Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just wondering if any one is able to help with converting my ox hydraulic winch from the power steering circuit to a pump either off the pto or engine mounted so I can get the winch working a bit faster and better. I believe that I need to up the flow rate a bit but keep the same presure.

Can any one help

Russ

what you will need-

pump: up to 70ltrs/min, the motor on the winch should handle this
pressure relief valve: to set max psi and bypass if achived
control valve: to control winching in and out
tank: for hyd fluid
filter
hoses and fittings

keep the hoses as short as possible. you may want to consider a counter balance or double over center valve for the winch. if you bust a hose and lose pressure while winching the winch has no brake so will free spool out.

ox is mile maker look at there web site and they have some good info

cheers, serg

I believe thet have a restrictor plate at the hyd motor to reduce flow if a hose blows. This also slows the winch down. You should also think about an oil cooler in the return line
J Top

The control valves on the motor are not the best quality and will not handle much higher flow rates.

You will need to replace these with what Serg suggested. My preference is for a 3 position manual operated directional control valve (as used on mobile equipment). These will allow you to control the winch speed and direction with the hand lever. They usually have a pressure relief valve built in.

You will also need a counterbalance or overcentre valve, which will act as a brake (they don't have any mechanical brake).

As Serg said, the motor you have will handle much more flow.

Upping flow to 70 l/min is a big jump from about 10/15 l/min from the p/s pump. 70 l/min of oil flow will make a crap load of heat when using any type of valve to control the flow (speed), so unless you want a 100l oil tank underneath, an oil cooler will be a good idea.

Anybody know exactly what motor is on those things? A mate will give me an old winch with no (electric) motor and i mite look at dropping a planetry set out and converting to hydraulic.

my mile maker 9000lb has a "white roller" motor as does the 10,000lb model. the 12,000 comes with a "danfoss" motor which are also used on warn hyd winches.

my winch came with the motor only, no power steering stuff and my double over center valve bolts straight to the motor ports.

my tank holds about 20lts, has a large surface area and is made from alloy so should disipate the heat ok.

i have a c-top control valve that uses a remote hand set for in and out. no speed control but with 5 gears to choose from and if inside the cab i can use the throtle to control speed.
also the winch is two speed so many combos to choose from.

keep your suction line(from tank to pump) as short and as big ID as possible.

cheers, serg

How are they doin the 2 speed, mechanically (2-speed box) or hydraulics?

20L aint nearly enough oil for 70l/min flow without a cooler. As a guideline they say tank should be 3 x the flow volume, but obviously this is not convient on a mobile vehicle, so you can usually get buy with same as oil flow if everything is ok. Smaller than this will need oil cooler. If you cant hold your hand on the oil tank - its too hot!

We had a truck mounted shit spreader at work that used 80l/min to spin two motors, it had a 200l oil tank mounted in the open and ran hot enough is summer to cook the hoses, mainly because he was running the motors too fast (too much oil flow)

Danfoss motors are a good thing, White RE/RS ?????? seen a lot of dead ones!

20 liters plus what´s in the hoses is enough .... works for the guys that run the warn hydraulic here so ....

If the pump can be turned off and on a large tank isn't required, as the normal rule of thumb for a hydraulic system is the tank shoud be 3 times the pump capacity IE 70 lt/min should have a 210lt tank but that for continious running. When i had my hyd set up it was loosely based on a hydrostatic system and had a 2ltr header tank and it worked a treat but i closely monitored pressure as if it went to relief pressure it would quickly fry the oil. Mine was set up on a high mount to work in conjunction with the elec system system, the hyd drive operated when winching in only so the valving i used was simple and could handle the large flows. I did find it hard to use thou so went back to just and elec system.

Wally

Hobbz wrote:20 liters plus what´s in the hoses is enough .... works for the guys that run the warn hydraulic here so ....

What ambient temp you running in tho..........summer at 40+ degrees tests things out. If you check you warn info, they dont run and arnt rated for 70l/min flows.

yes its a two speed planetary gear box.

as stated all rates are max flow/pressure at continuous use.

i'm no hyd guy, but my pump is selectable via pto so only runs when winching. i had it running yesterday to pay the cable out then in. probably had the pump running for a full 4-5mins and tank was no hotter than air temp and same for the filter. this on the gold coast at about 24c

like i said tank holds about 20lts, have a look at the little tanks on small hiabs and palfingers. for my use i think it will be fine, if it gets too hot just stop have a drink, chill out and then start again.

cheers serg

25 C ... we run a 60L pump ..... Goes pretty nicely and are reliable ...

ricky1970 wrote:How are they doin the 2 speed, mechanically (2-speed box) or hydraulics?

20L aint nearly enough oil for 70l/min flow without a cooler. As a guideline they say tank should be 3 x the flow volume, but obviously this is not convient on a mobile vehicle, so you can usually get buy with same as oil flow if everything is ok. Smaller than this will need oil cooler. If you cant hold your hand on the oil tank - its too hot!

We had a truck mounted shit spreader at work that used 80l/min to spin two motors, it had a 200l oil tank mounted in the open and ran hot enough is summer to cook the hoses, mainly because he was running the motors too fast (too much oil flow)

Danfoss motors are a good thing, White RE/RS ?????? seen a lot of dead ones!

There is a difference between rated pump capacity (at rated speed) and the actual operating speed when driven from the pto on the t/case.

If you want to drive assist, then you need a large pump if pto driven, because the pump speed in the low gears will be much less than rated speed.

As Serg said, Mile Marker winches obtain 2 speeds from the planetary gearing. High speed is useful for rope recovery or light winching if the pump capacity is on the low side.

Still wondering maybe Im a bit slow, from what Ive read it can be done. Does anyone have any part numbers for the pump, pto and any materials that I need etc that I to get this project up and running. or is anyone able to provide photos. I know its a big ask but this is the furthest that Ive been able to get to some answers.

rustynuts, what rig do you have?

is a pto available for it?

i use a "cross" 40 series pump 1.8 cu in per rev displacment

the pto is made by Maxi-drive in Qld, they also have a new pto that will take the 50 series pumps upto 170ltr/min

this is for the landrover lt230 transfer case

the counter balance valve was supplied and fitted by hyteco through Labrador Hydraulics.

the tank was built by a local fabricator to my specs 800 x 250 x 90 all 3 mm except the base which is 10mm, so i could drill and tap for the adaptor i made to fit two filters inside the tank into one suction fitting outside. and the return line. because it was so slim i needed two filters to flow the 70l/min as the one size filter was too big OD.

all fittings, hoses, filters etc can be sourced at your local hyd supplier.

MAKE SURE EVERY COMPONANT WILL FLOW THE AMOUNT OF MOTOR AND PUMP FILTERS, VALVES, HOSES, EVERYTHING.

if the motor on your ox is round in shape my bet would be its a danfoss. look for a part or model number. get on the danfoss web site look for specs on flow and pressure rates and then work your system around this. next after the motor is to sort out the pump. everything else will fall into place.

cheers, serg

Thanks for that serg my car is a bj73 mwb landcruiser it does have a pto output on the transfer. I did contact maxidrive a while ago, they said that they couldnt help me because they omly delt with rovers. Your info has helped heaps thanks.

Russ

David Brown/powauto do a pto for the cruisers, but watch the power you will be using as they only have a limited torque rating (works out to be about 9hp intermintant at 1000 pto rpm from memory). This pto will only give you a (3/4" ?) keyed output shaft, and you will have to adapt a pump on fron there (not hard).

Rule of thumb for hp to drive a hyd pump is 1US GPM (3.785L) @ 1500 psi = 1hp. ie 70lpm (18.5gpm) @ 200BAR (close to 3000psi) = APPROX. 37hp

PTO speed will vary with engine rpm and gear selected (1:1 in top gear?), most common gear pumps dont like to be run to slow (3-400 rpm is slow) so keep in mind when selecting a pump.

The other options to pto drive are belt drive from engine pulley or direct couple to crankshaft.

Suitable pumps for doing this, with an electromagnetic clutch, are Parker (Gresen) CP16 series. The clutch can be had with pulleys for 2 B section vee belts, flat ribbed serpentine belts or direct crankshaft mount.

Talking to a mate during the week, he has a PTO/pump from a 75 series cruiser that he would sell (no use for it). Think it is a Toyota pto with an adaptor made to mount the pump. Pump is 1.94 ci/rev and was used to run a trencher of a Landcruiser.

If you could get back to me with the details that would be fantastic. Just p.m me

Cheers Russ