Outer Limits 4x4 Board

From patrol forum. Cheap lift kits everywhere soon


33" inch is the max in Vic currently, and no larger size can be engineered.

This is from the new national regs.

A maximum of 100mm in lift over body and suspension is also the maximum allowed, or no more than 1/3 of the original travel.

Vic Roads are using chassis to ground, and sill to chassis measurements to determine the heights currently, and are already engineering to the new D.O.T.O.R regs.

Anything engineered with bigger tyres, and/or higher suspension according to Vicroads, will be recalled, and deregistered until it complies, as they move on pushing these regs, by deregistering 18 engineers who approved such vehicles, and deregistering 54 vehicles in the past 6 weeks according to them.

They wont always pull you over, but will note your rego, and send you a letter for you to provide your vehicle for inspection, if your vehicle isnt on the record for being engineered with modifications. Expect them to attend events recording rego's as well, for sending out letters, as they have stated this is what they intend to do also.

This is from the right dept @ Vic Roads, over the last week,with a vehicle being engineered for registration as we speak, that I have had some involvement with.

The big message was, drive normally, dont be seen doing anything silly, and be responsible, and your chance of being "noticed" diminishes greatly.

i didn't think it is a new thing that you cannot get bigger tyres engineered in victoria. I think with Greg's car it is the one thing that will be standard when it goes for its certificate.

That said I got my sierra registered last wednesday with 31" muddies on it. And yes the guy realised because he entered the tare weight of the vehicle at about 20kg more citing the tyres as the reason.

Under our constitution wouldn't deregistering a car because it no longer complies with the law entitle you to a buyback or some form of compensation?

If what you say is true bogged, VicRoads could be facing a massive class aciton suit.

Tell them to get some legal advise, pronto!

Gribble wrote:Under our constitution wouldn't deregistering a car because it no longer complies with the law entitle you to a buyback or some form of compensation?

If what you say is true bogged, VicRoads could be facing a massive class aciton suit.

Tell them to get some legal advise, pronto!

Why?

you car must meet the Laws / Rules that the state andFedral Govt Put forward, if you don't comply they can deregister your car, as it is not fit for use on the road. Unlike getting a canary, things like tyres too big, is pretty black and white. So no need to send you to a licenced tester.

About time i say, should get a lot of the shit boxes off the road running dodgy mods / tyres.

Steve

Gribble wrote:Under our constitution wouldn't deregistering a car because it no longer complies with the law entitle you to a buyback or some form of compensation?

If what you say is true bogged, VicRoads could be facing a massive class aciton suit.

Tell them to get some legal advise, pronto!

Australia has no strong constitutional prohibition on ex post facto laws, though narrow retroactive laws may violate constitutional separation of powers principles. Courts do interpret statutes with a strong presumption that they do not apply retroactively. Retroactive laws designed to combat tax avoidance were passed in the early 1980s by the Fraser government.

srowlandson wrote:

Gribble wrote:Under our constitution wouldn't deregistering a car because it no longer complies with the law entitle you to a buyback or some form of compensation?

If what you say is true bogged, VicRoads could be facing a massive class aciton suit.

Tell them to get some legal advise, pronto!

Why?

you car must meet the Laws / Rules that the state andFedral Govt Put forward, if you don't comply they can deregister your car, as it is not fit for use on the road. Unlike getting a canary, things like tyres too big, is pretty black and white. So no need to send you to a licenced tester.

About time i say, should get a lot of the shit boxes off the road running dodgy mods / tyres.

Steve

Talking about a vehicle that was previously legal and now isn't. Like owning a semi-automatic firearm that is now illegal for arguments sake.

I think the moral of the story here is those who have aquired a 'dodgy' engineers Cert to certify things that they Engineer knew wasn't legal, will soon find their certificate isn't worth the paper it is written on.

bogged wrote:A maximum of 100mm in lift over body and suspension is also the maximum allowed, or no more than 1/3 of the original travel.

Ok, so I'm ignorant . What is the "original travel" of a stock Patrol or Cruiser and how does 1/3 of that compare to the maximum of 100mm? Or is this 1/3 specification more relevant to small vehicles like Zooks?

so you can either have a 2' body or sus lift?

can you have both?

The agreed DOTARS regs was 2" suspension lift, or max lift of 1/3 of factory travel as maximum.

Tyres were allowed to be 2" over the max (eg 25mm taller). So no 31"s on zooks either guys.... not even 30"s unless you have a narrow track 1 litre.


The combined height allowed was 3" body lift + suspension lift + tyre lift = 150mm MAX.


How that becomes 33" max tyres, when many factory fitted tyres are over 31" tall is another question.


So here's my question:

Is vicroads intending to make its own state laws that override the DOTARS agreement (they CAN legally do this, they have done so before when you guys had pretty much free rein and QLD and WA got it in the a$$).


Do they intend to recall 285/75/16 equipped 4wds? 305/70/16? 255/85/16? 8.25R16 equipped 4wds?


All of these are legal on any 7.50R16 or 265/75/16 factory equipped 4wd according to the DOTARS Jan 2006 agreement.






What can I say, I expected this and warned you all to give your feedback to your state DOTARS representative heaps of times. Go check the archive thread...... and all the "yeah yeah it'll never happen" dickhead responses.


It's all buggies from here on in, in the few places left to play. And that means your own astronomically expensive public liability insurance, or no insurance at all

I think you can have upto 4 inches maximum in lift using either body or suspension. Although I think you can only have 2 inch body maximum but 4 inches in suspension maximum.

Ludacris

lets all pray that vicroads decides they dont want to be like everyone else and make there own hybrid rules that arent as restictive

The sky is falling

100mm is 4 inch
so you an have a 2 inch suspesion lift &a 2 inch body lift
Lloyd

What if you don't have a tyreplacecard??? I cant find mine anywhere - Checked under bonnet, door trims, glovebox.... where can it be?

ludacris wrote:I think you can have upto 4 inches maximum in lift using either body or suspension. Although I think you can only have 2 inch body maximum but 4 inches in suspension maximum.

Ludacris

No, 2" suspension max. Go read......


http://www.dotars.gov.au/transport/safe ... _ncop.aspx


Especially read this bit http://www.dotars.gov.au/transport/safe ... eb2006.pdf


Yes..... read the high lift suspension lift stuff..... you cant legally run even a 2" lift kit (50mm) with some larger tyres. To run both 2" suspension lift and larger tyres requires very expensive swerve testing by a professional driver as part of the engineering testing approval process. Even if it passes the test they can still fail it if they dont like how it "feels".


And of course if the vehicle rolls over in the process, too bad for you.


Also note very closely the max tyre increase on page 63... +26mm DIAMETER....

One inch guys, read it and weep. It was 2" in the original draft before Feb changes (and also is on page 16 by the way). Nice little loophole that one they can use on you...... Yeah I asked about that loophole and it was never acknowledged, nor was it closed either......


Remember these are not the only set of rules in town...... guess you'll have to do an ICV now to do a tough rig....

Enjoy your day.

RockyF70 wrote:What if you don't have a tyreplacecard??? I cant find mine anywhere - Checked under bonnet, door trims, glovebox.... where can it be?

Then you have an illegal vehicle that is not allowed to be driven on Australian roads, since it does not conform with the ADR that specifies you must have it fitted.


Sorry, your rig is now spare parts use only..

wrksux wrote:lets all pray that vicroads decides they dont want to be like everyone else and make there own hybrid rules that arent as restictive

No, they're making it more restrictive if 33" is the limit.

wrksux wrote:so you can either have a 2' body or sus lift?

can you have both?

Yes you can have both. But 2" not 2'

hey if i want my 4 foot lift then im gonna have it.

anyone know how to lift an arb bar 4 feet?

I've actually seen a 10" bodylift kit done at a caryard on southside brissy using those marine HDPE rollers.


Anyone stupid enough to get in that deserved to be killed ina rollover.

seen the bootyfab body lifts in the US, how they havent killed themselves is only known to darwin

Looking to the positives, If it really does turn to s^&t as advised, the buggy scene should really take off! I wonder if I will be compensated for the tens of thousands I have spend on modifying my vehicle that was deemed road worthy by the same authority that has now “changed its mind”? I think not. I feel for our lads two states south of the Tweed - they seem to be the first experiencing the noose tightening.
Living in NZ or the US of A may be better proposition…..

Cheers

Beastmavster wrote: ......

Remember these are not the only set of rules in town...... guess you'll have to do an ICV now to do a tough rig....

Enjoy your day.

What is involved in that?

Could you use a vehicles' body on a tube chassis?

ICV... any rules go...... so long as the end reswult meets the required ADRS.


Hence if you can find road legal 52" rubber, and diffs strong enough to run them (thinking mog here) and you can make it comply with every single ADR, then good luck to you.


However, expect to blow at least 10k on engineering, torsional testing, xraying etc etc etc.

Beastmavster wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:What if you don't have a tyreplacecard??? I cant find mine anywhere - Checked under bonnet, door trims, glovebox.... where can it be?

Then you have an illegal vehicle that is not allowed to be driven on Australian roads, since it does not conform with the ADR that specifies you must have it fitted.


Sorry, your rig is now spare parts use only..

Vehicles that came from the factory without one are ok... so i'm hoping mine did. One law they didn't make retrospective.

srowlandson wrote:

Gribble wrote:Under our constitution wouldn't deregistering a car because it no longer complies with the law entitle you to a buyback or some form of compensation?

If what you say is true bogged, VicRoads could be facing a massive class aciton suit.

Tell them to get some legal advise, pronto!

Why?

you car must meet the Laws / Rules that the state andFedral Govt Put forward, if you don't comply they can deregister your car, as it is not fit for use on the road. Unlike getting a canary, things like tyres too big, is pretty black and white. So no need to send you to a licenced tester.

About time i say, should get a lot of the shit boxes off the road running dodgy mods / tyres.

Steve

So if that Kia can no longer sell the Pregio vans in Australia because the engine does'nt meet the new emission laws, does that mean that all Pregio vans should be deregisterd because they dont meet current laws??
Hoppy

Beastmavster wrote:
What can I say, I expected this and warned you all to give your feedback to your state DOTARS representative heaps of times. Go check the archive thread...... and all the "yeah yeah it'll never happen" dickhead responses.

Yep, kinda recall saying that these changes were on the way but there were plenty who didn't want to know about it. The problem is that even now there seems to be confusion as to what is allowed in Vic depending on who (VicRoads and different Engineers) you talk to

And for that matter, every old Diesel powered car in Australia would fail current emission laws, and older petrol cars would need to only run on gas to pass aswell, should they be deregistered too!!!!
Hoppy

I think you will find that they are seeking out vehicles that should not have been engineered under the laws at the time, because they were not actually compliant with the rules at the time. Not just any vehicle that was properly engineered but does not comply with new rules.

It is very rare for Australian governments to enact retrospective legislation. You would be hard-pressed to find many examples in our laws, especially in relation to ordinary private citizens. No offence to anyone, but I would want a lot more than a cut-and-paste from some other forum to believe that this is anything more than a check up on some engineers who were too lenient.

If a vehicle was properly engineered, that would remain valid unless there was some very unusual legislation. It's just the same as how an older car can get by without rear seat belts etc if that was legal when it was produced.

Bruce's email at the top sounds almost ambiguous as to whether it is talking about retrospective legislation or not. I would like to hear something more formal before I believe that's what's going on.

Some of you guys seem a bit too happy about how this is going to muck up other people...

Jason