Outer Limits 4x4 Board

im thinking of doing a spring over conversion for my daily driver zuuk. is that illeggal in qld. i tried the seach button..

thanks Reece

yes. but do it anyway

its only illegal if you get caught and can't talk your way out of it

advice taken. is it a hard modification... ive done a lot to cars and stuff before pretty mechanical sorta person

buy these from the states it will make it heaps easier

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/6-SPOA-l ... 5446QQrdZ1

That's an absolutey brilliant design

Hmmm, I wonder if it's patented?

I agree with Troll01, go the rockroad system, that looks like an all out winner. You could even use a stick welder to get those pads on, maybe with a couple of light tack welds along the edges of the upper pad to keep it from rotating. The bulk of the load would go straight to the stock perches though (maybe some distorsion of the perches though).

While we're on the topic, does anyone know $$wise the cost of a highsteer kit?

Ado

hey thanks for that might by a set or make some good design though

to make the spring pirch's i used 50 by 50, 3 mill thick rhs, if you use less than 3 mill you'll crush em in no time. brake lines cost about 60-70 bucks depending where you go. i made a z link using the standard drag link and a pipe bender. you may need tailshaft spacers- Captain Carnage made my tailshafts for me, so i'm unsure what spacers are worth( 90-100 bucks?)
you could get away with it for about 200 hundred if you dont mind havin a go. alternatively snake racing do a full conversion with hi steer- i know there are others out there that do them, but as i have no money (married, kids) i didnt go too far into buying a kit. hope that helps.

do you have a pic of the z link? i want to do the same to my zook.

thanks

one thing with a z link is the bump steer as the steering geometry will be stretched especially if you go with the 6" spring perches . the average lift using std spring perches is 4-4.5 inches.you will be happier with a histeer kit they start at around the $700 mark, in nsw an engineer will not pass a zlink at all ..

noelb1 wrote:one thing with a z link is the bump steer as the steering geometry will be stretched especially if you go with the 6" spring perches . the average lift using std spring perches is 4-4.5 inches.you will be happier with a histeer kit they start at around the $700 mark, in nsw an engineer will not pass a zlink at all ..

Will an engineer pass a Z-link anywhere?

sierrajim wrote:

noelb1 wrote:one thing with a z link is the bump steer as the steering geometry will be stretched especially if you go with the 6" spring perches . the average lift using std spring perches is 4-4.5 inches.you will be happier with a histeer kit they start at around the $700 mark, in nsw an engineer will not pass a zlink at all ..

Will an engineer pass a Z-link anywhere?

true I don't think anyone will pass it, you are weakening it when you bend it to start with and if you brace it thats alot of heat to put into a steering component , would you trust it .

sierrajim wrote:

noelb1 wrote:one thing with a z link is the bump steer as the steering geometry will be stretched especially if you go with the 6" spring perches . the average lift using std spring perches is 4-4.5 inches.you will be happier with a histeer kit they start at around the $700 mark, in nsw an engineer will not pass a zlink at all ..

Will an engineer pass a Z-link anywhere?

I think droopypete had a z link engineered.

How Long ago?

Has anyone actually tried to graft the components from a mercedes like that guy who did it in the bible link? Seems like a good idea though. He used a drop pitman arm also. Does a hi steer kit still utilise a drip pitman arm or is it no necessary?

Ado

Its not necessary to use a drop pitman for the merc arm set up it just makes the drag link sit parallel. Im going to use this high steer method when i do my spring over. much better steering (no bump steer)

ok so the z link is out i read the bible but i cant picture how the merc arm works anyone got any pictures?

It bolts onto your break caliper

noelb1 wrote:How Long ago?

not a recent thing.

The author of the thread fab'd up a custom draglink. How would one get around connecting the drag link to the mercedes arm? Maybe buying a draglink from the wreckers and somehow cut/connect two draglinks together (say an outer sleeve and a few bolts in each)? It seems this guy has chopped some sort of tie rod and just put the ball joint back on the end, but it doesn't seem like this can be done with a standard zook tierod without welding. Is welding totally out of the question?

Troll01

You get longer bolts to replace those that mount the calipers to the hub. You then mount the mercedes arms on the opposite side of the hub (that's why you have three bolt holes in the arm). There's a pic where you can see the two shiny new bolts sitting behind the caliper - these hold down the arm.

Look hard and you can make it out.

Ado

Mercedes arms, you can run either cross over steering with just a custom drag link to the single arm bolted the the LHS (i have this) or full high steer, which is using both mercedes steering arms, and a custom draglink and tie rod. THe drag link bolts to the mercedes arm via the bolt hole in the end, just like any other steering arm . The appeal of the mercedes arms is they fit, and the tapper on the hole to accept the ball joint on the end of the drag link is nearly the same as a zook tapper, making it a more bolt on fit. Dont weld two rods togther, do it properly and make a new drag link, its not hard and you can make it adjustable too . With the mercedes arms you have to make a minor oval out of one of the mounting holes, de to it not quite lining up.

Dont go a z-link, i have had both, and the only proper way to fix the steering is to go x-over or high steer.

Layto....

Lay80n,

How did you make the custom drag link? I was also thinking somehow connecting a thread to the end of the stock drag link and just using a tierod end (the bit that screws in and out) to connect to the merc steering arm? I guess a bit of bar with a thread on it could be welded into the end of the draglink?

Crap, this Spoa is looking better by the minute!

I think I will get my hands on a pair or merc steering arms next week just in case. Which model from that list did you use Lay80n?

Ado

ive gone back and looked thruogh all the steering pages in the suzuki bible and no pics are working for me

Did you have a look at the "suspension" section?

Here's the link were referring to:

http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread.php?t=174

I imagine this will work.

7th pic from the bottom. You can see the merc steering arm bolted up to the hub (i.e. 2 new hex head bolts visible under the brake caliper [the thing with the brake line connected to it ]) These 2 hex bolts go through the 2 bolt holes of the merc steering arm and hold it to the hub. The actual balljoint mount sticks out to the left of the pic, and that's what you connect your draglink to (instead of it being mounted low down on the tie arm). Clear as mud

Ado

yeah thats better thanks ado ill look into it this weekend

I looked at the merc arms, but ended up using a custom arm for it ( same mounting style, but not a merc arm). Draglink can just be a length of bar (i forgot what mine is) that is drilled and tapped at each end to match a zook rod end. Lock nuts are placed on each end just like a tie rod, so it is length adjustable to a degree. DONT WELD BARS TOGETHER TO MAKE A DRAGLINK ETC. I SAID THIS BEFORE!!! Make it properly.


As an aside, have you allowed for other things with a SPOA, like drive line angle changes, shock mount or length changes, track bar???


Layto....

The driveline angle is probably the reason you would want to get the standard type perches. I imagine that changing the angle on the rear diff would be as simple as offsetting the perches forward a couple degrees (i.e. rotating the axle back)? If you made your own perches (same style as the rocky road), all you would need to do is make one "arm" (or the plate that bears on the stock perch) longer than the other to rotate the diff in the right direction. Not sure if the rockyroad ones do that though?

Track bar?

Ado

ado250 wrote:The driveline angle is probably the reason you would want to get the standard type perches. I imagine that changing the angle on the rear diff would be as simple as offsetting the perches forward a couple degrees (i.e. rotating the axle back)? If you made your own perches (same style as the rocky road), all you would need to do is make one "arm" (or the plate that bears on the stock perch) longer than the other to rotate the diff in the right direction. Not sure if the rockyroad ones do that though?

Track bar?

Ado

If you are going to do a SPOA yourself, and are struggling with this, i suggest you look much further into it. (not digging at you, please dont take offense). To change rear pinion angle is easy, just weld perches round a bit further. But to correct front, and keep caster, you need to position perches for pinion height you want, then cut of knuckels and rotate them to correct the change in caster. A track bar is a link that stops axle wrap ( or tries to ). While not nessasary technically, IMHO its almost essential. THis then brings more design into it, getting a track bar that works, and doesnt generate heaps of anti-squat and make the rear end hop under power.

Layto....

No offence taken.

ooooh yeah, panhard rod ( ) seems pretty essential when you're sitting so high over the axles The car goes without it though, but it's necc. all the same, unless you're building a ricer for looks and never actually laterally loading your rig offroad.

Cutting knuckles off sounds painful and hard. Is this common procedure or is it to get things "100% right"?

Ado

Try this:

http://www.puresuzuki.com/suzukimain.htm

Does anyone know if they ship to Aus?

Ado