Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi guys, I only found this forum about lunch time today and I've been searching it since

I have 91 GQ 4.2D with about 140k on the clock.
I do a lot of towing with this thing and I just cant take the top speed of 70ks up hills any more
This truck will also be the weekend basher so a lift and bigger wheels(33's) are on the cards, but not till the donk is sorted

I would like to know peoples opinions of workshops around the Brisbane area that fit turbo kits to the TD42?

I would also like your opinion on the various kits available.

I have done a fair bit of reading about some of the kits around MTQ/DTS, AXT, Denco, but really they are all pretty much the same. However I would like to stay away from the two piece manifolds.

My goal for now is to have the truck able to tow around 1000kg up most hills at 110ks. Is this unreasonable?

Thanks guys.

Firstly G'day and welcome to the site, I was put onto it awhile ago by a member, It's been a wealth of infomation and most of the members are all to happy to help you out, as they have for me.
With reguards to your td42, towing a 1000kg at 110km/h isn't unreasonable, the kits your talking about are the preffered one's, tried and proven, having said that you may want a custom set-up. If you have the time an patience I would keep searching through hear, also try the OL bible. Good luck

hey how u going...

As the other bloke said not unreasonable to achieve what your wanting with towing.

You can go custom or a kit as the price is much difference for your requirements if you were chasing big power then custom is your only choice saying that you would need to spend more money.

Custom isnt much of a difference in price, and why do you want to stay away from 2 piece manifolds?

Turbo glide have a good semi custom kit where they have a garret roller bearing turbo thats high mounted and has cast manifold and I believe they are quite reasonable priced.

But if you know what your doing, you can always get a slighty better turbo around 2k + lines and stuff then manifold and would end up being around 3k mark...

Thanks for the replies guys.

I'm a little put off by the 2 piece manifolds because I believe if you get some water/mud where the 2 pieces join, you have a good chance it may start rusting and then leaking. Maybe I'm wrong, but is it worth taking the risk if there are single piece manifold available?

I'm glad you guys mentioned custom kits. Most of the kits I have seen are all using a log style manifold which I am also not that happy about.

Are there any kits available that have a nice flowing manifold?

I guess the reason for the log style is that they are less likely to crack.

If I was to go a custom setup, turbo and manifold, who would be the place to speak to about a suitable turbo? And what real world/rear wheel power figures could be achieved safely?

Thanks guys

Hi AussieGQ - I have a two piece manifold on my GQ and have had no problem with it at all. When they are assembled, they are supposed to have some copper silicone (hi temp) used on them which stops mud / water ingress, not to mention these are fairly tight tolerances anyway between the two pieces.

The two pieces are sealed with a pair of piston rings + there is so much other junk in the way (heat shield etc) that it would be fairly out of the way.

I have not seen a kit around with a custom mandrel bent type manifold, that's not to say that one couldn't be made fairly easily.

SAFE horsepower is nearly limitless, it just depends on what other modifications you have the $$ for, everything has it's price.

If you're after big HP, then start with a custom fuel pump, ball bearing turbocharger, big intercooler and hi-flo everything - you would be well into the 5 figures for this sort of conversion I would suggest (e.g Custom manifld, Garrett GT350 T/C, fuel pump, Custom Water-to-air Intercooler, Custom/aftermarket hi-flo filter).

Sensible horsepower gains can be achieved with any of the kits currently available on the market - and they do work very well.

To talk turbos (in a custom sense), I would suggest you will need to first decide what sort of HP you want - then you can determine fuel requirements, airflow requirements, usable revs and ultimately the turbocharger size - the turbo sizing comes last after you've decided the other parameters.

Thanks for your reply mate.

Its nice to know about the 2 piece manifolds.

Trying to figure out how much power one wants is always difficult cause we always want more

My end goal I guess would be to have about 130-140rwkw. I'm not sure if this is safely achievable without spending huge dollars.
First of I would be happy to climb up hills towing the boat with slowing down. Once that novelty has worn off I would like to fit an intercooler, possibly water/air and try and tweak a bit extra gogo out of it.

I'm just worried about buying a DTS or Denco kit and then find out later that they are at their max efficiency at 90-100kw

I have been searching this forum a fair bit and have read about upgrading the fuel pumps to give more gogo up high in the range. I'm not too sure if I have understood that correctly, but if I can do this as well as the intercooler later on I might be close to my goal!?

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks guys

AussieGQ wrote:Thanks for your reply mate.

Its nice to know about the 2 piece manifolds.

Trying to figure out how much power one wants is always difficult cause we always want more

My end goal I guess would be to have about 130-140rwkw. I'm not sure if this is safely achievable without spending huge dollars.
First of I would be happy to climb up hills towing the boat with slowing down. Once that novelty has worn off I would like to fit an intercooler, possibly water/air and try and tweak a bit extra gogo out of it.

I'm just worried about buying a DTS or Denco kit and then find out later that they are at their max efficiency at 90-100kw

I have been searching this forum a fair bit and have read about upgrading the fuel pumps to give more gogo up high in the range. I'm not too sure if I have understood that correctly, but if I can do this as well as the intercooler later on I might be close to my goal!?

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks guys

well with any turbo kit max efficiency with a standard pump is only going to be about 100 - 110 kw figure anyway no matter what the turbo is or intercooler or manifold.. The standard pump doesnt flow enough fuel.

Sounds like for your setup you would be better just getting a standard kit maybe one with a roller bearing which willl boost earlier and be more appropiate for towing.

To achieve 130kw at the rear wheels your not going to get much if at all change from $5000, as when u do the pump, you will have to get an aneroid, injectors, then you may as well fit a decent intercooler, proper extractor manifold and suitable turbo + larger airbox + larger snorkle ... so you cant really do it half way if that makes sense...

Certainly does make sense.

When I do fit and intercooler I'll be getting a decent setup, not just a $500 installed she'll be right job. I would like to visit ARE and get Richard to sort something out for me.

I also understand that once I start chasing 110kw+ the fuel system will need looking at. But that's fine, you cant get more power without supplying more fuel.

Breathing upgrades are also on the cards anyway. I have been putting off getting a snorkel until the turbo is fitted and we make a new airbox.

I would just like to know one way or the other is an off the shelf kit will come close to my expectations once the cooler is fitted, fuel system is upgraded/modified and the breathing is sorted.

Thanks for your time guys. Much appreciated.
Hopefully this thread will help other people in the future.

140rwkw is getting up there - but there would be a couple of ways of attacking it:

As you are wanting to use it for towing, I would suggest that the fast-spool turbos are probably not what you are after, they do not offer more power, they just offer it it a bit faster.

The AXT (and probably Denco etc kits)

I chose the AXT kit because they are one of the few which:
a) uses a water cooled Garrett rebuildable core
b) actually connects up the water cooling lines to said cooling jacket
c) comes with heat shield, braided lines throughout etc.
d) are very reasonably priced

These turbos are good for 20psi+ (according to AXT), which means by adding fuel to said 20psi = power!

Unfortunately to counteract the higher boost pressure (and hence the higher compressor outlet temperature) this means intercooling, EGT's need to be dealt with also.

There are a couple of other ways around it - which are a little bit off beat, but have their place:
- Chemical Intercooling (Water/Methanol Fogging)
- LPG Fogging

Either of the above can easily and safely give you the power you are after (combined with turbocharging) - although each has it's drawbacks.

Water/Meth injection requires a minimum boost pressure of 15psi to eliminate combustion quenching, and if you get drainback (check valve failure) into the intake manifold then it's bye-bye TD42 - the other thing is getting a supply of methanol - not hard to do, but a lot harder than just filling up at the pump.

LPG fogging is safer from a hydraulic lockup point of view - but injection mixtures MUST be controlled to prevent piston meltdown / cracking (from knocking).

I'm just going through the process of designing a closed-loop EGT monitoring LPG fogging system for mine ... will be good when I eventually get it to work! Dieselgas (who can do the conversion for $4k) reckon around the 150kW at the wheels with 1300+ ft-lb of torque.

There is a place called Team Green Autogas at Darra which do the similar thing - although from what I've seen maximum benefits come from turbocharging first, as the LPG (or water/meth) displaces some of the oxygen needed to burn the diesel, so rather than adding power, it maintains power by "replacing" some of the diesel fuel with LPG.

Cheers

Thanks for your reply mate.

I rang about 25 places on Friday asking about what kits they fit and not one dealt with the AXT kits :(

I found places that deal with the DTS, Denco and the Safari kits although I was told by a few places that Safari warranty backup is very poor.

With that information I was leaning toward the Denco and probably more so the DTS kit. It appears that more workshops are dealing with the DTS kits which in my opinion is always a good thing.

What you said about the AXT turbo capable of 20+ psi is very promising. I have done a fair bit of searching on the Denco and DTS kits and from what I have read, DTS or now MTQ can supply their Turbo in 3 different specs. I'm not sure how true this is, but I'll give them a call later today and find out.

Thanks

Actually what you say about the LPG fogging is very interesting.
I have been toying with the idea of LPG since the new rebates come in.

Who are your getting to do your LPG setup?

if you want that sorta power there is aguy on the coast called dwayne dean. he drives a bright red tt lexus v8 gq ute in the mud persuits.
no idea on contact details tho

he did my mates gq and its got about 200rwhp. its a denco kit with a bigger high flow turbo. and a custom injector pump.
i think it was around 8k drive in drive out with 3 inch zaust and big front mount.

this thing hauls and pulls 22psi, turbo isnt anywhere near max capabilities either

Okay everybody keeps mentioning pump mods ... what exactly is modded in the pump ? Plunger? Cam disk and ?

Untill recently I've been running a Safari kit with a few minor mods. When compared to a mates AXT there was no comparison. While they were both running 20psi the Safari kit far out performed the AXT and that particular truck had been dynoed with 135 RWKW.
As for pump mods, most are using 1HDT Landcruiser plunger etc and fitting them into the Patrol pump. If you get the right pump it will increase planger from 10mm to 12mm. With this done and a good big turbo you'll be looking at 300 ish RWHP! One guy I'm racing in NZ has this and he'll build the pump for you if you want. Last time I talked to them it was about $1500NZ.

Hi guys, I did some more researching today on some turbo kits.

The turbo used in the Denco kit is not water cooled.

The turbo used in the DTS kit is water cooled and also has the option of being high flowed.

hi, i'm at the same stage as you, ie. looking for a suitable setup for my maverick. Have you looked at Mike Vine's set up he sells? He is located at capalaba, brisbane. From what i have heard he runs a Garrot TO3 water cooled system and claims you'll get about 130 kw running 10 psi with no intercooler. He has been around for years and really knows his stuff. That kit he runs is around $4500 drive in drive out. But you could always talk to him about a custom setup. Good luck in finding what your after, could you let me know what you end up going with, i would be very interested, cheers.

I did speak to someone at Mike Vine the other day but they didn't really seem interested in answering any of my questions.
If people don't want my money, that's fine by me.

AussieGQ wrote:Hi guys, I did some more researching today on some turbo kits.

The turbo used in the Denco kit is not water cooled.

The turbo used in the DTS kit is water cooled and also has the option of being high flowed.

I just fitted a denco kit about 3 months ago, it is water cooled, cost me $2800 + GST delivered and it really hauls arse! I tow my tandem car trailer regularly which weighs 800kg and it pulls up hills no dramas at all. I am running 8 psi boost and have just adjusted the injector pump screw for a bit more fuel, running 550 degrees egt flat out up a hill. I highly recommend the denco kit. I fitted it myself in an afternoon, then took it to the exhaust shop and they fitted a 2 1/2 inch exhaust with a single flow muffler, that cost me $450.

Damm, I rang Denco and they said its not water cooled.
So either the newer kits are not water cooled, or they are not really interested in selling their kits?

denco dont do a watercooled kit :s
schwitzer dont make watercooled turbos according to the local denco dealer

and denco only use schwitzer

Yeah, thats what I was told

AussieGQ wrote:I did speak to someone at Mike Vine the other day but they didn't really seem interested in answering any of my questions.
If people don't want my money, that's fine by me.

I had a Mike Vine kit installed in "97" Still going srtong.
Were you talking to Mike himself? as over the years I've had to call to ask some questions and he was allways more than helpfull with any questions!Even called him once from Mt Isa a couple of years ago while on a trip!
A unkown "hissing noise". Turned out I found a cracked hose to the boost controller and It was activating the overboost valve they install with their kit!
Try again to talk to Mike!

hey mate i do a bit of weekend work for mates with things like turboing as iam a diesel fitter and no what im doing give me a call if you like cheers 0428877707

where are you rollin?

Denco also have Garret but use towards Schwitzer for their Oil burner kits.

The best thing about Denco is drive in drive out. They do everything in house pump mods, injectors, exhaust and dyno tune. Scott and the boy know there shit and don't up-sell you on shit that not worth the money.

I just wrote another reply to another post about turbos

Give Nigel at Ice Performance in Melbourne a call.
He has a GQ running over 200kw at the wheels.
They mainly do very high powered jap imports but he definitely knows his stuff in relation to turbos etc and is a 4x4 enthusiast as well.

http://iceperformance.com.au/

Hope he can point you in the right direction...

im on the north side of brisbane

i may contact you an a lil while when i go to upgrade my turbo if your keen for a lil cash work

I have a DTS (Dynamic Turbo Systems) on my 4.2 and a Safari snorkel

DTS are now called MTQ.

They are actually a Mitsubishi light truck turbo remodelled from new to suit the 4.2D

It's watercooled but intercoolers are available to suit them at a modorate price and add about 15kw and a cooler turbo.

My 4.2 has 312000 on the clock and it still pulls like a mallee bull.

sudso

Yeh hi i have been using Mike Vine for 6yrs now i never get him to do the work on my truck as he is very dear but very very good, he helps me with all the advise i ever needed i talk to him at least once a week in regards to other cars i do at work, He always supplies my turbo stuff i need, As for which turbo to run to keep the cost down i would head towards a t3 (Vl Commodore) Turbo get it hiflowed and buy a manifold 1 piece or 2 both do the same job if u use 2 piece make shaw u put new rings in the split piece, get enzed to make up lines and bobs your uncle.
I am doing the exact turbo kit for a mate truck this weekend, have done this kit more than 5 times works really well spools nice and low and make good power mid range and very simple cheap also, if you want to see the kit finished contact me and by allmeans come and have a look i am in Cleveland and can evan look at doing the job for you

Cheers Hrass