Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I bought a GQ LWB wagon today with a 6" Tough Dog spring lift and adjustable Rancho's.
It doesn't flex that much at the front, just wondering what link set ups or anything else that will really get the 35's tucking up.
It doesn't have an adjustable panhard or adjustable draglink at the front either although the panhard is aftermarket.
The link set up at the front is pretty much factory so I think it's moved the diffs in a bit with the lift. The springs tend to "bow" in as well.

cheers, sudso

If its got caster plates or the axle has been cut and rolled to fix it. Best bet would be return to std and fit either drop boxs or modded arms. These will take the load of all the bushes and allow them to flex. Also a softer front spring maybe.

Does Dobbins do a x-link setup for the front of the patrol's??

Layto....

The radius arms have been "repositioned" on the axle tube so the diff angle suits the lift and it does have aftermarket adjustable panhards front and rear.
Standard draglink.
Not sure what castor bushes were used but where the radius arms bolt to the lower brackets on the front axle they only have one bolt, not 2 like standard.
I should chase up the mob who originally did the lift I suppose and find out exactly what they did.

Just wondering what is restricting the flex up front. It has no front sway bar either.

cheers

sudso wrote:The radius arms have been "repositioned" on the axle tube so the diff angle suits the lift and it does have aftermarket adjustable panhards front and rear.
Standard draglink.
Not sure what castor bushes were used but where the radius arms bolt to the lower brackets on the front axle they only have one bolt, not 2 like standard.
I should chase up the mob who originally did the lift I suppose and find out exactly what they did.

Just wondering what is restricting the flex up front. It has no front sway bar either.

cheers

what is restricting downward flex is your radius arm bushes ( arm to chassis).
as for tucking up, even if the front spring is sitting at a radius, it should still compress, but you more than likely got a very stiff spring rate.

if you dont have much downward flex, your upward flex is restricted on the opposite side aswell. ( it will wanto to twist the body)

Jes

Drop boxes or drop arms are the best.
Drop boxes $375 pr
Drop arms $675 pr

Not sure what castor bushes were used but where the radius arms bolt to the lower brackets on the front axle they only have one bolt, not 2 like standard.

OK This is wierd, there should be one bolt in front of the axel and one bolt behind the axel. Maybe you can talk a bit more about this like is it welded on one of them or something?
I will ignore this for the below.

Bowed coils cause them to sag prematurely as only one side of the coil has to carry the weight.

Have you got adjustable trailing arms for the rear. Your coils should sit vertical and not bowing. If they are bowing when not flexed it up, it is a good indication that it isn't setup right.

Have a look and see if your tyres are the same distance from the guard left to right.(If not adjust your panhard rods)

For the rear, if your coils are bowing front to back then check out your tail shaft to uni joint angles. They should be the same and check that at the rear to see if it is sitting level (Adjustable trailing arms).

For the front your coils should sitting vertical. My best advice here is to take it to a shop and see how far the castor is out.(As JohnZ said new arms or drop boxes or maybe castor plates)

Q. You don't have a double cardin joint in it do you? This could change some things.

All this doesn't solve your flex problem though. Nothing makes a great deal of difference unless you get a 5 link or use the X-link.

To see what I am talking about you could drive to somewhere where you can flex it up and pull out one of your castor bolts (that's if you do have two) and gently flex it up. Then you will know if your coils are too stiff and if it doesn't flex now it never will. (I don't take respnsability if you break anything). Make sure you reverse it up otherwise you won't get the full travel.

Shane

Here's some pic's.
I could have driven a couple of inches higher before the rear wheel lifted but I had to get out and take the photo.
The shocks seem a little short on extension for 6" lifted springs.
You can see what was done to the radius arms too

Doesn't have adjustable trailing arms.

No double cardin joints

They are Tough dog coils, notoriously stiff?

Has a fair bit of rake too. The previous owner put a steel bar and winch on after the lift.

Factory sway bar disconnect with extended links but only about 3" and the lift is 6"

Tyres are 35"

Will check out the bow and measurements when it's daylight.

Cheers, thanks for everything so far guys. I just want to get the best out of it without going to a 5 or an x-link. They sound exy.

sudso

ur front flex looks preety typical for a patrol but the rear seems like its not flexing us much as it should..u may need longer shocks. unless u wanna spend up on ur front u kinda have to live with it. flex aint the be all end all..a locker in the front will be cool to work with the super gq rear flex and tight lsd...

that looks very ordinary, id say the shocks are definately not long enough, or there is some other limiting factor, heres a pic of my GQ, its running 4 inch dobinson coils,standard radius arms, superior drop boxes and haultech slotted bushes, 35 inch tyres and no swaybars

OK This is wierd, there should be one bolt in front of the axel and one bolt behind the axel. Maybe you can talk a bit more about this like is it welded on one of them or something?

from his pics it looks like they have just welded the castor plates on instead of drilling and bolting, im assuming that the bolt at the rear mount is there, cant see in the pic though, i reckon it needs drop boxes or arms and possibly longer shocks, have you tried flexing it up with the shocks removed?

i still say take off that rear sway bar ifit hasnt been extended 6 inches it will work against you.
also castor plates, altho they do fix castor do not do anything for front end flex as with a 6 inch lift the bushes are almost at full compression when the car site normally. best bet is drop arms or drop boxes.
alot of people say you hit drop boxes etc. but i havent found mine to be limiting as yet. and i think the better handleing and flex acheived by them far outweighs the box sitting below the chassis

as i said in the reply to your pm first up get rid of that sway bar (atleast for now till youknow whats limiting flex) see what happens, and then try without shocks, also dont forget the check the clearance of your tail shafts and lenghts of all lines before you flex it as they may have never been modded if it has this little flex.

Yes Madmac the arms are bolted at the rear, just welded at the front (dodgy?)

I'll measure the travel without shocks but 1st. I have to cut and shut the hump on the g/box crossmember as there is only an 8mm gap between the front driveshaft and xmember with the truck at rest!!!

I'll also have to look at the sway bar disconnect because as badger said it's probably restricting rear flex and/or short rear shocks
The link from the disconnect is out about 4" already with the disconnect off. The length of the extended link on the passenger side is 8.5".

The front Rancho's are RS99014's and the rears are RS99005's.
I'll have to look the spec's up on a site somewhere.

I'll probably have to extend the front shock mounts and get longer shocks because I think they run out of up travel at the moment.
Then look at getting the right length bump stops and drop arms or drop boxes etc.

Thanks again guys, it looks like I am getting closer to sorting it out.
It looks like the whole set up is just wrong. I think the previous owner just wanted ground clearance alone.

I'll put a couple more pic's up later, maybe start a thread called: "What not to do when lifting a GQ lol!

BTW Wicked flex too Madmac!

Viper said:

ur front flex looks preety typical for a patrol but the rear seems like its not flexing us much as it should..u may need longer shocks. unless u wanna spend up on ur front u kinda have to live with it. flex aint the be all end all..a locker in the front will be cool to work with the super gq rear flex and tight lsd...

Viper the reason I want more flex out of the front and rear is because when the flex reaches it limits it sometimes tends to want to tip things over.

Cheers, sudso

4WDStuff wrote:

For the front your coils should sitting vertical. My best advice here is to take it to a shop and see how far the castor is out.(As JohnZ said new arms or drop boxes or maybe castor plates)

Q. You don't have a double cardin joint in it do you? This could change some things.

No it doesn't

The front coils bow rearwards slightly, only about 2mm deflection over the total length of the spring.

The rear springs bow rearwards too, only more. About 6-7mm.
I probably need some adjustable trailing arms right? Upper and lower or just lower ones?

I took some pic's and the radius arms are at a crook old angle and already compressing the bushes at the chassis end so correct drop arms should fix that.
The castor plates are welded at the front and bolted at the rear although I will drill and bolt the front side as well.

Pic's:


This is with the rear stabiliser "on" (sway bar "connected")


Other side showing link extension


This one speaks for itself lol!

Looks like it's had a bit of a hard life.
Not to wory though, it's a Nissan!

The sway bar links should be close to horizontal to the ground. The way it is at the moment, it will be limiting your wheel travel.

5 link front

Those rancho shocks a way too short fro a 6' lift.
Those shocks are for a 4" lift
You need Drop boxes or drop arms & a lot longer shocks
Get rid of the castor plates.
That patrol has no travel at all.
cheers mate

Sudso you only need either upper or lower trailing arms to correct those bowed coils in the rear but not both. I recommend you get lower arms.
Including freight for 2 adjustable lower arms with genuine Nissan bushes it will cost you $390. Without bushes $260.

For the sway bar link pins, because you have a factory disconnect you can either cut and lengthen what you have or get rid of your disconnect and get some longer sway bar link pins to suit your lift.($100) Even though it disconnects it doesn't dissconect far enough. However you would have to get another bracket off a wreck as the disconnect mounting is different on that side.

You will have to do something otherwise you run the risk of cracking or damaging something off road. New disconnects will cost you $190 but you will still need that bracket from the wreckers.

On the shocks front. You will have to pull your shocks off and ramp it up to see what length you really need. For the front measure to where the base of the pin to base of pin would be. Don't get longer shocks till you fix the sway bar issue.

Now if by chance you get your castor checked and the castor is right you can get some wedges to go in where your castor arms connect to the chassis so that bush isn't always twisted. They are $35 each. This will also help get a bit more downward travel in the front but if you want flex a 5 link or X link would make you happy but $$$.

Something else I should mention. You should raise your bump stops or you will bottom out your shocks and stuff them. Check this out when you are ramping it before and after you get shocks. I would get Procomps too.($125e including boots and freight)

After you fix all that you need big muddies and lockers

Shane

I was thinking of doing things in this order:

Before I ramp it up without shocks I need to cut and shut the hump on the g/box xmember below the front driveshaft as there is only an 8-10mm gap there at the moment.

Get either correct drop boxes or drop arms, adjustable rear trailing arms or extend and laminate the ones I've got to correct the rear spring bow. One thing though, when the rear wheels flex up into the guards they arc futher towards the rear, yes/no?
Get castor checked.

Remove rear sway bar and shocks for the ramp up test/clearances/measurements etc.

I'm thinking of raising the front shock towers and get longer shocks to allow more up travel if everything else has enough clearance because I think the front shocks ran out of up travel in the 1st. pic.
A mate recommended 80 series bump stops (progressive and stronger?) too and install them so they start compressing while there is still a couple of inches or more of shock travel left.
The brake lines are already extended.

If I've got anything out of order please let me know

cheers, sudso

yeah you right mate as the wheel tucks it does move backwards.
thats why a quater chop and a lil trimming allows you alot more flex when you run 35's.

chops wrote:5 link front

I know, I know! It's just the $$$ at the moment

Has anyone got pic's or links to pic's with a 5 link installed?

Or the X Link, I think they are cheaper?

cheers

badger wrote:yeah you right mate as the wheel tucks it does move backwards.
thats why a quater chop and a lil trimming allows you alot more flex when you run 35's.

I'm going to cut and shut the all the guards anyway Dont know about a whole quarter chop yet.

cheers

lay80n wrote:Does Dobbins do a x-link setup for the front of the patrol's??

Layto....

yep sure do.

Chad
0418441064

I'm pretty sure Toughdog use King springs. If they do they will be a lot stiffer than the Dobinson springs in Madmacs. I've just taken out 7" King springs and put in 4" Dobinsons and they are HEAPS softer.

My 2 cents is to go the Xlink rather than the drop arms if you want flex.

You can get the Dobbinson Springs in all different rates, yours must have been too soft.

King Springs (when i bought mine) only did their 3"+ springs @ 250lbs. Not Rated for loads, just 'articulation'.

your sway bar setup is whats holding your rear end up...... even extending the links, they stiull don't work real well..... i removed mine altogether because my patrol is only a weekend warrior now, it doesn't get driven daily.



Thats 6" springs without sway bar...... my shocks are very long though, and i had to retain the spring so it doesn't fall out. And i had more left on that..... I haven't managed to lift a wheel yet. My front flex isn't overly crash hot even with the 3rds arms, but mind you it hasn't been off-road much to soften them up..... they are also fairly heavy dobinsons springs..... i'm going to source new ones soon.

GUJohnno wrote:You can get the Dobbinson Springs in all different rates, yours must have been too soft.

King Springs (when i bought mine) only did their 3"+ springs @ 250lbs. Not Rated for loads, just 'articulation'.

Who said anything about being too soft. They're great, it's even better offroad now. My 7" KIng springs were the softest rated they did as well but were just a lot stiffer than the 4" Dobinsons.

I agree with Patrolden though about taking the sway bar off. I drive mine everyday to work without any swaybars. They go back on for engineer and roadworthy checks or if I want to drive it very long distances but they get in the way when you go 4wding no matter how you have them extended or disconnected.