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Do i really have to buy a patrol???
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:59 am
by Shark
Okay i dont go out four wheeling a hell of alot, i do build my cars up to be tourers than off road weapons but the other day i drew the line.
Went out with a bunch from the perth4x4 crew and went for a run. I was the only rover there and i was really dissapointed with the places the car wouldnt go. I guess its the suspension that really lets it down.... I mean you can do a 2" spring lift on a patrol and fit 33" with heaps of room for flexing and you do a 2" on a disco and stick on 31's and they foul on the rear even with the rear quarter cut.
What do i need to do to this car to get it to go where the others go with a decent amount of wheel travel and if more possible a decent lift without thinking of a bodylift...
Has anyone done a four inch spring lift?? Is it really not possible??
Help us out, i love my disco ( Ser1 ) and i dont wanna get rid of it, i deally i would like to run 285/75/16's
Marc
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:15 am
by red90
OK.... Well a stock Disco should eat a stock Patrol for breakfast, based on my experience of wheeling with Patrols for many years with my Disco. I assume these Patrols had a lot of mods.
A 2 inch suspension lift, a rear locker, 265/75/16 and a little trimming and you will be fine. Lose the front sway bar if you have one.
Or get a Defender. 285/75/16 fit with zero mods.
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:51 am
by Loanrangie
a disco has a much better suspension design than any jap 4by, if you want to fit big tyres then a set of lra flares are the way to go.
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:53 am
by TuffRR
A 285/75 is too wide for a Discovery without stuffing around with chopping guards, offset rims, upgrade axles etc. 265/75 is about the widest you can get and keep it relatively standard.
A patrol on 33's would have about the same clearance under the diff as a rover on 31's because of the size difference of the diffs.
One advantage a Patrol has over a Rover is the LSD in the rear. A rear diff lock in the D1 would solve this problem though.
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:15 pm
by nunoeumiranda
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:39 pm
by shakes
stick your head under the disco with a tape and measure your diff's to the ground.
1) 31's arnt far off 33's on a patrol, so its not a clearance issue.
2) your rear end will "out flex" anything else from the factory.
the front wont lift a wheel anywhere the patrol doesnt
3) a 4" spring lift wont generally give you any more travel than a 2" lift but will make it ALOT more unstable, trim your gaurds and keep it low as possible.
4) now all thats left is lockers, tyre choice, and a driver that can pick decent lines and use(or not use) the skinny pedal at the right times
after watching people in rovers drive up hills and I followed them bouncing up, my patrol got sold and I now have a Rangey.
Simon
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:13 pm
by nunoeumiranda
If go to a 4" suspension you need to enlarge the disco with rims and tyres and buy a good set of shocks and springs... or you will see it bouncing and bouncing every corners...
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:46 pm
by Shark
Okay so i put on a 2" suspension lovell spring lift but with the winch and bar fitted it has sagged quite a bit..
So i would assume that first things is sort out the front of the car so its the same height all around.
I have already cut the rear quarter so it looks like i will have to cut some more, even though i dont want to.
Do i have to extend the bump stops 2 inches???
Marc
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:07 pm
by nunoeumiranda
U can trim the wheel Arch and apply a set from a defender or similar .. maybe like this ones
http://www.devon4x4.com/library/?articleid=8
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:31 pm
by Maggot4x4
Rngie has 2" Springs, 1/5" Body Lift, 2 locked and 315's
http://www.reads4x4.com/images/toyota%20vs%20rangie.wmv
And some discos
http://www.reads4x4.com/images/discos%20at%20play.wmv
PS, Broadband only, they are quite large
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:41 pm
by 460cixy
the old rangie has had no trouble going where a patrol will with stock rubber and no bl or spring lift. and its the same as a d1 were you getting hung up on stuff or was it just the tyres scrubing out? i found no trouble fitting taller tyres like 750x16 and had plenty of room to move but wider tyres on my alloys would be a diffrant story remember wider is not allways the best way to go
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:39 am
by 460cixy
that cruiser pig rootin and bouncin around was just gold pure gold
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:36 am
by rick130
Shark wrote:Okay so i put on a 2" suspension lovell spring lift but with the winch and bar fitted it has sagged quite a bit..
So i would assume that first things is sort out the front of the car so its the same height all around.
I have already cut the rear quarter so it looks like i will have to cut some more, even though i dont want to.
Do i have to extend the bump stops 2 inches???
Marc
don' use off the shelf Lovells if you want flex, they are miles too stiff.
Look at JB's excellent spring chart
here
to help decide which way to jump.
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:12 am
by landy_man
rick130 wrote:Shark wrote:Okay so i put on a 2" suspension lovell spring lift but with the winch and bar fitted it has sagged quite a bit..
So i would assume that first things is sort out the front of the car so its the same height all around.
I have already cut the rear quarter so it looks like i will have to cut some more, even though i dont want to.
Do i have to extend the bump stops 2 inches???
Marc
don' use off the shelf Lovells if you want flex, they are miles too stiff.
Look at JB's excellent spring chart
here
to help decide which way to jump.
spot on..
the Lovells springs are letting you down..
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:23 pm
by Shark
Okay well ineed to replace the front lovells because of the winch and new bar and was gonna go with OME's will they be kay and i think i am decided on a LRA set of fibreglass flares and some cutting. I dont mind cutting but i want it to look good after i have done it...
Marc
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:12 pm
by mcrover
You have to do 3 basic things to make a lifted pootrol look stupid.
1. 40mm body lift gives clearance under the guards
2. fit 750x16 muddies gives you more diff clearance than an pootrol and heaps of traction.
3. Fit an air locker to the rear and while down at ARB may as well put one in the front to or maxi drive with axels if you prefer.
you still have a roadworthy and safe car with plenty of flex that will pretty much go anywhere a vehical is meant to go without being built for comps and you can still go the susp lift if you want but the 2" lift you have should be more than good.
Only Jeep owners need to extend bump stops because they cant raise their body.
Speak to Andrew Richmond at LRA about a complete kit body and susp, they do a good one but a little bit pricey it's all quality though.
He can even help you with a TD5 convertion re: another one of your posts.
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:38 pm
by Bruzar
Do i really have to buy a patrol???
yes
SWB to
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:11 pm
by Shark
Instead of the 40mm bodylift can i buy some of those disco flares and cut my guards???
Marc
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:17 pm
by Animal Mother
Why don't you want a body lift? THe body lift should come well before a spring lift.
I have an '88 Rangie, 1" (yes, 1 inch!) lift, 31" tyres and it kicks the ass of most things out there that have spent upwards of $5000 on mods alone! My car didn't even cost $5000!
IMHO this is what you should do, in this order too (no offence BTW):
1. Do a 4wd course
2. Get a body lift, 1" is easy, no messing about with fitting, subtle but gives clearance
3. A set of BFG Muddies
4. Spring lift (3" frnt and 2" rear)
5. Lockers (if you insist!)
WHat you'll have there is a killer truck that could take on most things!
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:19 pm
by Suspension Stuff
If you still want more flex you can tie in the rear coils and get longer shocks and you will out flex a 4 inch lifted Patrol or Cruiser. email me if you want pics on how I tied mine at the rear.
I used off the shelf Lovells coils but most resellers don't know what is on the shelf if it is a bit out of the ordinary.
The Rangie not only flexed well but it moulded to the terrain better at speed to keep the feet on the ground for max traction.
I now have a Cruiser and I miss my Rangie even though it was a lemon.
Shane.
Re: Do i really have to buy a patrol???
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:07 am
by simon-reid
Shark wrote:Okay i dont go out four wheeling a hell of alot, i do build my cars up to be tourers than off road weapons but the other day i drew the line.
Went out with a bunch from the perth4x4 crew and went for a run. I was the only rover there and i was really dissapointed with the places the car wouldnt go. I guess its the suspension that really lets it down.... I mean you can do a 2" spring lift on a patrol and fit 33" with heaps of room for flexing and you do a 2" on a disco and stick on 31's and they foul on the rear even with the rear quarter cut.
What do i need to do to this car to get it to go where the others go with a decent amount of wheel travel and if more possible a decent lift without thinking of a bodylift...
Has anyone done a four inch spring lift?? Is it really not possible??
Help us out, i love my disco ( Ser1 ) and i dont wanna get rid of it, i deally i would like to run 285/75/16's
Marc
I thought the disco went good on the powerlines, you didn't really attempt much of the harder stuff I think if you had of tried it you might have been suprised how it went.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:56 am
by evanstaniland
Animal Mother wrote:
IMHO this is what you should do, in this order too (no offence BTW):
1. Do a 4wd course
2. Get a body lift, 1" is easy, no messing about with fitting, subtle but gives clearance
3. A set of BFG MuddiesBFGs are overrated go mtr's orsomthing similar!!
4. Spring lift (3" frnt and 2" rear)
5. Lockers (if you insist!)
WHat you'll have there is a killer truck that could take on most things!
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:58 am
by Reddo
Having got three or four 4wds in the family - a Paj (rear LSD), 40 series and an older Rodeo, after getting the D1 Disco we were all stunned where it would go straight out of the box and just how comfortable it was off road.
We have a 'test' track on our farm, and it simply ate it for breakfast, only bettered by the sprung over 40 with 35's and a young fella (ie. idiot)driving. In fact the Disco was a bit frightening in some places....eg., the 1 in 3 muddy hill descent and climb with severe holes and serious side slope - though it did get stuck in creek at the bottom of the V, on the towbar (since raised 3 inches)
Cost us 3.2K to buy and since then we have added 2'' spring lift (Dobinson) and 2.5" body lift, BFG 33's and front and rear lockers with later model rear axles and JacMac fronts and thicker flanges (cause they say the 10 spine stuff breaks easily), 4.11s (for the 35's at XMAS). The cost is still under 12K in TOTAL and you can imagine how it now goes off-road.
Maybe the springs are too stiff, preventing travel. I can't understand why you are having issues keeping up, maybe it's a confidence thing as I know from experience and comparisons that the Discos are very capable.
Frankly, I would not have anything else now cept maybe a Patrol if I had a spare 20K to spend to get the same outcome.
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:41 pm
by DiscoDino
Honnestly, each 4x4 can be modified into a wheeler...its a matter of what you like...for me, the Rover did it for me because of the aluminum drivetrain, small V8 and robust chassis...
I'm running 42" tires with a 2" OME lift on my Disco...lots of modifications, but it is doable...everything costs money, so think of this regardless...
I'd do the following:
1. trim a LOT
2. put loads of body protection & winch
3. do the Toy conversion with lockers and Longfields
4. get a better suspension (not really LIFT, just performance)
5. 36" IROKs/35" ETs (depends where you are)
6. ENJOY
That's provided you have a healthy drivetrain to start with...
Good luck
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:21 am
by mcrover
IMHO I recon your just trying to wind all the rover guys up picking on Disco's.
Iv'e had mine for 3 years and travelled probably about 10 to 15000kms off road and the rest on and I wouldn't go back to a Pootrol for anything.
I dont need 7 seats or cavernas storage space or a 2 door swb that was made in 1983 with 3/4 million kms on the clock with a boat ancor 6 cyl or $20k money pit with a gearbox that is made of glass that you still need to mod to be able to keep up with a standard rover with a reasonable driver.
Pootrols have their place in line at the front of schools at 330pm with the rest of the urban 4x4 crew but if you actually go off road and you dont want to spend up big buy a Rover or keep the one you have, you won't do better.
Ive posted before all the 4wd's Ive owned in the past and as I used to live in high country victoria, I got to drive the roads everyday that most of you guys go on holidays to drive once or twice a year.
I will tell you straight up that the worst car Ive ever owned up till now was a pootrol and the best is my 97 Disco 300TDI auto that I still own and will for a while yet.
You say you dont go 4wding alot well theres your answer, go more often and get a bit of experiance, do a course will help and will give you an Idea of the real limitations of you and your 4b.
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:49 am
by Shark
Guys i think some of you have misunderstood where im coming from... You can lift a patrol 2" and stick 33/12.5 on where as you cant do that to a disco.
Im not scared of taking it anywhere within reason i guess the biggest problem is i have never had to cut the guards so much on a car before and thats the thing i hate the most i guess.
Im gonna get a set of those disco flares you can get and spend the day with the old man and install them so that will take care of the rubbing on the body i hope without the need for a body lift. Then i will sort out the suspension with a OME set and i hope that will be okay with the 265's.
Then when the house goes next year it will get booked in for twin lockers and then hopefully that will do me.
I didnt try hard at the powerlines cause i would of ripped through some fairly decent tyres...happened once...its weird it looks like i have a bit of clearance at the rear and none at the front yet it rips into the rears all the time and i have already done the camel cut..
In conclusion i would never get rid of my disco i love it to bit and its so comfortable i guess it just get frustrating some times when you want your truck to look tuff without chopping it to bits and trying to keep it on a budget and still legal..
Marc
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:33 pm
by mcrover
40mm body lift is legal as long as you use the right materials e.g. alloy or steel not nylon and is able to be insured through AAMI so it cant be that bad.
Suspention lift doesnt give you any more than increasing your centre of gravity, if you fit bigger tyres they will still rub unless you give it a body lift or cut guards.
The only part of the guard you should have to cut is the part behind the front wheels and thats easily done and looks fine.
A suspention lift that still makes your body vulnerable to damage and doesnt stop your 33" wheels hitting the tops of the guards will set you back around $500 to $1000 depending on where you go and what you get.
My body lift cost $30 of alloy blank, $40 to have it machined and not even $20 for misc parts I dont know how much flares cost
For a 40mm BL you dont need to extend steering colum shafts just loosten when you lift and it as there is enough spline to still be well and trully in and can be done in the driveway with a trolly or highlift jack by anyone who owns a shifter a hammer and a cheap bunnings socket set plus your front end remains where it is meant to be so your handling doesn't suffer.
If your worried about diff clearance go 33" Muddies and a body lift and worry about susp and flares latter.
The best way to approach modifying anything is to aproach it from the most logical point first and then see if that result will be appropriate for you, not to go for the most impractical solution to a non existing problem and then try to come up with a solution to the problem you have just made for yourself.
Do what you want to do in the end as only you know what you want but just don't keep avoiding doing what almost everyone is telling you will solve your problem, quickly, easily and cheaply.
Buy the way, to lift a GU pootrol 2" requires a hell of a lot more than just springs like a rover, or at least to do it properly it does, and you cant legaly body lift a GU pootrol with air bags as you cant with series2 disco's but even s1 with bags in vic it's legal.
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:20 pm
by Shark
Are body lifts legal in WA???
Marc
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:22 pm
by simon-reid
Shark wrote:Are body lifts legal in WA???
Marc
yes it is
http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/lic_IB-109A.pdf
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:38 pm
by gorilla
yeah marc,
i have a permit for my 50mm body lift, $28
chris
