Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey Guys,
Anybody know if this will casue any long term problems, or whether it actually causes any driving changes:

Wheelbase on left hand side of truck is 5mm shorter than right hand side. So basically the rear axle is crabbing to the right. Vehicle drives straight as its been wheel aligned, but rear axle crabbing? Cant be good?

Is this 5mm OK and within limits or should there be no difference?
Some people Ive spoken to say its OK, others say it should be equal both sides.
Truck is a 2003 Toyota Hilux IFS Xtra Cab

Any other info would be appreciated.
Cheers

it'll cost in tyres and possibly handling, has it been t-boned?

Spock

Are you sure it's the rear axle?

V6XtraHilux wrote:Hey Guys,
Anybody know if this will casue any long term problems, or whether it actually causes any driving changes:

Wheelbase on left hand side of truck is 5mm shorter than right hand side. So basically the rear axle is crabbing to the right. Vehicle drives straight as its been wheel aligned, but rear axle crabbing? Cant be good?

Is this 5mm OK and within limits or should there be no difference?
Some people Ive spoken to say its OK, others say it should be equal both sides.
Truck is a 2003 Toyota Hilux IFS Xtra Cab

Any other info would be appreciated.
Cheers

Sorry to be pedantic but just an FYI. Wheelbase refers to the distance between front & rear axles, track width (which is what you're talking about) is the distance between the tyres front or rear.

Damo wrote:

V6XtraHilux wrote:Hey Guys,
Anybody know if this will casue any long term problems, or whether it actually causes any driving changes:

Wheelbase on left hand side of truck is 5mm shorter than right hand side. So basically the rear axle is crabbing to the right. Vehicle drives straight as its been wheel aligned, but rear axle crabbing? Cant be good?

Is this 5mm OK and within limits or should there be no difference?
Some people Ive spoken to say its OK, others say it should be equal both sides.
Truck is a 2003 Toyota Hilux IFS Xtra Cab

Any other info would be appreciated.
Cheers

Sorry to be pedantic but just an FYI. Wheelbase refers to the distance between front & rear axles, track width (which is what you're talking about) is the distance between the tyres front or rear.

To further clarify track width its the distance between inside walls of tres i beleive aswell.

Damo wrote:

V6XtraHilux wrote:Hey Guys,
Anybody know if this will casue any long term problems, or whether it actually causes any driving changes:

Wheelbase on left hand side of truck is 5mm shorter than right hand side. So basically the rear axle is crabbing to the right. Vehicle drives straight as its been wheel aligned, but rear axle crabbing? Cant be good?

Is this 5mm OK and within limits or should there be no difference?
Some people Ive spoken to say its OK, others say it should be equal both sides.
Truck is a 2003 Toyota Hilux IFS Xtra Cab

Any other info would be appreciated.
Cheers

Sorry to be pedantic but just an FYI. Wheelbase refers to the distance between front & rear axles, track width (which is what you're talking about) is the distance between the tyres front or rear.

WTF

Most cars have different tracks front and rear... thats not an issue.

He is talking about the distance between front and rear axels on the left side of the car being different to that on the right side of the car.

Eg the two axels are not perfectly parallel

Damo wrote:

V6XtraHilux wrote:Hey Guys,
Anybody know if this will casue any long term problems, or whether it actually causes any driving changes:

Wheelbase on left hand side of truck is 5mm shorter than right hand side. So basically the rear axle is crabbing to the right. Vehicle drives straight as its been wheel aligned, but rear axle crabbing? Cant be good?

Is this 5mm OK and within limits or should there be no difference?
Some people Ive spoken to say its OK, others say it should be equal both sides.
Truck is a 2003 Toyota Hilux IFS Xtra Cab

Any other info would be appreciated.
Cheers

Sorry to be pedantic but just an FYI. Wheelbase refers to the distance between front & rear axles, track width (which is what you're talking about) is the distance between the tyres front or rear.

Re-read the quote, he IS talking about LHS vs RHS of the vehicle.

Answer to the question it will crab a minor amount (probably unnoticable). Castor/camber/toe in alignment on the front suspension would not affect the overall geometry front to rear.

You'll probably find the front axle is out... Had this with my Triton and the boys at Wide Tread in Ferntree Gully picked it up and fixed it.

They reckon it's fairly common from the factory with the IFS utes.

Edit: mine was 15mm shorter on the LHS to the RHS.

Probably the steering wheel is slightly turned.

+dj_hansen+ wrote: To further clarify track width its the distance between inside walls of tres i beleive aswell.

Track width is the measurement between the centre of each tyre.

HotFourOk wrote: WTF

Most cars have different tracks front and rear... thats not an issue.

He is talking about the distance between front and rear axels on the left side of the car being different to that on the right side of the car.

Eg the two axels are not perfectly parallel

Now that I read it again I think you could be right, I interpreted it differently. Would be good to get some clarification from V6XtraHilux because people are always using wheelbase when they mean track width. It makes it very confusering

+dj_hansen+ wrote:

Damo wrote:

V6XtraHilux wrote:Hey Guys,
Anybody know if this will casue any long term problems, or whether it actually causes any driving changes:

Wheelbase on left hand side of truck is 5mm shorter than right hand side. So basically the rear axle is crabbing to the right. Vehicle drives straight as its been wheel aligned, but rear axle crabbing? Cant be good?

Is this 5mm OK and within limits or should there be no difference?
Some people Ive spoken to say its OK, others say it should be equal both sides.
Truck is a 2003 Toyota Hilux IFS Xtra Cab

Any other info would be appreciated.
Cheers

Sorry to be pedantic but just an FYI. Wheelbase refers to the distance between front & rear axles, track width (which is what you're talking about) is the distance between the tyres front or rear.

To further clarify track width its the distance between inside walls of tres i beleive aswell.

not according to QLD transport.

Slunnie wrote:Probably the steering wheel is slightly turned.

This could very much be the case too. Steering only needs to be so very slightly turned to get different wheelbase measurements on either side.

5mm... dude, I would be surprised if you could get the wheels straight enough to measure that much difference.

For wheelbase measurement I measure both sides and take the average - a tiny turn of the wheel and you can be 20mm out.

5mm... forget about it.

S.

5mm is nothin! its called setback google it

yer 5 mm is no big deal

With an IFS 4by, you'd normally have different caster on each side, to help the vehicle track straight on our cambered roads. I'm guessing that would affect the wheelbase measurements too.

Scott

Hey guys,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to answer all the questions. I forgot to tick the "Notify me when a reply is posted"

To answer the questions about the 5mm: It is indeed teh wheelbase that im talking about. The distance from the centre of the hubs on the left hand side of the truck are 5mm out compared to the right hand side.

How do I know this? I had bashed the IFS and bullbar some time ago, and thought the chassis was twisted, so I removed the bullbar, and took it to Mitchell Bros (free plug!) in Brookvale and they had the truck on a "ROBOT" chassis measureing machine and all measurements were within limits I was told. To add to this, I asked them to wheel align the truck as well, and the wheel alighment guy said the front was within specs BUT the wheelbases where out. He had the truck in a proper wheel aligner machine, so Im assuming (and I can 100% assume they were) the front wheels were straight.

The reason I ask whether this crabbing has any driving effect is that I seem to feel the back wheels wanting to drive (read push) a bit more, it kind of feels like one side is pushing a bit more than the other side. Sounds weird, and Ive had people roll there eyes at me when I explain it that way, but thats what it feels thru my pants. Was thinking the left wheel would drive, then the right wheel would drive (my LSD had been removed to make way for the Air locker), maybe the open diff is behaving like going round a corner????

Anyway, hope this answers the questions, and helps with more diagnosing the real problem.

Ta.
Karl

My rangie has 15mm difference, and most of my RR's and Discos I see are similar.

JC.

V6XtraHilux wrote:Ive had people roll there eyes at me when I explain it that way, but thats what it feels thru my pants.

I wouldn't be worried about it. Like most people said it'd only 5mm, a very small overall percentage when taken from the wheelbase measurement.

just a little Hi-jack, but I wonder if this is the answer to all those who complain about some Patrols steering left and not other owners? Sloppy manufacture - given the state of their welding it wouldnt surprise me.

AndrewPatrol wrote:just a little Hi-jack, but I wonder if this is the answer to all those who complain about some Patrols steering left and not other owners? Sloppy manufacture - given the state of their welding it wouldnt surprise me.

i have noticed this too with alot of jap stuff theres alot more cracks in chassies and the welds look first year aprentice. way too much shit being made in china with a made in japan lable and price

There is no way you could notice a 5mm difference when driving. 5mm is probably still within manufacturing tolerances.

I once broke a leaf spring centre bolt on a landie, and the front axle moved back 3" on one side, and even then I couldn't notice it (if it had been the rear then it may have been noticeable).

check you manufactures handbook to find out the correct wheelbase.

this will let you know where you stand with both measurements. they both may be out without first having a definate measurement to reference from.

chances are any misalignment would be in the front as it is the weakest link but your alredy aware of that since you hit it.

cheers.

Maybe this is why patrols always handle shit and wobble and shake all over the place, and i'm talking 88 GQ, 95GQ, 99GU - all have the same symptons.

ISUZUROVER wrote:
I once broke a leaf spring centre bolt on a landie, and the front axle moved back 3" on one side, and even then I couldn't notice it (if it had been the rear then it may have been noticeable).

3" difference is probably normal for a landie isn't it?

ISUZUROVER wrote:There is no way you could notice a 5mm difference when driving. 5mm is probably still within manufacturing tolerances.

I once broke a leaf spring centre bolt on a landie, and the front axle moved back 3" on one side, and even then I couldn't notice it (if it had been the rear then it may have been noticeable).

U couldnt notice a 3inch change in your front axle? Didnt you notice you were going round in circles?????

Im sure a cnage like that in the front axle would be noticeable, but I still think a rear axle that is always driving would be easier to notice the difference.

Got under the truck this weekend and did some more measurements. Turns out that on the left hand side of the rear leaf spring, the distance from the centre of the fixed end of the spring to the axle housing, when compared to the right hand size is where teh difference is. The polyurethane bush in the leaf spring eye seems to be squashed, so Im thinking the whole leaf spring has shifted forwards, and the eye squeeks as you cycle the suspension. Will have to get this checked out.

If it has leaf rear springs I would also check the centre bolt as well as the front bushes for this problem. You can get a discrepancy just by using centre bolts with smaller heads, the diff can be out 10 to 15mm by this alone.
I would agree with isuzurover about a front broken spring or broken centre bolt , I have seen a few and most are not noticed until something knocks or rubs which draws you to its attention. Maybe it is just the rough roads I have driven on.