)

so dude, if i was you id go the 80series full floating rear and run single (but big) U joints at each end of the drive shaft and not worry about the diff offset.
Just make sure the shaft is balanced correctly and that your diff input is parralel with your tcase out put


Luv
Grimace

AnthonyP wrote:

mico wrote:even then, I can't see how it makes any difference the angle of the uni's doesn't really matter as long as both ends are the same, ie. the pinion and the T/case output are parrallel

yes that is entirely correct... so long as it doesnt have a double cardon joint at only the tcase end.

Both ends of a driveshaft have to opposed each other in order to cancel out vibrations (you obviously already know all this)... a double cardon (at tcase) with a sinlge uni (at diff) with offset diff to tcase input/output do not accomplish this.
Luv
Grimace

cool! I learn something every day, I didn't know that was the case, so basically if the pinion and T/case output are parrallel you use standard uni's and if they are unparrellel then you use a double cardinal at one end? or does the pinion have to point towards the T/C output to use a double cardinal?

mico wrote:

AnthonyP wrote:

mico wrote:even then, I can't see how it makes any difference the angle of the uni's doesn't really matter as long as both ends are the same, ie. the pinion and the T/case output are parrallel

yes that is entirely correct... so long as it doesnt have a double cardon joint at only the tcase end.

Both ends of a driveshaft have to opposed each other in order to cancel out vibrations (you obviously already know all this)... a double cardon (at tcase) with a sinlge uni (at diff) with offset diff to tcase input/output do not accomplish this.
Luv
Grimace

cool! I learn something every day, I didn't know that was the case, so basically if the pinion and T/case output are parrallel you use standard uni's and if they are unparrellel then you use a double cardinal at one end? or does the pinion have to point towards the T/C output to use a double cardinal?

yep the pinion needs to be rotated up pointing towards the tcase output for use with a double cardon.