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Drop Shackles - Advice
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:01 am
by ado250
Thinking of making up some drop shackles for my zook, something just to stuff around with and possibly actually install in future
.
Just want to know if anybody has succesfully made a pair? Does anyone have details/pics of a good design?
Have a reasonable well equiped home workshop, so machining shouldn't be a problem
Cheers,
Ado
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:23 am
by PJ.zook
Ive designed some im about to make, ill post pics when ive mocked one up
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:10 am
by just cruizin'
go 3/4 elliptic. I know that's not what you want but will be a lot more predictable and will give better traction by providing downwards force.
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:29 am
by CWBYUP
The Zuk I bought had a set on it, and they were just copys of climax shackels but dont have a pin.
They work great give heaps of droop and are reasonable predictable. I think its beacuse they used rubber bushes in them and there quite tight.
I'll get some photos tonight.
Nick
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:48 pm
by suzuki boy
I made some up but they dont pivot in the center like climax ones for $7!
Their much made in the shape of a H with 2 high tensile bolts going through the bush and a spring washer and nut on the end! EASY
They work pretty good and if you need that room so your tyres don't rub it's pretty good to do!
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:18 pm
by waxhead..
Dean from my club has made some and they go ok, but his is a trailer/rig rig, and I am pretty sure without locking pins they are horrid on the road. He squeezes bump-stopped 32's under his WT without a bodylift.
But IMO I get about the same droop in the front as he does with RUF and ext. shackles...
I am contemplating making them for the rear of mine.
His are basically just two sets of shackles joined in the middle, andthe other ends to the chassis and spring...
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:47 pm
by ado250
The climax design is super (see it on the BBM site). I also think the pin is a bit more sound. They really shouldn't be flopping around at high speeds, slow wheeling speeds ok
Just put my 2 inch lifted EFS's on today, and already have extended shackles but already, am wanting something more
If anyone has any pics of designs then that will be appreciated. I will also look into modelling the climax design plus pins.
Ado
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:44 pm
by Goatse.AJ
Do a search or look in the bible for comments on drop shackles. The general consensus is that they are crap.
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:32 pm
by sierrajim
I had drop shackles (built by a shop here in Melbourne) on my old sierra.
They do provide lots of "poser" flex. However this generally is totally un-usable and more often than not quite un predictable.
They were on the front, when climbing the suspension would just unload.
I had buggy leaf on the rear using two springs (military wrap on the upper of the two) to stiffen the rear beyond the normal single leaf used most often in this type of suspension. Worked OK when used in conjunction with CORRECTLY placed bump stops.
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:53 pm
by ado250
There goes that idea
Maybe I will stick with the extended shackles/springs/1.5 inch body lift.
Ado
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:01 pm
by Goatse.AJ
I think you'll be much happier with that.
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:33 pm
by Bad JuJu
I have them (made by terraflex) front & rear.
I am SPUA on WT diffs, 32" Mongrals on 15x8 rims, 2" body and 2"spring lift.
I use stock TJ Wrangler shocks front and rear which limit the shackle extention to about 3/4 open.
I have no problems with them unloading during climbs.
I have no problems on side slopes
I have no problems downhill
I have no problems under braking
They can not invert like standard shackles.
I dont have uncontrolled flex, or unpredicatable suspension activity.
Infact there is no problem that I can think of in regard to function.
I think that this setup is nearly as good as coils and has very similar suspension characteristics, ie a decent but limited amount of compression via bumpstops but a lot of droop.
I would like a front pan hard though for more precise steering at speed on road ond off - that said Sieras aren't the best on road, even stock and I am certain that it is no worse having fitted and used these shackles for more than a year.
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:36 pm
by suzuki boy
Bad JuJu wrote:I have them (made by terraflex) front & rear.
I am SPUA on WT diffs, 32" Mongrals on 15x8 rims, 2" body and 2"spring lift.
I use stock TJ Wrangler shocks front and rear which limit the shackle extention to about 3/4 open.
I have no problems with them unloading during climbs.
I have no problems on side slopes
I have no problems downhill
I have no problems under braking
They can not invert like standard shackles.
I dont have uncontrolled flex, or unpredicatable suspension activity.
Infact there is no problem that I can think of in regard to function.
I think that this setup is nearly as good as coils and has very similar suspension characteristics, ie a decent but limited amount of compression via bumpstops but a lot of droop.
I would like a front pan hard though for more precise steering at speed on road ond off - that said Sieras aren't the best on road, even stock and I am certain that it is no worse having fitted and used these shackles for more than a year.
Would the wrangler shocks with a 3 inch lift? Dad's got some in the shed i could use if they did!
THANKS
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:19 pm
by Bad JuJu
Sorry I dont know.
Remove your shocks, flex, measure....Then measure your old mans shocks.
You have to push pins out of the rear shocks to fit them.
It only costs time.
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:22 pm
by suzuki boy
How do you get the pins out/ Just with a hammer? Might try them on the friday because i have an rdo!
Just the stock ones yeah?
THANKS
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:17 pm
by Bad JuJu
I pushed the pins out with a press, but a vice and a bit of pipe would work just as well.
And yep stock shocks..the German ones with the plastic tubular boot things
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:21 am
by Guy
I had rears up front with "drop shackles" and same as Sierra Jim found that they were junk. Rears up front with longer shackles was much better, more stable in corners and in the bush, also found that I had less spring wrap with solid shackle.
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:22 am
by bazooked
Bad JuJu wrote:I have them (made by terraflex) front & rear.
I am SPUA on WT diffs, 32" Mongrals on 15x8 rims, 2" body and 2"spring lift.
I use stock TJ Wrangler shocks front and rear which limit the shackle extention to about 3/4 open.
I have no problems with them unloading during climbs.
I have no problems on side slopes
I have no problems downhill
I have no problems under braking
They can not invert like standard shackles.
I dont have uncontrolled flex, or unpredicatable suspension activity.
Infact there is no problem that I can think of in regard to function.
I think that this setup is nearly as good as coils and has very similar suspension characteristics, ie a decent but limited amount of compression via bumpstops but a lot of droop.
I would like a front pan hard though for more precise steering at speed on road ond off - that said Sieras aren't the best on road, even stock and I am certain that it is no worse having fitted and used these shackles for more than a year.
i disagree u cant compare them to coils at all they dont even come close, coils provide more traction than leafs will any day, and as for gay factor the whacky shackles r there.
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:27 am
by Bad JuJu
Disagree all you like I don't mind.
I tried some simply because I got hold of some cheap.
I can only relate my own experiences rather than the third hand opinions of others and internet web wheeling experts.
Its interesting many manufacturers make and sell these here and in the US and I cant find anywhere except here that constantly bags them, without trying them first.
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:55 pm
by DiddyZook
Bad JuJu
Any more details on Terraflex drop shackles? Pricing? Climax are pricey.
I have to agree with you that there are a lot of 'mondays heroes' on here, who will knock something or offer an opinion when they have no real experience. Those who have never driven with a locker who will bag them, those without drop shackles who will bag them etc.
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:47 pm
by bazooked
Bad JuJu wrote:Disagree all you like I don't mind.
I tried some simply because I got hold of some cheap.
I can only relate my own experiences rather than the third hand opinions of others and internet web wheeling experts.
Its interesting many manufacturers make and sell these here and in the US and I cant find anywhere except here that constantly bags them, without trying them first.
well the man is asking for advice and he got it, 98% of those us rigs are trailer and ramp queens, which does not apply here. , and for being called monday heros???, well im speaking from experience and if ya cant do it the right way and the safe and predictable way dont do it at all, and i think u will find alot of people on here will agree that coils are far superior and do not even compare to whack shackles.
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:56 pm
by Bad JuJu
DiddyZook wrote:Bad JuJu
Any more details on Terraflex drop shackles? Pricing? Climax are pricey.
I have to agree with you that there are a lot of 'mondays heroes' on here, who will knock something or offer an opinion when they have no real experience. Those who have never driven with a locker who will bag them, those without drop shackles who will bag them etc.
Unfortunatly they are all expensive, prohibitivly so for experimentation. I got mine from someone on here more than a year ago - and had to use modified bushes to fit them.
bazooked wrote:Bad JuJu wrote:Disagree all you like I don't mind.
I tried some simply because I got hold of some cheap.
I can only relate my own experiences rather than the third hand opinions of others and internet web wheeling experts.
Its interesting many manufacturers make and sell these here and in the US and I cant find anywhere except here that constantly bags them, without trying them first.
well the man is asking for advice and he got it, 98% of those us rigs are trailer and ramp queens, which does not apply here. , and for being called monday heros???, well im speaking from experience and if ya cant do it the right way and the safe and predictable way dont do it at all, and i think u will find alot of people on here will agree that coils are far superior and do not even compare to whack shackles.
I did not say they were superior to coils.
I can't see professionally designed and constructed items as unsafe. I have already stated that from my experience they are not unpredictable.
Home made jobs hmmmm I agree with you about being potentially unsafe.
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:52 am
by sierrajim
Bad JuJu wrote:Disagree all you like I don't mind.
I tried some simply because I got hold of some cheap.
I can only relate my own experiences rather than the third hand opinions of others and internet web wheeling experts.
Its interesting many manufacturers make and sell these here and in the US and I cant find anywhere except here that constantly bags them, without trying them first.
Without getting into an argument about the web wheeling experts comment.
Successful 4WD manufacturers and stores market their product to the guy who really doesn't know what does and doesn't work too well by using that WOW factor.
Drive a rig to the top of the ramp and its all of a sudden an "offroad weapon". Drop shackles certainly give you this effect.
If your shocks are limiting your drop shackles i wouldn't expect that your shocks will last too long unless they have internal bump stops.
As i said i've used them, broken them, won't use them again.
If you don't think that your suspension is unloading you're probably not driving the hard stuff. They're really no different to air shocks, when you climb the front end can unload, usually does. Perhaps this is why almost every buggy uses a winch to compress and limit front droop in this situation?
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:00 pm
by Guy
DiddyZook wrote:Bad JuJu
Any more details on Terraflex drop shackles? Pricing? Climax are pricey.
I have to agree with you that there are a lot of 'mondays heroes' on here, who will knock something or offer an opinion when they have no real experience. Those who have never driven with a locker who will bag them, those without drop shackles who will bag them etc.
I have had drop shackles around 30.000Ks worth of on/offroad experiance , Jim has had drop shackles and driven with them .. didnt like em.. swapped to more stable setups
Some people on here who dont know others or their experiance with certian products will bag the person for their opinion..
Kermit the LJ used to run drop shackles, but unless it was for posing the shackle was pinned closed during offorad comp work ... why do you think that was ?? must have forgot all the time
It has been a while since I have had a Zuk but my experiance is no less valid.
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:14 pm
by Guy
Bad JuJu wrote:I have them (made by terraflex) front & rear.
I am SPUA on WT diffs, 32" Mongrals on 15x8 rims, 2" body and 2"spring lift.
I use stock TJ Wrangler shocks front and rear which limit the shackle extention to about 3/4 open.
I have no problems with them unloading during climbs.
I have no problems on side slopes
I have no problems downhill
I have no problems under braking
They can not invert like standard shackles.
I dont have uncontrolled flex, or unpredicatable suspension activity.
Infact there is no problem that I can think of in regard to function.
I think that this setup is nearly as good as coils and has very similar suspension characteristics, ie a decent but limited amount of compression via bumpstops but a lot of droop.
I would like a front pan hard though for more precise steering at speed on road ond off - that said Sieras aren't the best on road, even stock and I am certain that it is no worse having fitted and used these shackles for more than a year.
So basically what your saying is that with a marginally extended conventional shackle you could have all the same charachstics you have now without the added expense and bling of the revolvers, a stock TJ shock is not all that long about 8 inch stroke in front adn 7 inchs in the rear if memory serves. only about 2 or 3 inchs differnt from factory.
My guess is that you dont see any real ill effect from your revolvers due to your limited vertical travel (not to be confused with articulation) But never having seen your truck in action .. I might be talking out of my backside.
BUt if *YOU* are happy with your setup best of luck to you ... spend more time wheeling and less time modding