Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Ok started 4 wheel driving Dec 05 got a Zook havin fun but its not really a roomy car....

I still going to keep the zook for mud pit bashing .BUT I now want a Nissan GQ cause every body says they are built tough........
But what model do I need. Will a 2.8 l turbo diesel be ok or will a dual fuel be ok or will a 4.2 turbo diesel do?
HELP???
What do I want to do with it you ask?
Go tripping FNQ Fraser Googs CentralAust Vic Deserts Highland Snow etc....
Thanks in advance

I'd go the diesel 4.2 if I was you. They are an all round good engine that is simple and will go for years.

I drive a petrol patrol and there is know way I would go touring in it. They don't drink they gussle and at a rapid rate. Gas wouldn't be an option either if you plan on touring.

As for the 2.8s I don't know a great deal about them but I don't really think they would be as good for touring as the 4.2 diesel.

Cheers Mick.

LPG LWB... cheaper to run, lots of room and generally cheaper than SWB.

Beastmavster wrote:LPG LWB... cheaper to run, lots of room and generally cheaper than SWB.

Do you have LPG or Diesel?
I am hoping that the Turbo Diesel brigade will come out and let me know the stats on long distance driving?
Cheers
John

Well there's enough stats here.


Suffice to say there's many dubious quotes about the fuel economy of the diesel.... people claiming 30%+ better than factory specs. It's one of my pet peeves.


AS a rule of thumb though, you should be looking at about (rough estimates here from previous threads).

LPG (dual fuel) 4.2 25l/100km (town) 20l/100km (highway)
Petrol or straight LPG 4.2 20 - 25l/100km (town) 16-18l/100km (highway)
3 litre petrol 16-20l/100km (town) 14l/100km (highway)
EFI Petrol 4.2 18-22l/100km (town) 16l/100km (highway)
Diesel 16l/100km (town) 12l/100km (highway)

From what I've seen, there seems to be little difference in fuel economy on the TD's, although obviously a lot more go.

As everyone has different tyres, tyre pressures, lift kits, carries different amounts of crap, roofracks, trailers, travels at 10kph over or 10kph under it's all pretty variable. Big muddies knock sh1t out of your fuel economy too, and out of your speedo accuracy to boot.

On the upside, putting huge amounts of weight for touring doesnt really hurt fuel economy, nor does towing a trailer so long as it's not some big windsock. Even towing a loaded 8x4 behind my SWB I could barely feel it.



Heavy offroad work can see 50l/100km out of a Petrol and high 30's at least out of the Diesel. Make sure you take that into Cookie when looking at safe fuel ranges.




Certainly the diesel is going to be noticably cheaper to run than the 4.2 petrol, it wouldnt work out much if any cheaper to run than a 3.0, and would cost way more than a LPG 4.2.



If you intend to do a lot of distance trips in the outback diesel is really your only option, although a good dual fuel setup should comfortably allow something around or over 250 litres in the LWB. You'd be suprised at how far that means you can go before you need to switch to petrol.

Even town based 4wd's like Prados have 160 litre tanks standard....


LPG will use almost twice the fuel of a diesel, but it's about 1/3 the price. Plus the $5k premium that people ask for on a diesel pays for years of fuel for many people....


If you're talking about a couple of one-off-trips some remote time in the future (long service leave or the big dream) then I'd be going the dual fuel. If you ever do actually get to go, you'll probably end up towing a trailer anyway, so you can carry some jerry cans.

After all you're going to want to take hundreds of litres of water, at least 2 spare tyres, spares, chainsaw, recovery gear, tools and all that normal camping stuff as well. Unless you're in a convoy with quite a few vehicles, that means trailers, or big loads on roofracks.

4.2 lpg SWB

cant go wrong

and it wont feel like you are driving a bus after driving the zoook


Jes

Pretty much what Beastmavster said.

I have a non-turbo 4.2 diesel LWB. I consistantly get 11.5 - 12l /100kms. this is highway or town - it doesn't seem to change much. I don't drive it like a race car... Offroad, it goes up to 16-20ish/100 depending on the terrain.

A properly setup turbo will give you slightly better economy, however, those more power under the right foot usually find it too tempting (and thus there goes the fuel savings...)

A diesel requires more regular servicing, however the offset is that there are no spark plugs, electronics, timing, etc, so less to go wrong in the middle of nowhere.

You mentioned wanting a GQ. This range did not come with a 4.2 factory turbo model in Aust (although there are some imports with Factory fitted turbos), so if you buy a 4.2 turbo one, it will be with aftermarket mods.

From talking with others, the 2.8 turbo diesel is a slug until the turbo kicks in, and then is on par with the N/A 4.2 anyway. Fuel economy is not much different. The 2.8 can be a pain at low speed / low revs crawl with insufficent power apparently.

You haven't mentioned how many people are travelling with you on your trips. If it's just you, a SWB will be fine, but if it's a family, you'll want a LWB to carry all your extra gear.

LPG is certainly a cheaper option, but do consider where you'll be going. Most with LPG only have a 350 - 400Km range on gas (less offroad), and then have to use petrol. On a longer trip where gas may be hard to find, you'll be paying big $$$ on petrol.

Beastmavster wrote:Well there's enough stats here.


Suffice to say there's many dubious quotes about the fuel economy of the diesel.... people claiming 30%+ better than factory specs. It's one of my pet peeves.


AS a rule of thumb though, you should be looking at about (rough estimates here from previous threads).

LPG (dual fuel) 4.2 25l/100km (town) 20l/100km (highway)
Petrol or straight LPG 4.2 20 - 25l/100km (town) 16-18l/100km (highway)
3 litre petrol 16-20l/100km (town) 14l/100km (highway)
EFI Petrol 4.2 18-22l/100km (town) 16l/100km (highway)
Diesel 16l/100km (town) 12l/100km (highway)

From what I've seen, there seems to be little difference in fuel economy on the TD's, although obviously a lot more go.

As everyone has different tyres, tyre pressures, lift kits, carries different amounts of crap, roofracks, trailers, travels at 10kph over or 10kph under it's all pretty variable. Big muddies knock sh1t out of your fuel economy too, and out of your speedo accuracy to boot.

On the upside, putting huge amounts of weight for touring doesnt really hurt fuel economy, nor does towing a trailer so long as it's not some big windsock. Even towing a loaded 8x4 behind my SWB I could barely feel it.



Heavy offroad work can see 50l/100km out of a Petrol and high 30's at least out of the Diesel. Make sure you take that into ***** when looking at safe fuel ranges.




Certainly the diesel is going to be noticably cheaper to run than the 4.2 petrol, it wouldnt work out much if any cheaper to run than a 3.0, and would cost way more than a LPG 4.2.



If you intend to do a lot of distance trips in the outback diesel is really your only option, although a good dual fuel setup should comfortably allow something around or over 250 litres in the LWB. You'd be suprised at how far that means you can go before you need to switch to petrol.

Even town based 4wd's like Prados have 160 litre tanks standard....


LPG will use almost twice the fuel of a diesel, but it's about 1/3 the price. Plus the $5k premium that people ask for on a diesel pays for years of fuel for many people....


If you're talking about a couple of one-off-trips some remote time in the future (long service leave or the big dream) then I'd be going the dual fuel. If you ever do actually get to go, you'll probably end up towing a trailer anyway, so you can carry some jerry cans.

After all you're going to want to take hundreds of litres of water, at least 2 spare tyres, spares, chainsaw, recovery gear, tools and all that normal camping stuff as well. Unless you're in a convoy with quite a few vehicles, that means trailers, or big loads on roofracks.

Thank you for your reply Beastmavster that is most concise and very clear.
If you are ever Geelong way PM I'll shout you a beer or two

of4x4 wrote:Pretty much what Beastmavster said.

I have a non-turbo 4.2 diesel LWB. I consistantly get 11.5 - 12l /100kms. this is highway or town - it doesn't seem to change much. I don't drive it like a race car... Offroad, it goes up to 16-20ish/100 depending on the terrain.

I agree with these figures.
My N/A GQ is awesome for touring, good range and fuel economy, and I dont have to plan my whole trip arond LPG filling points, as there are very few of these in Outback Australia.
LPG Servos seem to be limited to those that are serviced by a Bitumen Road.

I have put up with not having a turbo for so long, because it is such a reliable, predictable vehicle for touring, just a bit slower for towing, overtaking.
You get used to that though.

im sure after owning a zook you would already be use to slugish vehicles but anything you go for in the nisan range will be slightly faster at everything than your zook i would suspect

I have a 4.2 Turbo Diesel Mav (DTS Turbe kit), running 35 BTG Muds with a 4" lift. No roof rack and standard 4.1 diff gears. At the moment around town I'm averaging 13.5L/100km around town. I have a set of 4.6s to go in, will be interesting to see if there is any change to the economy.

When mine was only running 29s and no lift, it would average 10.5-11L/100km.

I used to own a diahatsu feroza. For a 4wd to start with it was a great
rig heaps of trips to the otways. I bought a GQ 1990 patrol duel fuel a fair
bit cheaper than a diesel with the same # of kays. Although i have done
no real amount of touring in it i have found that 4wding is a whole different
ball game. I recently picked up a worked reco Tb42 with extractors and very low kms for $1200. I Know that the diesel owners might think duel fuel is a waste of time but it is well worth the concideration.
joe

No one has mentioned the head cracking issues that the TB42(petrol ) motor Have or had ? As i am hearing of less of them recently, maybe they are all fixed now and not reoccuring?.

Fozdick wrote:No one has mentioned the head cracking issues that the TB42(petrol ) motor Have or had ? As i am hearing of less of them recently, maybe they are all fixed now and not reoccuring?.

The head cracking was a problem mainly with fitting LPG to 15 year old motors which were already tired, or had already faced stress damage from overheating/blown headgaskets etc.

Most LPG rigs have already been fixed if they faced this problem, which seems to be on a limited number of vehicles, and is far less off an issue than Web(toyota)wheelers make it out to be.

Considering I ran my alloy head 1973 nissan on straight gas with no mods, any ULP head should have far less problems coping. And I know for sure mine had faced issues on overheating and head gasket issues before being fitted with LPG.

Even so, no probelms on LPG and ran better than it did on petrol.



While without a doubt there *ARE* real cases out there, so as per always buyer beware. I'd be less worried about that than I would be the potential for an old diesel engine with no service history to be a very VERY expensive boat anchor.

Patchy wrote:im sure after owning a zook you would already be use to slugish vehicles but anything you go for in the nisan range will be slightly faster at everything than your zook i would suspect

I'd support this statement...

I've got both a 91 1.3 Zook and a 94 4.2EFI LWB, no matter what you get your going forwards in performance dude. My zooks a fun little rig, but dman your gunna lurve the capability of a GQ, even a stocker

BTW...Beastmavsters figures on EFI economy is about the ball park with what I get on mine. I don't reckon 16/100 is too bad for a 5inch lift, 33's, full roof rack etc etc for a petrol pootrol? although I would love he range of get better economy

I have a TD42 mav which has a turbo only running about 4psi. I run 33" tyres, 4" lift and 2" bodylift. I just completed a 6000km trip through central australia. On this trip I was carrying extra weight consisting of steel bars both ends, a long range tank, steel full length roof rack, steel drawer system, fridge, dual batteries, 80L of water and an extra fuel jerry can on top of all the normal camping gear. The best I could manage in fuel economy on the blacktop was 14.7l/per 100km and that was sticking to the speed limit of 100km/hr. Crossing the simpson desert along the french line I got 22l per 100km. On dirt, heavily corrugated tracks I managed around 17l per 100km. The engine is about 280,000km young. I wasn't entirely happy with the economy but I was carrying a considerable amount of weight. Remember outback fuel prices are pretty crazy, mt dare after the simpson was selling diesel for $1.92 a litre.

BigMav wrote:I have a TD42 mav which has a turbo only running about 4psi. .

4psi?? Surely thats a typo? Most are set up to run 10 and over.

not a typo, not sure why its so low, it was on when I bought it and I think it is one of the very early aftermarket kits, don't know what brand it is but it is very low boost. I will change it but it seems there is always something else that needs repair that is a higher priority.