Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey Guys,

I was wondering how much would it cost to convert my Disco V8 Auto to take one of these engines (4cylinder 2.8L Turbo Diesel). I've been thinking about selling my disco lately and getting a Disco TDI, but I think there might be to much lose in money, plus I would have to transfer all my goodies over to the other disco, and worry about the 300 TDI issues aswell. From what I read the 4JB1T is a better engine. I know there's a 2.8TDI from International which is the improved 300TDI but it sells for $12000 which is a little rich for me, are there any other Diesel engines to consider for a conversion?

Anyways I would like to here other peoples thoughts on this.

Andy

Justin C .....over to you

The 4JB1T is a good option IMHO. I have seen a rangie with one and it went well. An adaptor plate to your ZF auto (and other bits) can be found here:

http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/index.ph ... y&cat_id=2

This is the one you need:

Product : Kits available for Range Rover ZF auto models
Part Number : Kit 209
Description : Isuzu 4JB1 / 4JG2 (2.8NA & 3.1T)
Price : £475 + vat
Download : KITS WITHOUT ENGINES.doc

The kits come complete with instructions.

The basic components normally comprise of the following :-

· ADAPTER PLATE AND/OR FLYWHEEL HOUSING.

· SPIGOT BEARING BUSH OR BEARING.

· ENGINE MOUNTING FEET AND FLEXIBLE MOUNTS.

· NUT AND BOLT KIT.

· INSTRUCTIONS.


A few kits include all or some of the following components :-

· FLYWHEEL.

· STARTER MOTOR.

· SUMP, LUB OIL.

COOLING COMPONENTS.

Pretty steep for just an adapter plate and a few other pieces, i would see if i could get one made locally then make a couple and sell them off to cover the conversion costs.

I'd love to put one of these in my 110 to replace the 3.5 V8. In a Rodeo they do about 3000 rpm @ 100km/h which is about right for the gearing I currently have.

The UK kits are pricey however and the engines arent that cheap to buy here either. It may be cheaper to buy a complete earlier model 2.8 Rodeo and part it out.

Loanrangie wrote:Pretty steep for just an adapter plate and a few other pieces, i would see if i could get one made locally then make a couple and sell them off to cover the conversion costs.

I don't think AUD$1170+shipping is too bad, but depends on exactly what is included. It may end up the same getting the bits made in OZ.

Alright for the kit from the UK it would cost about $1200, so how much would a 4JB1T cost then?

Andy

Andy_B wrote:Alright for the kit from the UK it would cost about $1200, so how much would a 4JB1T cost then?

Andy

Cheapest way would be to buy something like this:

http://www.fowles.com.au/auctions/lot.a ... er=2002225

NEW long motors here for $3500 (possibly non genuine???) - but no ancillaries:
http://www.japparts.com.au/products/engines.html

i can supply a cummins 3.9L 4cyl td with turbo 350 /400 for 5000 inc gst
very strong engine very torquey max revs 2500 but power right from the ground we have 2 in aus now both complete

try

www.engineconversions.co.uk

that's who i got my kit from, they are cheaper than m&d.

andy is your man there.

i think they used to be milner conversions or something.

m&d's main business is 2.8 powerstrokes these days i think rather than jap engine conversions. With the price of rusty discos falling these days and therefore landy tdi's, the engine conversion business is drying up a little i think.

i have read that the 4jb1 runs the same bolt pattern as the 4bd1, but that's only from one place and i've nothing to back this up with. if this is the case then you might be able to find something closer to home.

So $3500 for an engine, and $1200 for the adapters, plus another $2000 for exhaust and fitting (I'm just guessing). Plus I would sell the V8 and LPG gear which I think I could sell for a minimum of $1000. That's roughly $5800. That's not to bad I think.

Andy

Just do it, the kit is cheap for an engineered product. Don't forget if you get someone to make you a one off, it'll cost about the same if not more.

I sometimes wonder if I should've used a 4jb1T


JC

Andy_B wrote:So $3500 for an engine, and $1200 for the adapters, plus another $2000 for exhaust and fitting (I'm just guessing). Plus I would sell the V8 and LPG gear which I think I could sell for a minimum of $1000. That's roughly $5800. That's not to bad I think.

Andy

If you pay $2000 for an exhaust you are getting ripped big time, its only a length of pipe with a few bends in it nothing hi tech.

There's one on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Isuzu-4BD1-3-9-l ... dZViewItem

Cheers

Andrew

Andy_B wrote:So $3500 for an engine, and $1200 for the adapters, plus another $2000 for exhaust and fitting (I'm just guessing). Plus I would sell the V8 and LPG gear which I think I could sell for a minimum of $1000. That's roughly $5800. That's not to bad I think.

Andy

You should be able to get a good 2nd hand engine for under 3k. If you buy a new long motor for 3.5k you would probably still need to spend 2k or so on ancillaries.

If you buy the complete kit, fitting would be easy, so even if you were paying someone to do the work it should come in under 2k for fitting and exhaust.

These posts have me thinking, I've never really attempted anything like this, (I've only done basic basic mehanical stuff) that's why I think I would need someone to fit the engine and other bits. But I'm getting more and more interested in this idea the more I think about it.

Andy

Andy,
Don't forget that the ex truck engines are as noisy as anything, they may put out a little more kilowatts, but the detonation clatter is unbelievable.
Ex county is the way to go.

JC

Well I just got a phone call from my dad about 5 minutes ago saying that he will be moving out of Australia before Christmas for work. My parents have offered me their 2002 Prado TDi Auto, for about $12000-$15000. And it has the 2" lift with bilstein, Bull Bar, 275/70r16 BFG AT. Even though its not a Rover it's still a good deal. So i'm having some mixed thoughts right now about what to do.

Andy

BUY the Prado, good diesel engines etc and at 12 to 15K you have a steal.

( I actually like some Toyotas ...)

JC

justinC wrote:Andy,
Don't forget that the ex truck engines are as noisy as anything, they may put out a little more kilowatts, but the detonation clatter is unbelievable.
Ex county is the way to go.

JC

4JB1T is a lot more refined than a 4BD1. Quieter and less vibration and happier to work at higher revs.
Bell housings may well be the same as Isuzu use SAE bellhousings for compatibility with lots of different gearboxes. 4JB1T uses a SAE #4 bellhousing.

If the UK kit included engine mounts and flywheel there wouldnt be a lot extra to spend except: exhaust connection, radiator outlet mods, power steer/AC pump brackets, throttle cable, clutch. Probably another 1k on top of kit + engine price.

BUT, for that price, buy the Prado.

justinC wrote:BUY the Prado, good diesel engines etc and at 12 to 15K you have a steal.

( I actually like some Toyotas ...)

JC

Bite your tongue jc, a playdo would have to be one of the worst shopping trolley chick trucks around, i'd rather push my old rangie than been seen driving one of those overpriced yuppy school kid carting pieces of sh@te, most people who drive them seem to think they must always drive faster and push in front of other (cheaper) 4by's. $190 to fill and approx. 1000k's for that

Forgot to add my mate bought an 05' model playdo for his missus (yuppy wannabe) and after i took him for a spin in my disco, he wanted to get rid of it !

Mark2 wrote: Bell housings may well be the same as Isuzu use SAE bellhousings for compatibility with lots of different gearboxes. 4JB1T uses a SAE #4 bellhousing.

The 4BD1 uses a bellhousing pattern that is CLOSE to an SAE#3 but not quite the same.

Justin, the truck and perentie 4BD1s are 85Bhp, while the county 4BD1s are 99Bhp, so the county engines actually have more power. By fitting the sound deadening rocker cover to a truck engine and slightly retarding the timing you can get the as quiet as a LR engine.

justinC wrote:Just do it, the kit is cheap for an engineered product. Don't forget if you get someone to make you a one off, it'll cost about the same if not more.

I sometimes wonder if I should've used a 4jb1T


JC

and then you get a pinch and told to stop dreaming

i think i'd prefer a 4bd1 as i'd like more power and i thin a 4 litre engine is a good size for a reasonably big 4x4, get to compete with patrol's and landcruisers at least.

in fairness i think the grass is always greener on the other side. in the 4jb1's favour it is very smooth (smoother than a common rail vw passat engine) and quite wee and light and gets 30mpg.

my main gripe is revs i suppose, it has to rev a bit harder at say 70mph and i'd prefer it to be a bit lower (no idea of rpm as i dont have a tacho) and its kind of what i'm used to from modern diesels, so maybe a big diesel would be better in that respect.

regarding the kits, you get mounts adaptor ring , all fixiings, um...cant remember what else, but there were a few other things. what you had to do yourself was, find hoses, mate up power steering (isuzu pump is used). you're on your own for a fiar bit of the wiring and the isuzu QOS (quick on start) systemis a bugger to wire. i've substituted it with my own timer system. you can, if you want to run without glow plugs. the starter is really strong and it fires on the first revolution always.

i can scan the instructions i got with mine if you like. i bought the exhaust downpipe at the same time for £65 as i was getting help installing it at someone else's house and didn't want to be foolign around fabbing exhausts. you could make your own if you wanted though.

i'm currently sorting out an intercooler, so i'll see if this improves performance a decet ammount. they're only 100bhp as standard so there's afair bit to come i think. i've read allegations of 200bhp from a 4jg2, but i'm slightly sceptical, although the mods were performed by allard, a big uk firm who tune turbos and will have dyno'd it.

My thoughts.... (I have both a stock 4BD1 110 with LT85 and a 4JB1-T 90 with ZF auto.

Comparison of Isuzus;

4BD1
More torque down low
A bit rattly (but who cares?)

4JB1-T
Freer revving
With the turbo kicked in more power (although my auto zaps that away than when compared to the 4BD1 and manaul)
Much smoother and quiter
Starts on the button

Despite the differences, both are top engines.

I picked up the conversion for 4JB1 to auto (with engine & box attached) from a wrecked Rangie in the UK so all the extra bits I picked off there and made it relative straight forwards conversion. Not that there is anything difficult about it all. I wish I had of stuck a spare 4JB1 in the back of the 90 when I imported it out here.... have seen them ebayed in the UK for 100pounds (AU$250)!

I prefer driving the 90 for the fact that it has the auto. If the 110 had an auto well then it would be to close to call which would be the nicer to drive.

Callum wrote;

and the isuzu QOS (quick on start) systemis a bugger to wire. i've substituted it with my own timer system. you can, if you want to run without glow plugs. the starter is really strong and it fires on the first revolution always.

With the QOS - rip it off and throw it away (although not even sure if the aussie 4JB1's had this on them?). Not needed. I have never seen a diesel start any better than the 4JB1. First touch of the key and she fires up. In below zero temperatures over night would still start no problems with no glow plugs attached. Wiring up the glow plugs (which I have done now but never use) is straight forwards you dont need to set them up like how they are in the Jackeroo or rodeo.

I could be tempted to rip out the adaptor plate etc and get it copied for you (more tempted if others were interested) seeing as though i have the car half apart at present..... being uted! Certainly I could help with pictures/advise.

interesting to hear from someone with two lawns.

4jb1's are really cheap here, as the troopers (bighorn, not sure what the holden derivative is) they are in rust to hell. i got a whole car for £100, adapter cost much more than the actual engine, but if it ever goes wrong big style then its cheap to replace, unlike a tdi.

regarding the qos system, i think in aus it's not necessary, maybe worth wiring in the plugs without timer for very cold mornings and just flicking it on for a few seconds (up to 3). in defence of the system, it is very good and is designed to start the engine in -30degrees, in 3 seconds. despite someone sending me a reverse engineered schematic of a qos box, i stil didn't understand how to get it working, i had a wiring diagram for qos1 and qos3, but none for my qos2 and decided to use my own timer. so at the moment i have a 3 second timer to operate the plugs at 12v and then when i get time i'll stick in the dropping resistor so they run for the additional 30 secs at 5v.

i still wouldn't disagree with you though, even here where it gets to minus temperatures in the winter reasonably frequently it still starts easily and could do so without the plugs, but having the plugs going and the especially the after glow really reduces start up smoke, which is nice. i dont know what this does for engine wear or anything, but i presume it is good.

what sort of KW or bhp are turbo'd 4bd1's putting out?

callum wrote:
what sort of KW or bhp are turbo'd 4bd1's putting out?

Stock about 125-135Bhp (depending on pump specs). A fair bit more if ost and fuelling are tweaked.

i can scan the instructions i got with mine if you like. i bought the exhaust downpipe at the same time for £65 as i was getting help installing it at someone else's house and didn't want to be foolign around fabbing exhausts. you could make your own if you wanted though.
.

A scan of the instructions with the kit would be great ! So the kit included engine mounts? What flywheel and clutch does it use? Any issues with sump clearance to the diff? What was the biggest hassle apart from the glow system?

I just got off the phone with Andy at
http://www.engineconversions.co.uk/ who was very helpful.
The kit includes engine mount brackets and rubber mounts which bolt to original chassis mounts, bellhousing adaptor, all bolts, and clutch fork extension. It uses the isuzu flywheel and pressure plate with a landrover 9.5" driven plate. He also said not to worry about wiring the glow system and use the Isuzu power steer pump with hose adaptors. Viscous fan will sit back and outside radiator shroud - not an issue in UK but may need electric fan here in Aus, possibly OK with V8 radiator. Slight bonnet clearance issue but only if using a top mount intercooler, otherwise all is good.

Price is 300 pounds, freight to Australia is 135 pounds, so could be landed here about AUD$1000. Thats about what you'd pay for a basic conversion kit here with engine mounts.

Mark2 wrote:I just got off the phone with Andy at
http://www.engineconversions.co.uk/ who was very helpful.
The kit includes engine mount brackets and rubber mounts which bolt to original chassis mounts, bellhousing adaptor, all bolts, and clutch fork extension. It uses the isuzu flywheel and pressure plate with a landrover 9.5" driven plate. He also said not to worry about wiring the glow system and use the Isuzu power steer pump with hose adaptors. Viscous fan will sit back and outside radiator shroud - not an issue in UK but may need electric fan here in Aus, possibly OK with V8 radiator. Slight bonnet clearance issue but only if using a top mount intercooler, otherwise all is good.

Price is 300 pounds, freight to Australia is 135 pounds, so could be landed here about AUD$1000. Thats about what you'd pay for a basic conversion kit here with engine mounts.

Did you ask him why the kit for a ZF Auto is 95GBP more?