Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Well, the death wobble has arrived. The truck is a 94 GQ LWB TD 42 and has had a 4 inch Mannel's lift kit in it (with offset radius arm bushes) for two years. Because its just started, I'm thinking that something has worn out or come loose. Everything checks out OK except for a radius arm bush on one side which, although not flogged out, has some movement.

Q1: Is this enough to cause the DW?

My search of this site indicated that the three most common solutions are:

1: Drop boxes; 2: Panhard and drag link mods; and 3: Removal of swivel hub shims.

Q2: Which solutions have been most successful?

Q3: If there is no evidence of play in the swivel hub bearings, does replacement of these make any difference?

I have noticed that the RHS radius arm has a slight bow inwards so a solution that I am contemplating is replacing the arms with 3RD's arms (or equivalent) for a 4" lift.

Q4: Has anyone had any experience of these correcting the DW satisfactorily?

Any constructive advice appreciated. Thanks.

start by having your front wheels balanced..

WAS GONNA SAY THAT TOO!! THE BIGGER THE TYRE YOU HAVE THE MORE PRONE IT IS TO DISTORT THE CASE EVEN TO THE EXTENT THAT ON A BALANCING MACHINE IT SEEMS FINE!!!

IVE HAD THIS HAPPEN TO ME TWICE AND WASNT TILL I PUT MY STOCKYS BACK ON THAT I REALIZED.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

The offset bushes flog out fairly quick. If you can afford the 3rds or Snake arms good , cause they run the standard type bushes.
Check your panard bushes too and if your steering stabilizer is shagged.
I have had the wobbles a few times now on a lwb and swb and more often than not its something that has worn.
Twice it has been panrd bush and once it was steering stabilizer.

Nope, none of that stuff. It's all been checked. As I said, the only discernible possibility is one radius arm bush with excess movement. Not flogged out, the compound is still adhering to the bush, but more movement than the other side. Was thinking about replacing bushes but there is no one in town with a jig or able to check castor. Nearest place is nearly 400 KM away.

When you say 'wobble' is it wobble as in through the steering column like out of balance wheels or general shake? What others have said, but also try rotating tyres to see if wobble goes away. Have your front springs sagged at all?

Nick

front wheel bearing nuts and retainers tight ?i have done this 4 times to rectify a wobble. you can buy a hub spanner or tighten with chisel

Mine has the wobble....got wheels balanced and the wobble just occured at different speed.....put alloys back on....wobble gone!!!

Jimmy

Also check for cracks between and around panard mount and steering box . If there is ever something worse than the death wobbles its when the panard wants to come away from the chassie.

on my mq shorty i fitted an after market steering damper to mine and it made so much difference before it was undrivable over 55kph fitted to a custom bracket attached to bottom of the diff the othe end is attached with a bolt on bracket to the cross steering arm that runs from wheel to wheel this removes several linkages and pivots from causing the wobble may seem excessive but i had to remove the original mounts as it fouled on the sump of the v6 now i can run an unmodified sump

The Death Wobble as described by others on this site is when, after hitting a bump at anywhere between 80-110 KMH, the front wheels start to wobble from side to side so violently that the steering wheel shakes uncontrollably and you have to pull over to get it to stop. It's not a balance problem because until hitting the bump the car will steer normally. The wheels were balanced recently anyway. Because it has just started I am reasonably sure that something has worn down and the only two things that are suspect are one radius arm bush and a radius arm that is slightly bent, which must have been done before I got the car. EVERYTHING ELSE has been checked and is OK.

What I would like to find out before I spend hundreds of dollars is if it is possible that one radius arm bush with excess play can cause this problem. If so, given that one radius arm is already bent, I will probably go for replacement arms rather than drop boxes. Has anyone used these to fix the DW and, if so, did it work?

Thanx.

I personally dont think it would be a radius arm bush, because they would only allow movement forward and backward not side to side. Sure it wont help, but.....

check the swivel hub bearings.

Ok so heres another wobble Q may aswell throw it in .

Got 37 maxxis creepys on mech beadlocks man the farkin thing wobbles like a bitch now i rekn its the wheels outa ballance but cant realy ballance them but she wobbles at 60kph then stops till 90kph then wobbles like a chick with DDD tits jogging .

Changed panhard new link bushes and steer stabaliser but she has been tamed by about 10% i aonly want a wobble of a DD any other ideas.

She has a 5 link front and doesnt need to stop to rid the wobble just drop from 90-less and its fine 80 is a dream then at 60 .

any ideas at all on maybe somehtin else wheel bearings just retightend and helpd a but but not enuff a 100 ks and ill be happi.

sorry for the hijack but its along the same lines


Dave

When i had this same problem, i found that removing the offset radius arm bushes cured the problem. I had a shop check the amount of caster i had with and without the offset bushes. It SEEMED that after my springs had settled a bit, the offset bushes were giving me too much +ve caster. My truck steered fine, but as soon as i hit a minor bump in the road, i had the same wobble problem as you. Before you go too far, get a reading of your caster angle.

Nick

mine does exactly the same thing, starts at 65kph, stops at 70 and stays fine..... even overtaking at 120 it's ok. my issue i think is a buggered RTC and worn radius arm bushes. I'm getting a set of 3rds arms for it.

Hold your hand around top panhard mount at bush, get someone to turn the steering wheel from side to side, if there is any movement there at all, it could be your problem. Have a fixed a few this way, suprising how little movement makes so much wobble.

Hope this helps
Greg

Thanks guys.

Woop, thats probably good advice. The last castor reading I had was exactly two months before the problem started and I had .5 deg pos (about 2 deg less than spec). That should indicate that up to that point there was no sag, or that there was too much neg to start with. I've done a major trip since then so if it has sagged it must have gone way past two deg pos. Farked if I know, it doesn't look sagged. Trouble is, the nearest place with a wheel alignment facility is 400 KM away, or at $1.60 a litre, $200.00 return.

The caster will only make it tram track and steer like a bitch. Do what Tailspin is saying, I think he is saying put your hand so that tha bolt is in your palm. There would be alot more force on the bush when travelling than sitting still, meaning more bush crush.

i personally cant see how a worn steering dampner will cause wobbles, im ran my GQ with 35s and no steering dampner for a couple of months and had no wobble issues

Sorry for a bit of a dig.

I've got the exact same problem. Replaced the front panhard bushes for genuine Nissan and has made a big difference. Still wobbles a little though. The RTC steering dampner seems fine. I'm thinking either wheel bearings or steering box. Bearings could probably do with a bit of nip up. Is there anything that can be done with the steering box? Reconditioning, adjusting, etc..

Had the swivel hubs overhauled recently too. Had offset king pin bearings in, but replaced with standard bearings. Now it pulls to the left quite bad. Have to turn the wheel about 5 - 10 degrees on the straight. Would this have anything to do with the wobbles too?

Yes AJS, I believe a mere worn bush could cause the death wobbles, or even less. last week a bloke at work had death wobbles real bad, worse than i've ever had, on his swb GQ. I drove it , it was shocking. Every thing looked right underneath, even a visual of the bushes looked good, but when i laid underneath & he turned the steeringwheel i could see the whole axle rotating. It turned out to be 2 radius arm bolts [ axle end ] were about 1 full turn loose. It completely fixed the problem. the car is 100% stock and NEVER goes off-road, why they loosened i do'nt know

steel wrote:Yes AJS, I believe a mere worn bush could cause the death wobbles, or even less. last week a bloke at work had death wobbles real bad, worse than i've ever had, on his swb GQ. I drove it , it was shocking. Every thing looked right underneath, even a visual of the bushes looked good, but when i laid underneath & he turned the steeringwheel i could see the whole axle rotating. It turned out to be 2 radius arm bolts [ axle end ] were about 1 full turn loose. It completely fixed the problem. the car is 100% stock and NEVER goes off-road, why they loosened i do'nt know

I have a swb as well and the nut on the panhard comes half a turn loose and it causes the wobbles, do it up and its right again. Have also come across the wobbles real bad tried every thing to fix it on my mates car, took the rtc dampner off and it fixed it.

The coil sprung Patrol front-end is a strange animal is it not?

Remember that fitting dampeners to front ends to cure wobbles can often just "mask" the problem. The dampener is there to dampen feedback in the steering from bumps etc. Fitting bigger ones to hide wobbles can just mask a problem. YOu should be able to drive without the dampener, it will just kick more. If it is developing death wobble, then the issue should be fixed, not hidden away. It will probably just return worse as whatever fault there is continues to grow.


Layto....

Well, in the absence of a direct answer to my question I took a punt and fitted drop boxes, as the wobble was getting worse. Thus far it appears to have fixed the problem. The only thing I can think of that may have caused the onset of the wobble is tyre wear, as everything else is still OK. Hope this helps someone else.

If you still used your standard radius arms with a 4" lift the arms would be at a angle to the chassis where they bolt in, they should be straight so the bushes are evenly clamped all the way around at static ride height.
The brackets with the holes for the radius arms can be unevenly stressed unless aftermarket arms are fitted.
Not saying this is the cause but it probably contributed to the problem.
It's part of the reason people fit aftermarket radius arms to suit their lift height.

To answer your original question. A worn radius arm bush (or loose radius arm bolt) is enough to cause the wobble by itself. So is a worn panard bush or a loose panard bolt.

Basically anything that allows a bit of movement foreward and back or side to side is enough to create a harmonic resonance which builds to the dreaded deathwobbles.

Many other things can contribute too, including caster angles, as it is your caster angle that brings your tyre back to centre. If you have zero degrees caster the steering will whip from side to side without wanting to slow down. With the correct caster the tyres will want to settle back to the centre position. The bigger the tyres the harder it is to control them so a good steering damper (NOT return to centre) will help keep them pointing where you want them to be.

I would also stay away from 3rd's arms as they cause as many problems as they fix.

The radius arm angle doesn't change if you use after market arms. The angle may look different because of the different arm shape, but the only way to reduce the angle is to lower the mounting point, hence drop boxes.

oh arent u in for some fun!
I had this same prob, see link

http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

The only thing that eventually stopped mine was removing the caster plates, and installing drop boxes. When doing this i also replaced the rubbers on the chassis end of the radius arm.
Read through the link n if u have Qs, PM me.

Cheers