Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I am really a fan of PTO winches. I have always had very good results using a PTO winch and like being able to control it with the motor without fear of burning up my electrics or the actual winch. I have had some bad experiences with electric winches...when I get stuck I am in good and electric winches have always failed me. I actually am not considering an electric winch on my MQ Patrol. I have a PTO box already and it is in great shape.

There are a few downsides of a PTO winch. If the motor stops running it won't work. This is the only real benifit an electric winch has over a PTO or hydralic winch. I have only rolled a truck once and we set it up right with another truck. So I think self recovery to upright a truck really depends on several things. In most cases I wouldn't have anything to anchor off to do the self recovery anyways, lack of trees ect. A ground anchor would work but I a a long ways off from feeling the need to spend money on a ground anchor and or carry it with me. Burry the spare tire 3ft down and I have a ground anchor anyways.

Any ways, I am having a hard time buying a facorty PTO winch for my MQ. I could use an aftermarket PTO winch but it just doesn't apeal to me. If I am going to mount a PTO winch it is going to be a Nissan one. I find them all the time in New Zealand but buying it and getting it shipped here is a different story. The next thing on my mind when wanting to fit a PTO winch is the probs I may have by using a header, ie PTO shaft and header clearance. Then there is the issue with how far out a PTO winch sits on the front of the truck. I dislike this about PTO's and if mounting one would want it custom fitted back farther which means cutting up the grill and other mods.

So I am beginning to think the best of both worlds may be to run the PTO box but use it to power a hydralic pump which in turn powers the hydralic winch. I have the PTO box and just need shifter plus linkage to make this option work. While if I go full PTO winch I still need the winch, prop shafts and custom mounting. A small hydro pump would easily fit in front of the PTO box with some simple custom brackets. And it should be well up in the frame rail to protect it off-road. I could use headers this way with no worries. Hydro winches have always not appealed to me because you need to run the pump off the motor. That means a bit less hp and also more parts stuffed in the engine bay. Not to mention belt driven pump, belt goes while winching and you are screwed. I would think using the PTO to drive the pump is a much better option and would allow for a better pump to be used. The pump seems easy enough to find by using something from equipment or a tractor designed to be run off a PTO.

I don't know a lot about hydro winches but they seem to be very well designed. Fully water proof is something I like, I bet they run a lot cooler than an electric winch too. But how strong are they? How fast do they winch? How reliable is the hydro winch motor? Is opperation of one more like using a PTO unlike the hand held electric controller?

a pto driven hydraulic is what we use at work for tensioning powerlines, i think its a ats or thompson. we use both hyd drive and direct drive types, hyd drive is good because you can plug in hyd tools like drills and saws.

they have snapped a 15kn hardwood pole in half when over tensioning a line so i think they are pretty strong.

ausoops wrote:hyd drive is good because you can plug in hyd tools like drills and saws.

they have snapped a 15kn hardwood pole in half when over tensioning a line so i think they are pretty strong.

definately what I am thinking, tuff as....

Many of these types of trucks back in the day were meant to run more than just a winch off a PTO. Just look at a old series L/R brochure showing PTO options or a Unimog. I don't see why hydraulics driven by PTOs isn't used more these days....and not just for winches.

A hydraulic driven chainsaw, not that seems useful.

I think off the right rear PTO you could run both front and rear winches using one PTO drive and one pump. Seems extremly easy to do on a Ute to me...

Ian,

Looking in my Y160 manual, it looks like the Fact Y60 (GQ) PTO winch is very similar to the MQ type that your looking for. There seems to be a lot of Safari's with PTO winches in New Zealand--might be worth having a look there.

I think people get scared off by the cost of Hydraulics--eg hoses and fittings as well as having to find space for a tank. It is also difficult to find a PTO with a flange type mounting to accept a Hydraulic pump for both MQ and GQ's--i know, i've been trying to find one!

Nick

I'd happily have a PTO in place of my electric... but a hand winch to back it up if the car got flooded (or heaven forbid upsidedowned)...

Woop wrote:Ian,

Looking in my Y160 manual, it looks like the Fact Y60 (GQ) PTO winch is very similar to the MQ type that your looking for. There seems to be a lot of Safari's with PTO winches in New Zealand--might be worth having a look there.

I think people get scared off by the cost of Hydraulics--eg hoses and fittings as well as having to find space for a tank. It is also difficult to find a PTO with a flange type mounting to accept a Hydraulic pump for both MQ and GQ's--i know, i've been trying to find one!

Nick

At work we service cable hauling winches mounted on the back of Landcruisers and Patrols. You may have seen these driving around.

http://tinyurl.com/mgmyw

These are hydraulic driven units. of all the Patrols I have never seen one with a direct mounted to the PTO hydraulc pump. They are always connected with a short drive shaft and the Hydraulic pump is bolts to a very hefty bracket attached to the chassis rail.

Powauto make a PTO unit for the Patrol but I am sure it is the shaft driven one used on the Telstra winches.

Shane

Almost all of the hydraulic winches used in the NZ winch comp scene are PTO driven H8 Superwinches and they all perform extremely well. Loaded line speeds are realistically around 40m/minute. One hydraulic driven 8274 is about 55m/minute.

In the GQ's, they turn the PTO output around to face backwards so there is more room to mount the pump.

But just how much is the freight from NZ going to cost you?? Complete winch / driveshaft / output setups are cheap as chips and if you stick it on on the slow boat it really shouldn't be that expensive....although you would still have the problem of getting the shafts past your headers.

GQ TROL wrote:Almost all of the hydraulic winches used in the NZ winch comp scene are PTO driven H8 Superwinches and they all perform extremely well. Loaded line speeds are realistically around 40m/minute. One hydraulic driven 8274 is about 55m/minute.

In the GQ's, they turn the PTO output around to face backwards so there is more room to mount the pump.

But just how much is the freight from NZ going to cost you?? Complete winch / driveshaft / output setups are cheap as chips and if you stick it on on the slow boat it really shouldn't be that expensive....although you would still have the problem of getting the shafts past your headers.

Almost $500 for the 86 MK 5spd from bellhousing to e-brake assembly....and it has a PTO box attached. Shipping around the world isn't cheap even on the slow boat. But shipping isn't my problem.

Finding the gear isn't that hard for me....just watch this site, http://www.trademe.co.nz/ for a few weeks. But the prob is I have been banned from Trademe because I am a yank. I even had several good ratings on that site, one from buying a Patrol I imported to the USA. But their policy now is no yanks!

My other options are ringing up NZ in the middle of the night, that is night time here. Such as junk yards and the like but I just don't have time for that. Trademe was the key for me and it was taken away!

I actually think the rear MQ/MK PTO is much better suited for the hydraulic which set up, since there will be more room. See this picture of a rear MQ PTO unit I took in S.America...




See I have a 5spd for my 83 4spd MQ and it has the PTO box on it...

I don't like electric winches so have planned PTO all along which is one reason I imported this box. But then I decided the PTO could be a prob with headers and also the custom shit to get it sucked up in front instead of mounted to a friggin 4ft wide platform like stock. So now hydraulic seems the best option for me. I just have no experience with hydro winches or how well they run off a PTO. By the sounds of it they work pretty kick ass which is what I figured. I known about Unimogs using PTO driven hydraulics for a long time.

They are always connected with a short drive shaft and the Hydraulic pump is bolts to a very hefty bracket attached to the chassis rail.

That is exactly what I was thinking of doing. I think there is room in front of the box without probs to the headers. How big of a pump does it take for a 12k winch? As far as hydraulic tank I think it can be fairly small. Take a look at a snow plow for example, small resivor. One of you mentioned turning the front PTO around to make it face backwards. I don't see how that is possible with my box. Or did you mean reverse the out put shaft on the PTO box so it comes out the back of the box?

Sure I can keep trying to get a Safari PTO winch and stuff from NZ. I can handle the 3-400 for the gear and the 3-400 to ship it here. But being banned from Trademe is making it really difficult. And the way I see it now $800 could be put torwards setting this box up for hydraulics.

Do you think it is possible to run two winches off one pump? Say for example you have a rear PTO box driving a large pump behind the gear box. Could you drive both a front and rear hydraulic winches from the one PTO/pump? I think I can actually get my hands on an MQ/MK rear PTO box from a FirePatrol for cheap. Just like the one pictured above.

If you ever want someone to bid on your behalf on trade me,let me know, as I'm more than happy to do it. As long as we sort the payment/shipping charges before the end of the auction, I'll be happy to try to help you out.


Dave

They are always connected with a short drive shaft and the Hydraulic pump is bolts to a very hefty bracket attached to the chassis rail.

That is exactly what I was thinking of doing. I think there is room in front of the box without probs to the headers. How big of a pump does it take for a 12k winch? As far as hydraulic tank I think it can be fairly small. Take a look at a snow plow for example, small resivor. One of you mentioned turning the front PTO around to make it face backwards. I don't see how that is possible with my box. Or did you mean reverse the out put shaft on the PTO box so it comes out the back of the box?

You don't turn the actual PTO around but just the output shaft so it faces the rear of the vehicle.

Do you think it is possible to run two winches off one pump?

No problems running both a front winch and a rear winch off the one hydraulic pump. It won't be a cheap exercise as Hydraulic components are not cheap. You had better get some prices before you start.

Before you buy any components first decide which winch you are going to use as this will determine the flow rate required for the hydraulic pump.

Are you going to run a electronic directional control valve such as a Cetop 5 or a manual operated valve ?

Where are you going to mount the oil tank ?

Shane

GQPatrol V8 wrote:

Before you buy any components first decide which winch you are going to use as this will determine the flow rate required for the hydraulic pump.

any advise on a couple good hydraulic winches?

Are you going to run a electronic directional control valve such as a Cetop 5 or a manual operated valve ?

Manual seems easier and cheaper. I am familar with this type on equipment. What is Cetop 5 and what may be advatages of it?

Where are you going to mount the oil tank ?

Shane

engine bay or back of the Patrol depending on size, ect. Don't see any real good reasons to mount it under the truck and I do see lot's of reasons not to...

any advise on a couple good hydraulic winches?

The two winches we come across in austraila most common are SuperWinch and Thomas/ Ramsey hydraulic winches.

These are not a standard WARN bolt pattern and you would need to make a custom bar to mount theses winches. They are also VERY LARGE

Manual seems easier and cheaper. I am familar with this type on equipment. What is Cetop 5 and what may be advatages of it?

A Cetop 5 valve is a electricly operated directional valve, available in 12 Volt DC they can be mounted wherever you want and wired up to a hand controller like a normal electric winch or a toggle switch on your dash board.

Shane

One of you mentioned turning the front PTO around to make it face backwards. I don't see how that is possible with my box. Or did you mean reverse the out put shaft on the PTO box so it comes out the back of the box?

Reverse the output shaft on the PTO box.

The hydraulic tanks vary in size but are usually around 30-40 litre depending on how long continous winching you want to before the oil heats up. A mate works on 35 litres for 5 minutes winching.

Most use Superwinch H8 winches.

Shame about being banned from TradeMe, let us know if we can help by buying on your behalf.