Outer Limits 4x4 Board

What Mods to improve handling at higher speeds for a winch challenge vehicle.

What I have learnt from talking to people!

Longer trailing arms.
Twin shockies all round.
Stiffer springs.
Sway bars.
Coil overs.
More weight transfered to the tray.

Coil overs is not an option as the cost involved.
Sway bars maybe but what about when you need the flex on the same stage.

What are your thoughts.

LudaCris

Ive been thinking about this as well.

Alot of guys down here tend to run light springs and properly valved shocks.... Whether it be twins/kings/fox

I dont know about more weight in the tray, I think it more about balance, so it is weithed evenly over every tyre.

I think the people who have said that may have added more weight to the back and found it handled better because it was balanced...?

Dave.

True. Balanced weight over all wheels. How about the longer trailing arms. Do you think they will help.

LudaCris

Most important is properly designed suspension with appropriate roll centre, squat/antisquat, etc. Some of the suspension gurus on here can probably help you with that.

get the front wheels further forward. gq's have way to much weight infront of the diff, especially with a big steel bar n a winch.

i am also with the idea of good valved shocks. you dont need an overly soft coil for flex, and you dont need overly stiff for stable. so some good quality suspension and a bit of work on weight distribution should make it handle well

fox shocks. nothing has made a bigger difference to my trucks feel. I would choose them over a v8 in a comp vehicle they are that good. go for the triple bypass up front. feels really good turning at speed. also i fitted 3rds arms 80 series style (no swivel)

FWIW, the Paris-Dakar Pajeros run "Long travel" (yeah, I know, it's independent all round ) suspension with a hydraulic (I think) anti-roll system which doesn't restrict cross-axle articulation. So they've got soft and supple suspension for coping with rough stuff, but minimal body roll during cornering.

Having beam axles to control increases the challenge at speed, but obviously pays off with extra travel in the slow and rough stuff. But the basics should still be the same.

A softer spring should transmit less suspension movement to the chassis, for smoother ride. But the extra travel in the suspension will put extra heat into your shock absorbers, so you need to get that heat back out. Larger fluid volume to absorb the heat from the damping, and larger surface area to help dissipate the heat from the fluid. Multiple shocks is probably the best way - I don't know the OME LTR concept is optimum for competition.

And even distribution of weight is important here too, or you NEED stiffer springs at one end or the other.

I can't see that stiffer springs help in any way, other than for anti-squat/anti-dive - which I thought was a suspension design issue.

The wieght issue is interesting. I had a swb patrol wit the TD42 with a PTO winch and heavy bullbar. I think for fast stuff it had a little to much wieght on the front for speed. But it was easy to drive fast.
I now have a swb TB42 on gas with an alloy bullbar and only 1 batt. I find this thing must almost be 50/50 front/rear weight. But I find it understeers bad when pushed into a cnr. It also lifts LH front wheel when thrown into a cnr on road. So speed in the bush is no where near as comfortable.

I havent put it on scales to find the wieght. But have managed to balance it crossed up on 2 wheels. AQ couple oftimes.

Although I'm not going to have a truck to do this to. I've done a fair bit of research into it. Go to a decent dual rate spring that will give you a compliant ride at normal drive and will stiffen up for the big bumps. This is where coil overs are great because they usually have 2 springs per shock. It doesn't have to be expensive. Neil Cooper made his own sleeves that he fitted to some shocks on his hilux. Home made coil overs. Match these to some good shocks or maybe dual shocks. If you can get some dual stage shocks would be better but just shocks that match the spring rates that you are running. Adjustable shocks are a good way if you need to guess. You can fit a torsion bar across the vehicle similar to a sway bar. Have a look at some of the big $$ setups to see what I mean. The torsion bar alone shouldn't cost too much. Guys are moving towards compliable suspension that stiffens up under quick compression and rebound. One of the best things you can do is move all your running gear (engine, gearbox, transfer) and the body backwards on your chassis. Not as hard as you may think. You only need to move it about 200mm.


Steve

Weight disturbution is a good point.My hybrid truck is excellent of road.Motor is behind the front axle and near mid mounted.Wieght is alomst 50/50 front /rear.This gives realy good balance and traction.Have gone places that diff locked vehicles have needed to use there diff locks.Been in situations were others thought well he`s going to tip for sure and haven`t.On road,well there is room for improvement.Mainly in cornering.That mainly due to the fixed geomertry of a beam axle and can`t be changed.
Cheers

ludacris wrote:True. Balanced weight over all wheels. How about the longer trailing arms. Do you think they will help.

LudaCris

Keeps the axle better aligned when articulating over the fast rough stuff.

ludacris wrote: Sway bars maybe but what about when you need the flex on the same stage.

What about an Anti-Rock style sway bar ?

[quote="Hekta"][quote="ludacris"]
Sway bars maybe but what about when you need the flex on the same stage.
[/quote]

What about an Anti-Rock style sway bar ?[/quote]

Do you have any photos.

LudaCris

bit off topic but on sort of aswell, how nice is Kym Boltons setup. saw it today and was amazed at the engineering that has gone into that truck. he has antirock setup in his so you could always ask him this weekend, or cass jones who set it up, i think.....

Cool have seen his anti rock setup and is very nice. Superior Allignments set it up for him. Vey nice indeed.

LudaCris

tuff355's truck beat him in the speed stages and it just has dual fronts and water tank, reserve tank and a larger (im guessing) main tank in the rear. i like his truck too, very nice sounding motor..... gotta stop going to mikes shop so often

For high speed stability you need to run higher Castor, this gives better self-centreing and more feel where the wheels are pointed.
Longer arms reduce Castor change inproving stability
J Top

I have a Cheezy anti rock type swaybar on the rear of mine (A frame) and it is sensational at speed.........................

Longer trailing arms, better quality shockies, Swaybar dosconnects, and airbags - that's my list of onraod improvements & I'm happy....
although I'l be changing my swaybar setup shortly.
BTW one problem with the Currie antir rocks is thay can be either too tight or too loose.....really you want something tou can adjust in the fly....

Red paint and a ferrari sticker?

ludacris wrote:What Mods to improve handling at higher speeds for a winch challenge vehicle.

What I have learnt from talking to people!

Longer trailing arms.
Twin shockies all round.
Stiffer springs.
Sway bars.
Coil overs.
More weight transfered to the tray.

Coil overs is not an option as the cost involved.
Sway bars maybe but what about when you need the flex on the same stage.

What are your thoughts.

LudaCris

Are you talking about high sspeed for the black stuff or only in the competition environment...?

High speed in competition is what I am talking about.

Ludacris

wats the matter with it now?

you are asking for improvements but not saying what its doin wrong??

body roll?
harsh ride?
steering?

The rear end just wants to slide out when you are turning at speed. What I am considering is more weight balance, twin shockies allround and longer trailing arms top and bottom which will stop rear steering.

LudaCris

ludacris wrote:The rear end just wants to slide out when you are turning at speed. What I am considering is more weight balance, twin shockies allround and longer trailing arms top and bottom which will stop rear steering.

LudaCris

wat link configuration do u have in the rear at the moment?

Adjustable pahnard in the rear at the moment.

LudaCris

twin shocks can be too stiff for the rear of a light truck causing it to skip on braking bumps etc.

ludacris wrote:Adjustable pahnard in the rear at the moment.

LudaCris

IMHO triangulated 3 or 4 link with no panhard would work better.