Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Righto, this one is a little odd and convoluted, but bear with me:

I rolled a Rocky ages back and eventually decided to part it out and sell it off. All was going well, if a little slowly, selling axles, drive shafts, transmission and so forth.

I was storing the car under a tarp in a University car park where I live (I live on campus). A week ago, there were a few notices on the car saying I had one week to remove the car from the premises, or they would tow it away. That wasn't so bad, because I was planning on taking everything of value off it and dumping the body (which was actually the only part damaged in the roll). So I spent last weekend pulling what else I wanted off it, storing that and generally getting ready for the car to be towed. Last night I finally pulled the engine out and put the tarp over that in front of the car.

I had not heard from whoever was planning the tow, so today I tried to track them down. After a few phone calls, I found the guys responsible (some parking service unit at the uni), and asked them what they had planned, whether they needed help, what needed to be cleaned up and so forth. He said she's cool, they just get some crew to come tow it away, I can clean up the glass (some dickhead through a brick through the window of it a couple of weeks ago) and shit afterwards. So all good.

Had a couple of friends check on the car this arvo, and it is not there. And neither is my engine! They also apparently left some big gashes in the car park. Anyway, I call the parking dudes back and ask what's the go, where is my engine? They say you'll have to ring the lads that towed it away "So & So towing". I gave them a call, and he was honest with me: "Shit sorry mate, I just figured I had to take the engine as well! Usually these are dumped cars and we are called up to get rid of it all.". So anyway, this guy dumped the whole lot at a wreckers.

So, another call to the wreckers, to ask if I can get my engine back - "Oh shit mate, we bought the car and engine off the towing guys, just for the engine! We wouldn't have taken it otherwise.", "Damn, so I'm up the creek then I guess", "Yeah, guess so.".

So how's that? The towing company inadvertantly towed my engine away, and has sold it to someone else. That's almost theft, but a little hard to make a case out of I think. Certainly an interesting experience.

That sux, you seem very cool about it all.

I would be

You call the towing company and tell them to bring your engine back.

dayam

at least you got a free tow and disposal right?

if you own the car the engine number will be on your rego,
report the car stolen and tell the police where the motor is.
this is the extreme way, but some people have to be taught a lesson.
if you get in touch with the right department ( second hand dealers squad???) they can go to the wreckers and demand to see proof of ownership for every motor and chassis.
that will fcuk them

modman

F*ck that mate, I'm with modman...I'd "politely" call the wreckers back and ask them to see proof of ownership...no doubt they'll say they bought it of the towie guys...that's fine, so then ask them for proof of clear title, etc ... or did they just buy a stolen engine? In which case seeing as they've now been notified of the registered owner you'd appreciate it if you could have it dropped back.

If not, go to the cops...there's absofuckinglutely no legal standing that the wreckers can use.

I hate to state the obvious but if you were warned by the Uni parking guys it would get towed. The uni is private property and they have every right to dispose of rubbish left on it after taking reasonable steps to notify the owner. By the sounds of it you even consented to the removal.

The tow compnay has a legal right to sell salvaged vehicles which they legally obtain, in this case they legally obtained it from the Uni which had the right to dispose of the vehilce as per the warning and stuff they gave you.


No such thing as a free luch, and I can't understand why you are suprissed it went down like it did. What did you expect / If you left it in my parking lot I would have done the same thing.

I reckon there will be some sort of legal standing as to the towing and selling of the engine. Pursuing this thru legal matters will be $$$$$ and is it worth it in the long run. It may not be right or fair but you'll find that it will be pretty much a lost cause trying to sort it out.

I had a valiant with a blown motor sitting out the front of my house in South Melbourne for a couple of months. A letter appeared saying if i don't mve it it will be towed in 14 days. next day it was gone. i called the council (they posted the note) who told me who they contract to tow, rang them they said they didn't tow it, rang other towing companies no one towed it. Called the cops to report the issue. they said not much they could do other other asking the companies if they had it, no they din't. Came down to did I want to make a report try insurance (it wasn't insured) or cut my loses. i cut my loses as i was planning on getting rid of it anyway

report it stolen,see what happens, doesn't cost anything and i will bet the wreckers don't want the cops around asking questions.
i asked a friend of mie who owns a wrecking yard, he reckons that reporting it is the go.

modman

Hrmmm... it doesn't sound like anyone was trying to rob you so it would be a little harsh to report it stolen without talking to them again first. Ring the towing guys and tell them you don't want to be a c*** but you really need the motor, they weren't meant to take it, and you'll have to take it further if they won't return it. I wouldn't actually *threaten* to report it stolen... just kinda present the argument that "technically, I could say that motor was stolen and it's still registered to my name."

Chances are it will be pretty easy for them to get the engine back from the wrecker if they return the wrecker's money. I am pretty sure that if they consider whether they'd (a) rather keep it and have you report it stolen or (b) just return it there's a good chance they'll go with (b).

On the other hand, if you actually report it stolen you may find you don't have a leg to stand on, since frankly the uni was probably entitled to take the whole lot away. So you're better off getting it back without resorting to that.

Be nice about it, and you might be lucky. By the way, it's kinda rude to wreck a car in someone else's car park, you know.

Cheers,

Jason

chimpboy wrote:By the way, it's kinda rude to wreck a car in someone else's car park, you know.

But yet it's still kinda funny and cool at the same time

Thanks for all the replies so far. It is very interesting to read the various opinions. You've basically covered all the reactions I played through my head (and had suggested to me by peers).

Firstly, I live and pay board at the uni, and have some entitlement to using the facilities. Admittably though, there is no mention of car wrecking in the contract

Secondly, when I got the notice, I thought that's cool - if they want to do it then that saves me the hassle. I was planning on dumping the body to a recycler or something pretty shortly anyway. Naively I thought wrapping the engine up in a tarp and seperating it from the car would suggest that it was not part of the car and that I had plans for it. It all happended a little quickly I suppose - I worked till dark on Monday getting the motor out, phoned the parking people (who acted a bit strange about the whole thing, they didn't really seem to want to know me) the next morning while at work.

I thought I'd actually be either helping the towing crew do the job (since the thing didn't have axles - a few blokes lifting the body would have saved the gouges being ripped in the uni car park as the tow guy dragged it onto his truck!), or that they'd decide they'd prefer I did it (I had a car trailer with winch lined up) to save them the cost/hassle. I was kind of brushed off, and by the time a mate had a chance to check on it, it was all gone.

A few of my mates are dead keen on getting the towing guys to either pay me for the motor, or get it back to me. But I'm a little more hesitant - I foresee a lot of tooing and froing between the wreckers, the towing co and the uni, all trying to lay blame. And I'm not standing the most solid of grounds - I'm a lowly student with the towing notice.

Perhaps I should cut my losses (as much as I would dearly love a potential $400-$500) for the sake of getting it off my hands. I'd have to store it and transport the engine myself until I found another buyer.

Another note to make - uni security are well aware of what I was doing and who I am. Hell, they helped out a couple of times. Also with the warden. It was these 'parking people' who posted the anonymous page giving a weeks notice (given that I work during the week, it was more like one day and one evening notice for me).

Thanks for your responses, this continues to be an 'interesting' experience!

Oh, one other thing. The towing guy and the wreckers wouldn't have a clue what condition the motor is in. I can just imagine the towing guy trying to sell an unknown motor to a wrecker. He could well have been ripped off.

Brad wrote:I hate to state the obvious but if you were warned by the Uni parking guys it would get towed. The uni is private property and they have every right to dispose of rubbish left on it after taking reasonable steps to notify the owner. By the sounds of it you even consented to the removal.

The tow compnay has a legal right to sell salvaged vehicles which they legally obtain, in this case they legally obtained it from the Uni which had the right to dispose of the vehilce as per the warning and stuff they gave you.


No such thing as a free luch, and I can't understand why you are suprissed it went down like it did. What did you expect / If you left it in my parking lot I would have done the same thing.

Sorry, if someone tows my car they have absolutely no legal right whatsoever to immediately sell my car without at first - regardless of where I'm parked. They might be able to charge me a fair bit to get it back, but they sure as hell can't sell the thing (or bits of it).

Ben wrote:

Brad wrote:I hate to state the obvious but if you were warned by the Uni parking guys it would get towed. The uni is private property and they have every right to dispose of rubbish left on it after taking reasonable steps to notify the owner. By the sounds of it you even consented to the removal.

The tow compnay has a legal right to sell salvaged vehicles which they legally obtain, in this case they legally obtained it from the Uni which had the right to dispose of the vehilce as per the warning and stuff they gave you.


No such thing as a free luch, and I can't understand why you are suprissed it went down like it did. What did you expect / If you left it in my parking lot I would have done the same thing.

Sorry, if someone tows my car they have absolutely no legal right whatsoever to immediately sell my car without at first - regardless of where I'm parked. They might be able to charge me a fair bit to get it back, but they sure as hell can't sell the thing (or bits of it).

I agree with that, I would be trying to get the money back off of the towing place....wouldn't they have to notify you first that they have towed your car and if you don't do something about it soon then they may sell it. Sounds a bit odd to me...

The towing guy claims he didn't know there was an owner. He said the uni usually call him up to tow dumped/stolen cars away. But still, it sounds a bit dodge to go selling it. The notice on the car said that a police check had been conducted and the car was not reported stolen.

So it'll probably come back to the uni guys, and what they required of the towing company. When I first spoke to them, they plainly told me the towing guys would pick the car up and dump it in their yard.

But the uni guys aren't being particular nice about it. I received a call this morning telling me that I better get out and clean up the mess left by the towing guy very soon (before the boss checks it out). I said I'd get on to it as soon as possible (as I originally said I would), but he seemed to want it sooner. Bit hard seeing I'm working till late each day until the weekend. Bit hard for me when they decide to tow on a Tuesday.

Heh, I even mentioned that the towing operation had left some nasty gashes in the car park, and asked if he'd seen them. He said he hadn't, but I'd probably have to pay for it. I couldn't help laughing at that. He didn't push it further than that though.

Perhaps I should have chased up with him what they required the towing company to do, and whether they were aware they had sold the car without asking me. But he wasn't the most amiable bloke on the phone.

Heathx4 wrote:
Firstly, I live and pay board at the uni, and have some entitlement to using the facilities. Admittably though, there is no mention of car wrecking in the contract



I thought I'd actually be either helping the towing crew do the job (since the thing didn't have axles - a few blokes lifting the body would have saved the gouges being ripped in the uni car park as the tow guy dragged it onto his truck!), or that they'd decide they'd prefer I did it (I had a car trailer with winch lined up) to save them the cost/hassle. I was kind of brushed off, and by the time a mate had a chance to check on it, it was all gone.

A few of my mates are dead keen on getting the towing guys to either pay me for the motor, or get it back to me. But I'm a little more hesitant - I foresee a lot of tooing and froing between the wreckers, the towing co and the uni, all trying to lay blame. And I'm not standing the most solid of grounds - I'm a lowly student with the towing notice.

No rental contract ever allows you to do this sort of stuff - if you kick up a fuss they could kick you off campus for breach of contract....

Secondly there is the issue of damage to the carpark... the university would probably be able to take action either directly from you (knowing it was your car and that you were wrecking it illegaly as above) or against the towing company for the damage to the car park.

I guarantee the "repair costs" for the car park if someone did the sums for the damage would be way way higher than the money you may have got for the engine.

I'd be recommending that you drop it....

Heathx4 wrote:The towing guy claims he didn't know there was an owner. He said the uni usually call him up to tow dumped/stolen cars away.

The towing company still has to check/report it to the police to find out whether it really was dumped/stolen - an attempt has to be made to contact the owner.

Hell there's been cars parked around the pub for so long we assumed they were dumped/stolen, we've rung the cops and nup, its just a case that the owner's are useless.

EEEKKKK, Ye gods Heath, what a pain in the backside. Even though I have more intimate knowledge of the circumstances that most, I would not be sure which way to go, especially as how laws down there are probably a bit different that up here. Am I driving round on stolen property??? Lol. Hope it works out for you mate.

Cheers
David

Ben wrote:

Brad wrote:I hate to state the obvious but if you were warned by the Uni parking guys it would get towed. The uni is private property and they have every right to dispose of rubbish left on it after taking reasonable steps to notify the owner. By the sounds of it you even consented to the removal.

The tow compnay has a legal right to sell salvaged vehicles which they legally obtain, in this case they legally obtained it from the Uni which had the right to dispose of the vehilce as per the warning and stuff they gave you.


No such thing as a free luch, and I can't understand why you are suprissed it went down like it did. What did you expect / If you left it in my parking lot I would have done the same thing.

Sorry, if someone tows my car they have absolutely no legal right whatsoever to immediately sell my car without at first - regardless of where I'm parked. They might be able to charge me a fair bit to get it back, but they sure as hell can't sell the thing (or bits of it).

I think you will find that they can do what they want with the car once they have been contracted to remove it from the Uni. The uni has the legal right to dispose of it as they had notified the owner and as I said it sounds like he consented. Check the law.. you honestly think teh Tow truck company is just going to sit it in their yard forever ? They would have been paid to remove and dispose of teh vehicle in a legal manner. Selling for scrap / parts is a legal manner and they have done nothing wrong.

As for the damage, in QLD the owner of the vehicle which casues the damage is liable for it as long as no illegal act was committed by a third party which resulted in the damage. The tow truck was doing what he was employed to do, the uni was doing what they have a legal right to do and the owner of the vehicle was in the wrong by leaving his wreck in the car park.

If you look into the uni rules I think you will find that un road worthy / un registered vehicles are not allowed on campus. Therefore the car was illegally parked in the first place which is an entirely new kettel of fish.

Haveing just gotten ride of several cars from our car park in the exact same way. We had them towed and sold to a wrecker I can assure you it is all above board and totally legal. We even donated one of them to the SES to cut up and rescue people from.

It turns out the uni has a contract with the towing company, in that whatever they tow they own (despite what the parking dude told me). Who knows why the towing guy asked me if the uni was going to pay him then! Most people around here still think the towing guy shouldn't have taken the engine (some quite passionately!), but I am starting to think I'm better off cutting my losses and letting it rest.

Remember the notice on the car claimed that a police check had been performed and that it hadn't been reported. There was just no mention that it would no longer be mine after a week. I didn't care about the body too much, so I didn't investigate too much further (apart from trying to track down and talk to who actually posted the notice).

Security at the uni were fine with the whole thing (they all know me pretty well since they helped out when I was righting the vehicle and getting it running again!), but it was these parking people who came out of the blue with the one week notice.

I certainly hope the laws in NSW are different about the damage. I'd hate to be liable for damage caused by someone else because they didn't take care. That's kinda why I offered to help dispose of it - two blokes would have been able to left the front of the car while it was loaded onto a truck. One bloke by himself would have been a lot more difficult. Anyway, since I cleaned up the broken glass and shit last night, I haven't heard any more.

Don't worry David - you came down at the right time

now i live on campus in melbourne, and i have done many repair jobs in the carpark, and if your rent entitles you to car parking, or you have to buy a permit, it should allow you to sit your car there in any condition. i know a mate of mine smashed his kingswood into one of the uni buildings, and although he got kicked off campus, he still parked his totaled car in the carparks, because he was entitled to through his parking permit he bought, when the uni tried to force him to move it, the shit hit the fan. only thing they could get him with was having a residential permit, while not living on residence, but they had to swap that to a regular permit (part of their policy) so we pushed it into a non resident car park on campus, and there it stayed. so i don't see how they can be forceful about getting it removed, and even if they did have it towed (same as if you get towed due to parking in a tow away zone in the city) the car should be impounded and the costs of towing given to the owner of the vehicle, and the vehicle (with corresponding engine) should be returned to the owner. doubt an impounded car that was towed from the CBD would be parted out in the first week.

as for the towing guys, i believe they are responsible for the damage, and as such would be required to fix it. if you hired an electrician and he accidently smashed a window while working, he'd be responsible, so the same applies, the tower people have a responsibility to do a good job of removal.

i say report it, and watch the people squirm, because you were never contacted about the sale of the car or parts, and you are still the legal owner

bad_religion_au wrote:now i live on campus in melbourne, and i have done many repair jobs in the carpark, and if your rent entitles you to car parking, or you have to buy a permit, it should allow you to sit your car there in any condition. i know a mate of mine smashed his kingswood into one of the uni buildings, and although he got kicked off campus, he still parked his totaled car in the carparks, because he was entitled to through his parking permit he bought, when the uni tried to force him to move it, the shit hit the fan. only thing they could get him with was having a residential permit, while not living on residence, but they had to swap that to a regular permit (part of their policy) so we pushed it into a non resident car park on campus, and there it stayed. so i don't see how they can be forceful about getting it removed, and even if they did have it towed (same as if you get towed due to parking in a tow away zone in the city) the car should be impounded and the costs of towing given to the owner of the vehicle, and the vehicle (with corresponding engine) should be returned to the owner. doubt an impounded car that was towed from the CBD would be parted out in the first week.

as for the towing guys, i believe they are responsible for the damage, and as such would be required to fix it. if you hired an electrician and he accidently smashed a window while working, he'd be responsible, so the same applies, the tower people have a responsibility to do a good job of removal.

i say report it, and watch the people squirm, because you were never contacted about the sale of the car or parts, and you are still the legal owner

What he said.

Personally I think I'd let it be. I've had to deal with the powers that be at my uni before and if you are in the wrong according to the rules then you're on shaky ground as you've said. This is the case even when the rules and common sense are completely opposite to each other

Have you considered legal advice, if nothing else you'd know how hard the uni could kick your arse on legal grounds
If you forge ahead with trying to get it back then more power to you mate Good luck

LOL what a classic....
Here's my thoughts:

1. I believe the Uni could legally state that the vehicle was illegally parkd (ie unrego'ed).
2. I believe the uni could legally state that the vehicle was abandoned.
3. I believe the Uni can legally take "ownership" of the property & thus dispose of the vehicle because of the above - especially after written notice.
4. I believe legally the towing company can dispose of the property, becuase it is in the contract between the uni & the towing company.
5. Therefore the wreckers have bought a "legit" wreck.
6. Damaged incurred whilst removing the vehicle and the cost of removing the vehicle, I believe, can be legally charged to the owner of the vehicle (this would normally be covered by insurance co's etc)....

So I guess I'd suggest you either prepare yourself for an uphill poo battle....or sensibly cut your losses and infact be glad you didn't get stung for removeal or repair costs.....

Suxxx... but that's my spin....

was it unreg, or only unroadworthy (look around any uni car park, most cars are unroadworthy). depending on the parking pass issue or not, technically you hired that space, find the small print and see if it includes a disclaimer that if you don't move it/ drive it/ whatever in X amount of time, the uni owns it. sounds suspect to me, as sometimes shitty budgeting has left my fj40 from going anyplace for months, due to no fuel, so is that the same as abandoned?

i honestly think if the damage was done during the removal, the removalists have a responsibility to do a good job. would a trucker transporting new cars to the showroom have his ass kicked for damaging the new BMW on his truck through careless action? you bet your ass.

good luck, and get legal advice if you decide to pursue this, then you know where you stand, and can fire away in the knowlege of potential outcomes

Wooders wrote:LOL what a classic....
Here's my thoughts:

3. I believe the Uni can legally take "ownership" of the property & thus dispose of the vehicle because of the above - especially after written notice.


6. Damaged incurred whilst removing the vehicle and the cost of removing the vehicle, I believe, can be legally charged to the owner of the vehicle (this would normally be covered by insurance co's etc)....

So doesn't that mean the uni's responsible for repair/cost of the damage?
Or did the uni not have the right to transfer ownership to the towing company?

...Just playing devil's advocate!

Hmmm possibly Ben....I got NFI when it comes ta this legal crap...that why personally I'd be happy to walk away if it were me....