Outer Limits 4x4 Board

mmmmm,

Other then its normally easier to have engine gearbox orientation north south, do people think the gyro effect of the motor , (Not the torque reaction on diffs ) Has an influence on roll centre ?

And would east west be an advantage in this respect,?

Talking buggy extreme instances.

(sort of momentary non mechanical weight transfer)

Any Thoughts !

mab but then when your give it stick up a steep rock or the like wouldnt it help the roll you back onto your roof? if your theory stands correct

there is one buggy that torques itself up and the axles are almost 90* to eachother with one tyre is on the sidewall and rim. the rig would stay quite stable (eg could not get it straight again with a spotter strap). but as soon as he gassed, it flopped. it has a FWD engine mounted N/S afaik. it mightn't be the motor orientation or gyroscopic forces but an effect of the high panhard and 3 link suspension.

I always felt that the torgue rolling effect (LHS front lifting under power) was due to the vehicle's reaction to the rotation of the drive train. Like when you floor it, the resistance to turn the tyres is transfered back into the drive shaft and motor/box mounts. So the motor and box twist on the chassis. If you get an auto car and load it up while looking at the motor it will lift the LHS up straining the mount. This transfers into the chassis. torquing it too. Watch sone solid street drag cars, often the LHF is what lifts hardest (unless chassis mods and susp mods and wheelie bars are in effect, this lessesn this).

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... highlight=

Check this link out for some info.

Layto....

lay80n wrote:I always felt that the torgue rolling effect (LHS front lifting under power) was due to the vehicle's reaction to the rotation of the drive train. Like when you floor it, the resistance to turn the tyres is transfered back into the drive shaft and motor/box mounts. So the motor and box twist on the chassis. If you get an auto car and load it up while looking at the motor it will lift the LHS up straining the mount. This transfers into the chassis. torquing it too. Watch sone solid street drag cars, often the LHF is what lifts hardest (unless chassis mods and susp mods and wheelie bars are in effect, this lessesn this).

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... highlight=

Check this link out for some info.

Layto....

I think Dozoor is referring to gyroscopic forces, rather than torque. Your spot on about the torque though, as far as i can tell!

-Stu

Just another input,
The Honda Accord EXi I used to have had some fantastic traction, for a front driver. I had a thought at the time that it might have something to do with the fact that Honda engines (4Cyls at least) rotate anticlockwise when viewed from the cam belt end of the engine. (east west mounted that is.)
Just a thought.

JC

Dozoor wrote:Has an influence on roll centre ?

IF you were at or close to that limit, and gassed it, I can see that it would be easy for the torque of the engine to take it past that limit.

Dozoor wrote:And would east west be an advantage in this respect,?

Depends how you drive I guess. IF your driving style makes the accel. pedal more like and on off switch, then yeah maybe. If you drive with a little brains then you should be able to figure when a whole boot full of skinny pedal is going to tip you over the edge.

If it compromises nothing else, then yeah it would be worthwhile. But if going east-west makes other things more difficult, then IMo it's not worth it.

That thread was an exellent one, I mis bills posts, some one done a grave dig there !

In there Wendle mentions Inertia , (spell check

yep this is what im on about , apart from all the squat /anti squat and the multiplication of the torque reaction to the diffs via the rotational direction of the shafts ect ,You can feel it mainly in big capacity free reving crittas,
350s 351s ect , sitting in neutral and blip the throttle , Ive had a few that would raise one side im sure a couple of inchs.

Been thinking (oh oh) Done the e/w mounted n/s in the 80s ,

Hows this sound , swift fr wheel drive , mounted just behind the seats ,east west
spooled centre, output running direct into a shortened spooled lux diff -
this diff is incorparated in the frame biuld to form one of the bottom rails,
The diff using two short side axles , then shafts to your normal mq diffs ect
Assuming 3.5 for all ratios (prob higher) 150-1
Any one get it ?

Thoughts ?

Dozoor wrote:That thread was an exellent one, I mis bills posts, some one done a grave dig there !

In there Wendle mentions Inertia , (spell check

yep this is what im on about , apart from all the squat /anti squat and the multiplication of the torque reaction to the diffs via the rotational direction of the shafts ect ,You can feel it mainly in big capacity free reving crittas,
350s 351s ect , sitting in neutral and blip the throttle , Ive had a few that would raise one side im sure a couple of inchs.

Been thinking (oh oh) Done the e/w mounted n/s in the 80s ,

Hows this sound , swift fr wheel drive , mounted just behind the seats ,east west
spooled centre, output running direct into a shortened spooled lux diff -
this diff is incorparated in the frame biuld to form one of the bottom rails,
The diff using two short side axles , then shafts to your normal mq diffs ect
Assuming 3.5 for all ratios (prob higher) 150-1
Any one get it ?

Thoughts ?

Yeah i get ya, and its got me thinking too. Though instead of using a lux diff as a drive re-dirrect, maybe a commodore irs centre of similar setup would be easier than shortening a lux diff down.

Layto....

Layto , The ifs centre sounds good ,

Now to further the thought , as everone mentioned the torque action

if we put one ifs on each side i think you could nearly counter the twisting action , by using the offset of the diffs to your leverage advantage , atleast in a foward direction , it would make the twist humungous in reverse , (shafts would be turning in opposite directions)
Big offsets on the diffs

(reverse=history Don,t need history )


Larry.