Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Ok, im almost ready to do a SOA,waiting for rego,but after that its full steem ahead. just got a set of Rancho 9000's, and some extended lines, got a mate u can do the welding job, hes good.

Need to know what else i need, like the shafts need extending do they not??

Also the steering??
U bolts??
Do i need new shock mounts on the axle or not??
With the perches for the springs, i got a coupla axles lying around with good bottom perches on them.
Insted of making them could i cut em off the bottom of other axles and put on top of mine??

ive got a whole bunch of pics of a spring over, just need some explenation, ill prob get started in about 6 weeks and will post a topic with pics of progress.

would also like to know probs poeple had?

Last but not least, has anyone got any parts left over from a springover i could snatch up for the right price?

cheers,

Screwy

see thread.....

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... php?t=7890

there's a few pics of mine there that may help

thanks for the link,
have other q's though

1. does the drive shafts need playing with?
2. do u have to play with the steering?
3. do u have to change the diff angle?
4. Do u have to play with shock mounts?
5. can i use spring perches cut off from another MQ axle (bottom ones) and weld them on the top?

these are my initial q's. will have a few more following the answers.

cheers

1. does the drive shafts need playing with?

Yes...lengthened, front "ABOUT" 60mm. rear "ABOUT"50mm

2. do u have to play with the steering?

There's pics in the link of whats required, look again

3. do u have to change the diff angle?

I did..... helps line up driveshaft angles.... see link
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... php?t=8732

4. Do u have to play with shock mounts?

Yes... new ones need to be made aswell as new top plates for the spring paks. I used 65mm rhs for this and the pearches

5. can i use spring perches cut off from another MQ axle (bottom ones) and weld them on the top?

why not !!!. but how are you going to cut them neat enuff?angle grinder cant reach all the welds unless you cut the axletube and thats a waste of a spare diff, oxy will leave dags and remove excessive material, easier to make new ones from 65mm rhs and weld em on than trying to weld up a hacked off pearch that sits incorectly/poorly to start with.

1. ok, so how do i go about lengthening the shafts reletiveley cheaply?

2. With the steering i can c clearly what uve done, i just wasnt sure if u HAD to do anything. also with that, all uve done there is taken the drag link off and re attachted in to the top ot the swivel hub correct??
ir so wouldnt u lose some of ur turning circle?

3. with the angle on the diff, sounds like a royal pain in the butt, if i doesnt HAVE to be done i dont think i will, unless ill have problems with the uni not having enough angle??

4. Y is it u have to play with the shock mounts? as far as i can c longer shocks is all thats needed. Also y do u have to change the top plate for the spring pack? y cant it all just be flipped around?

5. ok i see ur point with the perches.

cheers

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:3. with the angle on the diff, sounds like a royal pain in the butt, if i doesnt HAVE to be done i dont think i will, unless ill have problems with the uni not having enough angle??
cheers

why is it gonna be a pain? you will be welding new spring perches on the axlles, so you can set the rear pinion angle to wherever you want. the front isn't gonna be so flexible because of the cast centre. but you will probably be twisting the knuckles on him for castor anyways..

i think its more the fact that i have no idea in christ how to do it (change the diff angles that is).

they won't be attatched to anything. you'll be able to grasp them with your hands and change the angles.

Are you using ryans old diffs? If not why not experiment with them?!?!

Yeah ive got Ryans old gear, i might experiment with one of em outa the car ( i have like 5 ).

So with that angle change, all u do is leave the tyres on the ground and change the diff angle and weld the new perches at a different angle??

Have a chat to dumbdunce, he had a good look at mine when i was about to go down that path and he will be able to advise in the driveline angles

just line the diff driveshaft connector as striaght as possible with the transfer box then weld on ya perches.
Im just goin to do it by eye.
_
_/ = bad angle



these holidays im goin to take the plunge and giv it a crack.
steering is only thing confusing me.
With the drive shafts is putting a spacer in between the dif and driveshaft the best way of giving them more length or do i actually have to extend the tube?

another thing, im gona be using 2 inch springs and extended front shackles with my soa not too mantion the 2 inch body lift.

will this affect flex or ride or anything?

V8 patrol ur help has been fantastic, this q and the rest above would be great to get answered to, by anyone who knows waht they are talking about for that matter

1. ok, so how do i go about lengthening the shafts reletiveley cheaply?

easy if you have access to a lathe...if not best left to the experts....they charge around the $150 each shaft.

2. With the steering i can c clearly what uve done, i just wasnt sure if u HAD to do anything. also with that, all uve done there is taken the drag link off and re attachted in to the top ot the swivel hub correct??
ir so wouldnt u lose some of ur turning circle?

100% correct, as for turning circle I actually GAINED due to 2 reasons, 1st being that 10degrees castor in the front diff, 2nd being the shorter distance between the tirod end and the hub bearings>>> the tirod end originally sat 45mm further away from the kingpin centres.

3. with the angle on the diff, sounds like a royal pain in the butt, if i doesnt HAVE to be done i dont think i will, unless ill have problems with the uni not having enough angle??

the rear dif is a piece of cake, simply put the pearches on the diff and lower the vehicle back down onto the diff so its in the "normal position, then with a jack simply put it under the front of the diff and jack it up to point towards the transfer flange, tack the pearches in place, pull the diff back out and weld solid, DONE.
As for the front diff its exactly the same process all the way. Now the trickey bit, rotating the front hubs.... You will see there's a weld around the axeltube and hub, simply take to it with a grinder and cut in the middle of the weld and to a depth of NO MORE than 6mm, then with the axles and bearings removed heat the axletube for the first 2 inches and with a length of pipe ( or what ever ya got ....I use a crowbar) slip it down the kingpin bearing holes and rotate to the desired angle... allow to cool NATURALLY. Once one side is done and ya happy get 2 piece's of 20mm square tube about 6foot long ( thats what use )..... need these in a tic.... heat the other side up and rotate to the desired angle.
Now for the trick bit...While the 2nd side is still hot, place one of the 20mm square tubes on the top of the kingpin bearing on the 1st side you did, do the same to the other side then you can see if the 2 20mm sq.tubes sit parralell, if not adjust the 2nd side so that the 2 20mm square tubes are paralell... allow to cool.....use a WIA16TC welding rod and weld it up....paint in cheatu de black.....refit diff>>>>FINISHED!!!!!
two people can do this in around 3 hours, so for the "unsure" allow an arvo.

4. Y is it u have to play with the shock mounts? as far as i can c longer shocks is all thats needed. Also y do u have to change the top plate for the spring pack? y cant it all just be flipped around?

Tried the "flip" around thing but run into complications with differing heights. The prob is the original plates still move heightwise in relation to the diff with the SOA...IE originally they are under the springpak and after the SOA they are on top of the pak...thats a diff of whatever ya springpak thickness is and the thickness of the plate too...mine was 58mm for the pak and 10mm for the plate, so the shocka now has 68mm LESS travel using the original plates.....arent we trying to GAIN travel??? .

5. ok i see ur point with the perches.

get some 65mm heavywall sq tube....its the same stuff they use to make the "Haymen Reese" towbars with ( the bit the actuall towbar slips into.)

The cost of a SOA depends greatly on your ability to make, modify, or just plain having a go. Dont get scared of this SOA thing it really is quite simple and anyone can do it in a w/end . If in doubt ASK....oh and ASK the people that HAVE actually done one, this way they KNOW what they are actually talking about !
If ya need pics etc, just ask, it takes me 2 mins to do a pic that may save you hours of work.
I'll be doing another SOA on a MQ mid December if ya wanna wait for more detailed pics, other alternative is get it here or send the "scary" parts down and I'll do em 4 ya!

opps...
foot note I forgot to add....

The original castor angle for a MQ Patrol is 2.8 to 3 degrees, once the springpaks soften with age as they do that angle is reduced. I have seen negitave castor in one unit .... negitave castor WILL give sever steering wobbles..... death under braking !!!!
The reason I go with the 10 degrees is raceing cars run around the 10 to 15 degrees, rally cars run around the 15 degrees, drag cars run up to 20 degrees, drag bikes run off the scale!!!, so I wanted an angle that would remain positave at ALL times even if the springpak went inverted it would still be positave castor.
4 to 7 degrees castor would be fine but if ya cutting it I figured 10 was bigger so it naturally had to be better, I did think of setting em up at 13 degrees but went for the 10.... I cant fault it at all, its awsome off road, and from zero to 160+ it runs straight down the bitcheum and has never shuddered since.

I'll get a couple of pics of the front end at full lock and you will see why it turns so sharply and why it "bites" when off road.

just a curious thought that I had...
running the 10 degrees of castor might be fixing your shimmy because as the kingpin rotation inclines backwards it is getting rid of some of the massive amounts of positive camber that MQ's run?
I was having shimmy problems with the MQ knuckles I put on my GQ housing, and changing castor just changed the speed at which it would start to want to shake. Everything in the front end was pretty new and tight, so It never actually turned into a death wobble, but you could feel it trying to start.
Measured the camber as 1.75deg +
Bought some 2deg offset trunion bearings, put them in, completely different car, so much nicer to drive, it is ridiculous. Less bumpsteer and kickback as well, as the tyre is loaded up within the projected angle of the steering axis..
I think Nissan even realise this, as if you look at a GU front axle, the steering axis is twisted to the - about another 5deg or so..
what do you think??

This help is great thanks guys, ive got all i need i think
at least for now.

cheers.