Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I have checked the bible and struggled to find an answer for the following questions. I want to widen my hi-mount drum and make it a smaller diameter. From what I can see the diameter that most guys use is about 50mm and the width seems to be 1.5x the original. Is this correct? And then how much rope can you put on this? Not the theoretical amount, but the actuall tried and tested amount. I want to put 12mm Vectran on.

From what I have found

12" wide with 2"dia drum and a fancy bit on the end!
Drum mods. Smaller dia drum means higher pulling power (about 20%) but with a reduction in speed (which the 8274 can afford). Coupled with the increase in width means I can use 150’ of 11mm Dyneema and still have plenty of room to bunch the rope during side pulls.



This one is cool

i dont understand how the extra brake is applied when the winch is stopped, can someone tell me how i think i can see a hydraulic hose to the brake caliper, is it manually applied

GQ4.8coilcab wrote:i dont understand how the extra brake is applied when the winch is stopped, can someone tell me how i think i can see a hydraulic hose to the brake caliper, is it manually applied

Yes do tell, i'm interested as well

It would act like a normal hydro brake. Wouldnt it?

Would you have it connected so that when you hit the brakes, that brake gets put on as well, but have a switch that blocks the hose off when the winch isnt being used?

Not sure how it's done but looks pretty funky....

... as does this water cooled winch

midnight wrote:It would act like a normal hydro brake. Wouldnt it?

Would you have it connected so that when you hit the brakes, that brake gets put on as well, but have a switch that blocks the hose off when the winch isnt being used?

Could also just be applied with a level like a handbrake... as apposed to connected to the vehicles braking system...


Hrm.. water cooled winch.... not bad not bad.

In 4wd monthly a while ago they had a few snippets on a liquid nitrogen cooled highmount that trickly it at ~ 4psi into the casing... apparently it was cool to touch after a long winching session... bit spondoolys however.

midnight wrote:It would act like a normal hydro brake. Wouldnt it?

Would you have it connected so that when you hit the brakes, that brake gets put on as well, but have a switch that blocks the hose off when the winch isnt being used?

i was thinking that too, but wasnt sure. Yer that water coolings pretty cool.

I have this small device here at work that takes normal compressed air and seperates it into -40 C air and 110 C air.

We use the cold air to cool welding fixtures where we cant get water to that area.

This thing wouldnt only keep your winch motor cool it could freeze it if you wanted.

They disc brake I would assume would be set up as an automatic thing. When the button is pushed for in or out. The brake would release. Then as soon as power is removed from the motor the brake would lock the drum.
As everyone that has used a preped himount will know that once there is proper bearings etc in there. The run on can be another couple of meters.
Which can be a pain. Especially if the reseason for stopping is cos the cable is around your feet.

+dj_hansen+ wrote: In 4wd monthly a while ago they had a few snippets on a liquid nitrogen cooled highmount that trickly it at ~ 4psi into the casing... apparently it was cool to touch after a long winching session... bit spondoolys however.

Apologies for slight hijack...
Yeah we were talking about the other day and the only thing that occured to me was that heat would turn liquid nitrogen into.......moisture....is that right? or am I on the wrong track?

the brake on the pictured winch i operated by a brake pedal in te cab
the vehicle is an auto leaving space for he third pedal, a hand lever could do the job too.

The winch belongs to Paul wightman the twin motor setup was designed and built by Jim Marsden of gigglepin see
www.gigglepin4x4.net

IIRc the 2 Xp motors are running at 24volts and use water cooling
the temp sensorsw can be seen on the winch motors.
there is another version with a totally new top housing in the pipeline.

Ps
there are loads more pics and 8274 details in the www.lr4x4.com tech archive.

(white90)

beretta wrote:

+dj_hansen+ wrote: In 4wd monthly a while ago they had a few snippets on a liquid nitrogen cooled highmount that trickly it at ~ 4psi into the casing... apparently it was cool to touch after a long winching session... bit spondoolys however.

Apologies for slight hijack...
Yeah we were talking about the other day and the only thing that occured to me was that heat would turn liquid nitrogen into.......moisture....is that right? or am I on the wrong track?

id say it would turn it into nitrogen gas actually.

AdrianGQ wrote:They disc brake I would assume would be set up as an automatic thing. When the button is pushed for in or out. The brake would release. Then as soon as power is removed from the motor the brake would lock the drum.
As everyone that has used a preped himount will know that once there is proper bearings etc in there. The run on can be another couple of meters.
Which can be a pain. Especially if the reseason for stopping is cos the cable is around your feet.

Could develope a better motor controller that brake's the motor(grounds both terminals) instead of letting it free spool.

YankeeDave wrote:I have this small device here at work that takes normal compressed air and seperates it into -40 C air and 110 C air.

We use the cold air to cool welding fixtures where we cant get water to that area.

This thing wouldnt only keep your winch motor cool it could freeze it if you wanted.

This probably just uses a refrigeration process and would probably require alot of air.

no, it actually seperates air with a vortex, and the amount of air you supply dictates final temp, you can supply bugger all air and it gets very cold, or lots of air for just cool air.

very impressive actually.

YankeeDave wrote:no, it actually seperates air with a vortex, and the amount of air you supply dictates final temp, you can supply bugger all air and it gets very cold, or lots of air for just cool air.

very impressive actually.

i dont understand the whole seperate idea. Its not like there are two distinct temperature airs coming out of the compressor. It is air, all at one temp (effectively). To produce cold air you need to remove heat. How does a vortex do this?

heres the info on it

http://www.meech.com/DynaPageProduct.aspx?id=368

Thats pretty cool (yeh i know, shit pun), mind if i ask what the damage is for the vortex valve?

To produce cold air you need to remove heat. How does a vortex do this?

If you have warm air under pressure and then the pressure drops quickly the temperature will drop as well. So its a pressure drop that causes the temp drop.

Next time your having a bbq take off the line for the gas and turn it on, feel how cold the gas is coming out but the bottle is still as warm as the ambient air. Mind you with propane its magnified by the change of state (liquid to gas) as well but the principal is still the same.

not cheap,

work paid $800

YankeeDave wrote:not cheap,

work paid $800

Owch, i was thinking about cooling my esky down with one and some compressed air.

Guess its cheaper to buy ice for 5 more years.

Gribble wrote:

To produce cold air you need to remove heat. How does a vortex do this?

If you have warm air under pressure and then the pressure drops quickly the temperature will drop as well. So its a pressure drop that causes the temp drop.

Next time your having a bbq take off the line for the gas and turn it on, feel how cold the gas is coming out but the bottle is still as warm as the ambient air. Mind you with propane its magnified by the change of state (liquid to gas) as well but the principal is still the same.

yes i fully understand this, but put your finger near the tip of a air gun, its cool air, not cold, nowhere near -40c.

to go to -40C you would need a pressure drop of about 500PSI.

He said it produced air at -40C and air at 110c, to me this sounds like a refrigeration process even if it is a very rudementary system.

Shadow wrote:

Gribble wrote:

To produce cold air you need to remove heat. How does a vortex do this?

If you have warm air under pressure and then the pressure drops quickly the temperature will drop as well. So its a pressure drop that causes the temp drop.

Next time your having a bbq take off the line for the gas and turn it on, feel how cold the gas is coming out but the bottle is still as warm as the ambient air. Mind you with propane its magnified by the change of state (liquid to gas) as well but the principal is still the same.

yes i fully understand this, but put your finger near the tip of a air gun, its cool air, not cold, nowhere near -40c.

to go to -40C you would need a pressure drop of about 500PSI.

He said it produced air at -40C and air at 110c, to me this sounds like a refrigeration process even if it is a very rudementary system.

This is purely a guess, but in a vortex i suppose there would be a hot and cold part as it comes out of whatever hole is in it, its a matter off spliting certain areas of the vortex apart.

Thats a guess based on looking at the components of the tool.

i think we're way off topic here,

but compressed air is warmer than ambient air as PV=nRT. so as pressure rises so does Temperature.

no refrigeration in this component. Only thing that goes through it is air

Hey I don't mind the off-topic. I got my answer thanks. Am going to widen the drum to 12" with a 2" diameter. But this vortex thing sounds interesting, has anybody got more detailed pics of how it looks like inside. I must say at the price you paid there aren't a lot of bits.

less parts = less to break

therefore high price

gorilla wrote:less parts = less to break

therefore high price

so hammers should be about $40K ea.

less parts = cheaper to manufacture = cheaper for consumer.

However, Injenuity+Patent = $$$.

if you use a hammer every day itll last 2 years before you need a new one..... even estwing are like that

GUJohnno wrote:From what I have found

12" wide with 2"dia drum and a fancy bit on the end!
Drum mods. Smaller dia drum means higher pulling power (about 20%) but with a reduction in speed (which the 8274 can afford).

The original drum diameter is 3.5" - at least mine is. If you change this to 2" this will theoretically increase the max line pull from 8000lb to 14000lb (8000 X 3.5/2 = 14,000lb). A 75% increase not 20%. If you are still using 8mm wire this has a breaking strain in good condition of 9800lb or thereabouts so be prepared for a few problems.

The smaller diameter drum combined with the extra length and the increased loading will also lead to higher bending and shear stresses than the original. The wall thickness will almost certainly have to be increased over the original 1/4" to compensate. Do you know what is the thickness of the 2" drum in the picture?

Also 2" seems rather a tight bend if you are still using wire.

Just some thoughts.

David

I am going to use 12mm Vectran which is supposed to have a 14000kg rating when new. I am going to use a 2" tube with 8mm wall and 650MPa yield. So should be OK. I think the alu sideplate will probably start buckling if the tube holds out. Has this happened to anyone? Or does the gearbox fail first?