Outer Limits 4x4 Board

has anyone been using ethanol fuel. what side effects has it given you if any?

I put some in my zook and it has caused surging and backfires and wont let it rev right out to 6000rpm. I have used 98 high octane in it before without any trouble. Maybee the weber dont like it.

any thoughts

I use E10 petrol every week. 98 octane because it's as cheap as 95 across the road. i love it

What you are experiencing is just probably the engine 'flushing'.
All the gunk and carbon thats built up over the life of the engine tends to be broken down by the ethanol causing it to surge and idle funny for the first few tanks. I am sure if you stuck it out for a few tanks it would smooth out.

Still one thing you could do is warm up the engine for a good 5 mins (timed) and then take it out and rev the hell out of it in a lower gear (like 3rd at 70kms) should force all the gunk out quicker.

Last thing to consider is a new fuel filter (ethanol friendly too )

yeah mate, i have'nt had any problems. the only difference i noticed with ethanol fuel is the price.

i reved the shait out of it in 3rd gear and it started breaking down so i held it there (5500rpm) till i could stand it no more and when i changed to 4th it let go a massive backfire that lit up the road behind me and scared the life out of the guy in the left lane just behind me

http://www.fcai.com.au/ethanol.php/2006 ... 00005.html

Suzuki suggest you don't use it.
The fuel tanks, fuel lines, fuel filters, carby gaskets and seals need to suit ethanol.
The EFI models all seem to be OK to use E10.
I used it once, ran terrible.
But mine hates 98ron, also.
I just use 92ulp at only 3c more than e10.

christover

REASONS WHY ETHANOL BLENDED PETROL IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN SOME OLDER VEHICLES

Introduction

The following information outlines the key reasons why vehicle manufacturers do not recommend the use of any ethanol/petrol blended fuels in vehicles made before 1986. This information is also applicable to post-1986 vehicles listed as unsuitable to use ethanol blended petrol.

Ethanol has a number of important chemical and physical properties that need to be considered in a vehicle's design.

Carburettor Equipped Engines

Vehicles made before 1986 vehicles were predominantly equipped with carburettors and steel fuel tanks.

The use of ethanol blended petrol in engines impacts the air/fuel ratio because of the additional oxygen molecules within the ethanol's chemical structure.

Vehicles with carburettor fuel systems may experience hot fuel handling concerns. This is because the vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol will be greater (if the base fuel is not chemically adjusted) and probability of vapour lock or hot restartability problems will be increased.

As a solvent, ethanol attacks both the metallic and rubber based fuels lines, and other fuel system components.

Ethanol also has an affinity to water that can result in corrosion of fuel tanks and fuel lines. Rust resulting from this corrosion can ultimately block the fuel supply rendering the engine inoperable. Water in the fuel system can also result in the engine hesitating and running roughly.

Fuel Injected Engines

In addition to the issues mentioned above for carburettor equipped engines, the use of ethanol blended petrol in fuel injection systems will result in early deterioration of components such as injector seals, delivery pipes, and fuel pump and regulator.

Mechanical fuel injection systems and earlier electronic systems may not be able to fully compensate for the lean-out effect of ethanol blended petrol, resulting in hesitation or flat-spots during acceleration.

Difficulty in starting and engine hesitation after cold start can also result.

Exhaust And Evaporative Emission Levels

Lean-out resulting from the oxygenating effect of ethanol in the fuel may affect exhaust emissions.

Of more concern is that fuel containing ethanol can increase permeation emissions from fuel system components, particularly those that have aged for nearly 20 years. Therefore the increased vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol (if the base fuel is not chemically adjusted at the refining stage) will lead to increased evaporative emissions.

just a note on christovers cut an paste.

These are all potential reasons, not set in concrete reasons. All over the world goverments have ran e10 in their fleet vehicles for testing all the result have been positive.

Brazil has had pure ethenol cars since 1981 (alternative fuel), a lot of these up until 98 are carbureted.

anyway to tired to counter-argue in detail but i especially like the one talking about water rusting fuelt tanks and fuel lines.

How many hardcore off roaders have posted a thread that thir fuel lines rusted out Sierra where built to survive many conditions and markest (one of which was south america... where low grade fuel is boosted by ethanol .. up to 25% sometimes)

im not impressed with the stuff and i doubt i will be using it anymore.

I reckon if it becomes mainstream enough, we will find carby kits to suit ethanol, and using efi fuel lines etc it will all be fine....but with the governments push to lpg, I think that would be best for now.
I think ethanol could be a good thing in the future, if planned for well.

Some South American countries run tetra ecu's which can mean use of petrol, ethanol, a mixture or lpg on the same vehicle..that be cool

christover

The zook owners manual says upto 10% is fine, it says 2 differant types, can't remember what they are though.

msh wrote:The zook owners manual says upto 10% is fine, it says 2 differant types, can't remember what they are though.

I'd like more info please.
What year and type of zook do you have?

I've often put metho in my fuel, to combat water, it's the same thing but not so high a concentration.
I think we'd all trust ethanol more if they didn't try to sneak it in covertly.

christover

I got a 95 sierra, manual printed in 1993.

Gasoline/ Ethanol Blends (grain alcohol) 10%, must have octane rating no lower than standard fuel

Gasoline/ Methanol Blends (wood alcohol) 5% may be suitable if they contain cosolvents and corrosion inhibitors. Do not use more than 5% Methanol.

Yeah made a mistake with the second one, only 5% not 10%

Can't argue with that, though I still wouldn't use it in older models till it was tried and tested by others first

My manual is for an 83 model, it states minimum 90Ron preferably unleaded. No mention of ethanol back then.
They were using ulp in Japan long before we wised up.
So even real old 1.olitres are ok on ulp, and mine was even better on it.

It would make sense to build cars to suit many markets.
I'd be interested to get people to check thier manuals, to see how far it goes back.

USA had efi sierras after a certain year, maybe thats related?
Thanks for the reply.

christover

87 drover manual says 85 ron or higher, preferably unleaded or low lead.

I run optimax in my zook 98 or what ever it is
anyways it usally still only works out to about 50 bucks a week so i got no problem with it plus the zook loves it

abit of a high jack .... has anyone run a zook on av gas

Methanol is much worst than ethanol as far as eating away at the engine components. in fact there is a good reason why methanol is not used to bump up octane rating . Think about it methanol is a by-product of petrol distilation. It is worst for emissions, has inferior fuel charateristics, etc etc (i could rant but most people tend to blank out by second point)

my owners manual is the original and it says sj413 even knowing my car is definetely a sj70


I was driving on my way home and i figured ethanol was like the proverbial bike, people put it in out of the blue then have the inevitable bad experience as it disloges or the gum and gunk built up over time and declare it is rubbish. Like the bike you need to have a few goes (prefible consectively) so your engine can come to terms with it.

All these points are good.
But the E10 stuff is only 3c a litre cheaper, has a slight loss in fuel economy, and negligible help for the enviroment.
If/when it gets cheaper by a much larger amount I will use it...or when we can convert to pure ethanol...prefer gas, but unlikely to happen.

christover

Pure ethanol... soon christopher soon. In time my Tequila will literally run on tequila

As for a loss of fuel economy i don't undersand you reasoning. All research i've looked into talk about gains in economy.

you will need more fuel for the car to run at optimum stoich....which is why you would have a "gain" in economy. It is not because E10 is some miracle fuel. It is because you need more of it to get a similar bang to normal 92ULP. However, you will get more power...and torque from using E10 blended fuel compared to standard 92 or even 98 octane rated Premium...

Santos wrote:Pure ethanol... soon christopher soon. In time my Tequila will literally run on tequila

As for a loss of fuel economy i don't undersand you reasoning. All research i've looked into talk about gains in economy.

No actual reasoning on that comment, just from a report in racv magazine, which is a reasonably accurate source, though not perfect by any means.
Also economy is related to cost, which I believe will skyrocket when we are all reliant on it. I'm a cynical old bloke
christover

http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelqu ... ljan02.pdf

Interesting opinions and information in this document