Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi Guys

I am running a warn 8274 an Xp motor. Its powered from a single optima yellow top using albright solenoids, and a 3 pole internal toggle switch. Unfortunately when first wired up the motor was gettin very hot, so I improved connections on each terminal and increased all cables to 35mm2. The winch still lacks power and spools in much better than it spools out. I have checked the motor recently by removing the top housing and connecting to a friends warn solenoid pack and the motor worked perfectly, so I can rule out the motor. At the same time I also checked the gear box which has only just be reconditioned. The winch also has new clutch, bushes and brake assembly.

I have been adived previously that the winch will suffer a lack of power from bad connections. I now have only a couple more connections on the cut off switch to renew. This runs through the power cable to the solenoids. Would this be enough to give me the previously menetioned problems? Any help is very wecome thanks guys. I am a bit baffled right now....

Many thanks

are you running an earth from the motor casing to the chassis or right back to the battery?


from what i can remember my dads one winds in slightly quicker than it winds out but do go quotin me on that

also are you running a earth cable from the solinoid box to the motor?

make sure that the motor is earthing to the battery too as mentioned before.

sounds like one of your solenoids is a bit doggy.
If it worked well on your mates solenoid pack then I would be looking at yours.
Take note of the 2 spool out solenoids.


Cheers
Dazza

Cheers Guys

The solenoids are brand new allbrights, and although it is possible, I would like to think that they work properly. I will not rule this out just yet tho.

I have earthed my winch to the battery yes, using 35mm cable. You mentioned the earthing of the solenoids...Mine currently earths to the bodywork, would It make a difference running it to else where? I had planned to change it to the earth on the motor following seeing a mates original warn solenoid pack.

The difference in speed when spooling out as to spooling in is drastic. There is no lag before the brake stops the drum as its not goin fast enough as you would normaly associate with an 8274.

Does the wiring to switches impact how th winch runs?

Thanks again guys

You mentioned a cut off switch?
Do you mean a switch between the battery and the solenoids?
If so what's the switch rated at?

Try removing it and connecting the solenoids directly to the battery.

I could be wrong but it sounds to me like you've got your cables on the solenoid ass about. Have you got a wiring diagram to go by? Let me know and if not I can give you one.

beretta, I have followed a wiring diagram yes, although if you have further diagrams i would be grateful to cross check against them incase. I switched the negative cables from F1 and F2 at the solenoid end today. the result was that the slower spooling was going in rather than out previously. would this suggest a poor cable that needs replacing? would an older cable provide greater resistance reducing power to the winch?

The switch fitted is a very heavy duty isolator and is recommended for this purpose. Its also new and im confident its ok as i bipassed it and got the same results.

Cheers guys. I appreciate this help. Got a challenge on 29th, so the pressure is on.

is there anything on here that could help?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/8274/

Thanks for this help guys. I have to admit from conversations today it appears there is some errors in my wiring. If there is a comprehensive wiring diagram available thats striaght forward to follow I would be very gratful. Cheers guys

Paul

Look at the albright so the power terminal posts are on top and the 3 spade terminals are closest to you.

Then:

The lead from the motor field 'F1' terminal connects to the right rear terminal post of the albright.

The lead from the motor field 'F2' terminal connects to the left rear terminal post of the albright.

The lead from the motor armature 'A' terminal connects to the left front terminal post of the albright.

The +ve batery lead connects to the centre front terminal post of the albright. The white wire of the remote control also connects to this terminal post.

For the 3 spade terminals:

The green lead of the remote control connects to the left spade terminal.

The earth wire connects to the centre spade terminal.

The black wire of the remote control connects to the right spade terminal.

Or if you like pictures....

http://www.dnaoffroad.com.au/Images/Albright%20conn.JPG

Cheers

Cheers guys. The problems I have and symptoms such as the motor getting hot and lackin power but then having suddern surges, gettin faster and then slower. The winch 'switches', very occassionaly choose not to work yet the solenoid stil clicks but the winch does nothing. All these problems have been advised to be an earth problem from the battery to the chassis. The motor is earthed to the -ve on the battery. I have had problems starting the car in the past due to a bad earth. Has anyone else experienced this and come to good solutions?

Many thanks

Paul

What orientation have you mounted the albright?

They can be mounted horizontally or vertically. If vertical the terminal posts must point up.

The albrights are mounted vertically. (As in the terminals are on the top)

We have now tried the winch using a warn solenoid pack and a 2nd earth from the negative on the battery to the chassis with a good contract. Unfortunately although this improved things very slightly for a few minutes, the motor still got very hot and gradually lost what little power it had. I then switched back to my albright solenoids with the same result, so I am fairly confident they are ok. As the current across the battery and to the winch is fine everything now either points to the motor or the cables, possible including the new earth?!?! I just dont know

I am baffed people.

Probably the easiest way to fault find now is to continue with the elimination method. Do you have a mate that you can try his stuff i.e. swap motor, then cables etc?

Cheers

Albyone - yeah fortunately my mate runs a similar 8274 with xp motor, but hes retained the oringinal warn solenoids. Ive already tried his solenoids on my winch with the same results. This used my earth and positive feeds to my battery.

Next step is to use my car to power his winch by parking them side by side and connecting the wires ova to see what happens! If we get the same result again I will pressume the problem lies within the wires as I am fairly confident my solenoids are good!?!?

Sounds like you have tried most things - it could be a dodgy earth cable or power cable itself i.e. breaking down along the strand somewhere or at the lugs? I’d double check all cables and swap them out even if it is with other temporary cables to be sure.

i am inclined to agree mate. The earth from the motor to the -ve on the battery is brand new and has good terminals which are properly crimped on. Its 35mm2 so I'm confident in that one. Following the test with me mates winch, if the problems lies within the electrics rather than the motor I will be replacing all the wires as a precaution and for my own piece of mind.

Do you know in your experience of cables breaking down within their length often or easily? Particularly with age?


Cheers mate

Paul

If it is good quality cable, there is little chance of it being an issue along the stands of the cable itself. On rare occurrences, I have seen lugs that looked physically well crimped, be crap from an electrical connection perspective. If your test confirms this, swap out the cables one at a time to isolate the dodgy lead [unless of course you want to rewire the whole shebang for piece of mind]. Let me know how you get on. I’m sure the previous posters and those who have and will view this thread are keen to know what it was.

Cheers

How much use has the xp motor had?

XP motors are known for producing a lot of carbon dust from the brushes wearing. This can build up around the brushes and commutator and cause short circuits.

A common mod for these motors used in comps, is to fit air inlet and outlet lines so that air canbe blown through from the drive end and out at the brushes end. Besides helping with cooling, it removes the carbon dust.

Hi there i know this is a long shot but i have exactly the same problems like yours.

I recently purchased a brand new Warn 6hp motor which is installed on a M8274-50.
Just finished installing a 6hp motor, albright solenoids and synthetic rope.

Unfortunately when spooling the rope with no / zero load, the motor runs really hot. The body of the motor is pretty warm but when you touch the motor from the side (where the heat sinks are) its pretty hot and u cannot hold your hand for long.

I have checked that the Albright wiring is correct.
I have checked that the ground wire is grounded directly to the battery and an extra ground wire from battery to the chassis was added for good measure.
Also i would like to believe the battery is in good nick and for added measure i've also tried to run 2 battery in parallel to power the winch to ensure that is enough juice for the winch.

I don't think the brake is having issues as it's pretty new and the older/ original 4hp motor seems to run faster than the new 6hp motors.

Is there anything else missing in our troubleshooting as i'm really at my ends wit.

What could be the problem causing the 6hp motor is running so hot on no / zero load when spooling in as we are competing in the Rainforest Challenge in less than a week's time.
I hope it's not a lemon motor.

Please do share what was your problem in the end and how did u rectify it.
Thanks