Outer Limits 4x4 Board

going to weld the rear difff tomoz probablly.......

what are your thoughts on this, i have read heaps on past thread altho i just cant afford a air locka!!!

also what diff oil do vit 90models take....???

thanks all

cheerz

are you welding the rear diff in a Vitara?

LSD 90 weight oil stays a constant. this is where LSD clutch packs use friction to lock up, and need something that will allow a constant viscosity when the temps change.

other oils are like engine oils, one weight when cold, and another when hot.

yea man i plan on welding it tommorow

thanks for that... any thing i should look for... my machanic says he might use the mig..... what u guys thinnk,,,,,???

Charged_ZooK wrote:yea man i plan on welding it tommorow

thanks for that... any thing i should look for... my machanic says he might use the mig..... what u guys thinnk,,,,,???

You will love it offroad, prolly not so much on road. MIG will do the job.

what you mean bad on road???... i understand that turning circle will be bad and tight turns also. what are some of the bad parts about welded rears???

i plan to pop tyre with my charger!!!!!!!!!

Grimbo say.. search and you shall find....

Generally, the car will understeer noticably on the way into corners and as you reach the apex, it will oversteer out.

you will get used to this and tend to "tip" the car in a bit later and then make it lean on the rear harder on the way out.

The car becomes more responsive to throttle. With a driver that is unused to the welded diff and/or the car they might get spooked with the transfer.

Vit's have a tendency to snap into oversteer anyway and can be difficult to catch, which is why many people have spun them.

If you are careful and get the feel of it, you might just like it.

They are good fun on fast dirt.

Charged_ZooK wrote:what you mean bad on road???... i understand that turning circle will be bad and tight turns also. what are some of the bad parts about welded rears???

i plan to pop tyre with my charger!!!!!!!!!

Depending on what tyres your running, but generally it'll be a bit noisy turning tightly eg. carparks, petrol stations. So you'll probly get some funny looks from people

i have a question how strong are the axels on vitaras... for eg. if going sideways will the friction break things...? ... will this cause things to break...???

.................

thanks mate...... i will be looking forward to the sideways action.!!!

thanks for that all!!

I am aware of a vit in melbourne that did break at least one rear axle on road. It ran sticky 33's and was driven sideways pretty much all the time.

It's not all sideways action - remember that on the first 1/2 of any corner, it won't turn in as well as it did and will not respond to steering anywhere as well as it did before it was welded.

You might find it hard to catch, especially in the wet.

Steve.

thanks buddy..for the help


have a good one!!!!!!!1...

weld mine 2-3 months a go was a bastard to steer in the bush in tight spots .then fitted 'this is strange 31'' mongrels now it turns on a 20cent coin cheers ron

gday ron....
i a little lost about the 20 cent coin thingy....???
what you mean buddy?
i am running 29" A/T

haha he means it turns well now.
so well that its turning circle is like that of a 20 cent coin.. i may be wrong though

ok, with a welded rear, the back end will behave a lot different to how it is now. but once you get a feel for it, it can be quite fun and quite predictable, as in, you know if one wheel spins, the other will too.

in the wet, it is fun, but you will spin a lot. SWB vits are hard to catch when the tail slides out, trick is, NOT to back off. keep on the throttle, but not floor it. backing off the throttle will see you spin out, flooring it will be the same, but if you just keep on the throttle, you can just steer out of the slide. i know, cos i have had too many close encounters with head ons WITH traffic going the same direction as me.

if you still have your sway bar connected at the front, you get a lot of "push" meaning, understeer. the sway bar helps keep the car level as possible into and through the turn. this means the back inside wheel will still have a bit of weight on it. if you take the sway bar off, your vit will dive into corners a lot more, much like a trike. this is also how to increase body roll if you so desire. with out the swaybar, the inside back tyre will have less weight, as most of it will be on the outside front tyre. this sorta lets the back tyre lose grip easier. but dont try this out based on curiosity.

if you accelerate into a corner, you will have weight shifting to the rear, and the front will push ahead, understeering, and then whan you back off, the front will suddenly turn in, and may catch you off guard, and you may not have enough time to react or turn the steering wheel back to correct.

if you accelerate out of a corner, most likely you will unload the front end again, and you will be saying hi to understeer, which may be well known to you by now. its either understeer, or if you are harsh enough to break traction out back, you will slide. the part i absolutely hate about tail sliding in the dry is when the back tyres "dig" or grip into the bitumen again, and buonce you back the other way. if you are trying to slide around corners on 29"s and dry bitumen, chances are it take a lot more force than if you were driving a gemini with welded rear and little 195/65/14 or something. tyres will 'fold', and you will bounce and rebound.

if you are running 29" ATs, you should be able to slide around everywhere quite nice. even with 31" ATs you can still do it.

what to watch out for is weight! if you load up the back with 4 fat chicks, or equivelant, then you will be putting a lot of strain and stress on the axles. the axles will twist slightly, and then rapidly untwist. this may be the chirp chirp chirp everyone hears. or if you have under inflated tyres, you will hear this also. if you are towing a heavy load, either boat or box trailer, you should always be aware of how the tyres are gripping and the road conditions, and you will tend to drive a bit smoother rather than more 'normal'

having a welded or locked diff puts heaps more strain and stress on bearings especially and this include the front wheel bearings, as well as the diff centre (side gears/splines/CW&P) and more specifically, the upper ball joint will cop a lot more strain also.

so, having welded or locked diffs isnt bad at all, it just comes with the need to check more thoroughly components that you would never look at ever with a stock car. so at every oil change or service, these things need to be checked, and checked good too.

overall, the advantages off road are the best, and worth twice its weight in gold. i dont notice the locker in my vit off road when doing normal driving on dirt roads, or turning etc, but when the track gets tough, i dont need to lock my hubs anymore, well, until things get extreme! ha. as for the front diff, dont even think about welding or locking it until you have a steel front end and power steering!

ronoor wrote:weld mine 2-3 months a go was a bastard to steer in the bush in tight spots .then fitted 'this is strange 31'' mongrels now it turns on a 20cent coin cheers ron

What pressure you run them at? It's the tyre pressure that makes the difference. Air down offroad and it will be hard to turn, leave them at high pressure = very easy to turn due to less tyre contact to push when turning the wheel. Generally the mongrels ride on the narrow centre lugs even at 20 psi and therefore very easy to turn. A small, more conventional tread tends to ride on a bit more due to less gap between the lugs making it harder to turn....found the same thing when i used to run those stupid things they call mongrels.

I had 29'' muds before was a bitch to turn. with the mongrels on road of road its great does'nt matter pressure up or down its weid cheers ron

i am running 40 psi... an getting back to all you replys i have had a9" LSD in my boat of a car, a 1983 Xe falcon with a 351 in it... i no what t expect in entereing a corner altho i wasnt quite sure of the hole senario of a permanatly locked diff.!!!!! (welded) so by taking out the front sway bar it should be easier to drive around town....?

whats PSI should i run with the the rear welded??????

40psi = goodbye kidneys.



Try around 26 - 28psi.

i just run the usual the 20psi..never had a prob. As for the mongrel steering easier even when aired down...i put it down to three reasons
1. gaps between the tread = less tread on ground
2. The sidewall is that stiff that even when "aired down" they are still riding on a lot less rubber than your 29 when aired down
3. The rubber compound is crap and wont grip on any surface so turns easily

SiKiD_01 wrote: as for the front diff, dont even think about welding or locking it until you have a steel front end and power steering!

are you referring to on road driving or offroad? or both?
as i thought it was ok to lock the front as you can unlock hubs for 2wd. Drive around town with a locked rear only. Then go offroading with (permanantly) locked front & rear diffs.

i have locked it. im melbourne it is a rainy overcast day and sideways every corner.... .... altho, when turning around say around about (spelling) it grips alot and its feeling like its going to snap, the axel by the way... took it in a little mud aswell and it went very well...

should it be this sticky around corners.???????

DEEV8 wrote:

SiKiD_01 wrote: as for the front diff, dont even think about welding or locking it until you have a steel front end and power steering!

are you referring to on road driving or offroad? or both?
as i thought it was ok to lock the front as you can unlock hubs for 2wd. Drive around town with a locked rear only. Then go offroading with (permanantly) locked front & rear diffs.

no way in hell would you drive on road with a locked in front diff which was locked. extremely dangerous.

i'm talking about off road. i'm having difficulties with my welded front. although a welded front diff is worth its weight in gold, the weight of the steering is pretty much worth poo, cos its so bloody heavy.

and the steel housing and PS is more vit orientated, as i have a vit.

SiKiD_01 wrote:no way in hell would you drive on road with a locked in front diff which was locked. extremely dangerous..

It is illegal, but not too bad on the road...except in the wet.

SiKiD_01 wrote: i'm having difficulties with my welded front. although a welded front diff is worth its weight in gold, the weight of the steering is pretty much worth poo, cos its so bloody heavy.

I run mine in 3WD and just lock the second front hub in when needed ...it makes it easy to steer.

Drover_Pete wrote:

SiKiD_01 wrote:no way in hell would you drive on road with a locked in front diff which was locked. extremely dangerous..

It is illegal, but not too bad on the road...except in the wet.

ok, what gives here? who drives on road with hubs locked when they have a welded diff? or air locker on?

i drove a drag civic once on a circuit, front diff had a very tight LSD, although it had PS, and was easy to turn, the push and torque steer was crazy. two hands on the wheel at all times. i can't imagine making it to the end of my street from my driveway with my hubs locked with out breaking a CV on my vit.

Drover_Pete wrote:

SiKiD_01 wrote:no way in hell would you drive on road with a locked in front diff which was locked. extremely dangerous..

It is illegal, but not too bad on the road...except in the wet.

I agree...what the? no too bad on road??? I've driven down the road and turned around with the front hubs locked without a locker and it was woeful...you cant turn it coz their both trying to drive....have you ever tried this or just passing comment?

welded diffs are the best mod . no other mod can make your suzuki fell like a 900hp torana for about 2 bucks. every car i'v had has had a cig locker. respect the locker and it will respect you. most people who carry on about lockers have never had one, just heard STORYS. Man up and weld em.

yea yea thats what i think.......... my mig rear diff is running a treat.... i respect mine through corners and its all fine.. i have found that as long as i coast through the corners i am fine..... with my a/t terain tyre they catch a little altho crazy burn outs!!!!!!!!

what tyres you running Swamp donkey..... does this affect your turning corners on dry road.......

Charged_ZooK wrote: what tyres you running Swamp donkey..... does this affect your turning corners on dry road.......

He runs nankans muddys or something like that, only cost $500 a set for 31x10.5 they are soft, are good on the rocks & loose stuff.