Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:40 am**

I am debating future vehicle purchase, and I for know have my hands on an FJ80 (hopefully just the axles, e-locked!) and a diesel GU Patrol (supposedly 2.2??) that have had a date with a mountain side.

Out of the two, from a general strength and reliability standpoint - which is the best? I assume the GU (Y61?, 2004 to now?) are the beefiest out of the Patrol family? Aren't those what you call H223 and H260, with the rear being mechanically lockable?

So, which would work out best in a buggy application? We're talking pure abusive treatment - pushing ~ 40 inch tires, with a ~ 200HP engine, in a ~ light chassis, all being dragged through the nastiest rocks nature can provide.

Both diffs on both axles are offset a fair bit to the passenger (right) side,
correct? If so, they would be neat in a mid-engine, transaxle-setup'd buggy!

General specs, in relation to what we look for in axles for a competition capable rock buggy, would be sweet! Experiences? Tips? Hints?

This is mostly material for future reference, such that I know what vehicles to prioritize and what to scout junkyards for.

Thanks ya'll!

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:07 am**

I'd go

GU front - strong diff gears etc. large CV's.

80s rear - full floating rear axles upgradable to cromoly.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:03 am**

Why exactly that over an 80 front, is it just overall bigger? High-pinion? Factory locked? Same, huge brakes? What's the WMS, spline count, etc?

Also, whose are those chromoly shafts?

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:34 am**

GU has a bigger diff than the 80. The GU CV's are bigger, but I would have thought that you could still ultimately get stronger CV's for a Toyota. Thats said, I would have thought the LC60 diff would have been better again with upgraded CV's.

Cromoly are alloy steel axles. They're a lot stronger than the factory stuff.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:44 pm**

how much bigger are GU cv's over 80s? i know GQ cv's are considerably smaller than 80s.

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:33 pm**

I don't think GU Cvs are bigger than 80 series having seem two side by side some time ago, they look the same overall dimension, but from memory the Nissan CVs are stronger in some aspects, perhaps the cage is....or maybe the genuine Jap Nissan ones are just better built to start with - a major factor in detemrining overall strength.

PS was comparing Disco/Rover CVs with 60 series and was surprised to see the Rover CVs are actually larger in bell diameter than the lauded 60 series Yota CVs and thicker in the wall!...but the Rover axle/ends are smaller in dia and therefore much weaker...interesting....

Posted: **Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:49 pm**

i have had 38's on my 80 4 over 12 months now and have only busted one cv "properly' as in broke the bell part.. but i have busted the shafts off teh end of a couple..

80 and GU cv's arethe same phisical size but the 80 ones seem to break the shaft off the end....

as for diff centres.. i have never broken a centre in mine in 4 years, and i was runnin 36" pedes b4 the 38's.. but i have had the air locker in there the hole time. that does strengthen them heaps..

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:24 am**

wouldnt 80s be stronger once with longfields??

im also looking for which diffs i want to use in a build, not a buggy but a tough rig!!

arethe diff centers on a 80s centered or do the pumkins have an offset??

same question with the gqs arethe pumkins centered or off set??

will be having drive shafts coming dual hilux transfers...

cheers
Evan...

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:27 am**

evanstaniland wrote:wouldnt 80s be stronger once with longfields?? axles will be by far

im also looking for which diffs i want to use in a build, not a buggy but a tough rig!!

arethe diff centers on a 80s centered or do the pumkins have an offset?? both are offset, the front is fine under a lux, a late model hilux rear housing will match the 80 front.

same question with the gqs arethe pumkins centered or off set?? front is similar in offset to 80s, rear is centred.
will be having drive shafts coming dual hilux transfers...

cheers
Evan...

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:36 am**

GQ / 80 CV similar size, chomoly longfeil;ds = good, GU 30% bigger than GQ plus 40mm wider track

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:38 am**

Yeah, I know the (front) 80 axle is 64" WMS - WMS, and I've heard 8.4 inches being thrown out in regards to R&P size? Can anyone confirm this? How about some numbers one the GU's?

What axles are the competition guys favouring?

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:39 pm**

TLCOR wrote:Yeah, I know the (front) 80 axle is 64" WMS - WMS, and I've heard 8.4 inches being thrown out in regards to R&P size? Can anyone confirm this? How about some numbers one the GU's?...

80 series front crownwheel is about 203mm and high pinion. Nissan GQ and GU front crownwheel is about 233mm and high pinion.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:30 pm**

how about some actual measurements...

Bell Diametre:
80s = 100mm
GQ = 90mm
Hilux/60s = ?? (about 80 - 85 i would say)
GU = ???
100s = ??? (i know its bigger than 80s)

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:16 pm**

-Richo- wrote:how about some actual measurements...

Bell Diametre:
80s = 100mm
GQ = 90mm
Hilux/60s = ?? (about 80 - 85 i would say)
GU = ???
100s = ??? (i know its bigger than 80s)

imo the size really wont have much to do with it differnt materials, treatments and design are more whats gunna determine it

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:13 am**

no kidding, but i would imagine nissan and toyota matrerials would be very similar stock. Larger size and quality material is going to be better than smaller size of the same material.

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:01 am**

Might want to have a look at this, as Cheezy 4x4 doing something and is using the GU.

http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?t=95320

Hope it helps.

Mere

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:31 pm**

toyota nissan mitsubishi mazda and just about all jap cars and trucks use cv joints manufactured by NTN bearings under license from birfield (england) the differant size joints can be identified by a code no. stamped on the housing eg- 95ac 100ac etc. most early cruisers&hilux use 95ac or 95lac joints 80series part time 4wd & 75series use 100lac joints as do GQ patrol. 80 series full time 4wd use 109ac joints, gu patrol use 120lac as do 100series IFS on the outer joints . all NTN cv joints with the same code nos. have the same cages,balls, races the only differance between vehicle manufacturers being the outer stubs&splines to fit their vehicles.as far as strengh gos bigger is better as the materals and and design of all NTN cvs are the same in their 4wd range

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:21 am**

just measured a 60 series CV which is 90mm bell OD - these are tough as nails, but can chip on the star where the ball runs out at full lock causing some clicking under full load.

Don't know the GU CV size but have them in the Disco, and the original Disco CV is 93mm bell OD (wow that big and yet they say they are weak), and the GU ones fit in the standard Rover D1 housing....

Also apart from bigger axle diameter and increased spline count, the star/ball set up appears the same between 60 series and Rover CV. ie same ball size and configuration - thus confirming rvh's comments on manufacture/patent/design apsects. Wonder if the Yota star will fit the Rover bell/housing??? Might try it..or maybe someone already has.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:54 am**

...and Sam says

"The GU cvs arnt really that strong. They have a big bell and internals but have a small outer stub shaft (I believe smaller than a AEU2522 stub). The only good thing about these CV is that the large internals mean the CV doesent fatigue and break unexpectedly - they still twist the outer stub on overload. A Longfield anything would be way stronger IMO".

Yikes!

Ref: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5573766

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:47 am**

are you sure you havnt got GQ's in there, GU's are pretty big

Arnt 60's the same as hilux? not tuff as nails.

So your busting GU's? what motor/tyre/driveline combination you running?

Mock

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:01 am**

Reddo wrote:...and Sam says

"The GU cvs arnt really that strong. They have a big bell and internals but have a small outer stub shaft (I believe smaller than a AEU2522 stub). The only good thing about these CV is that the large internals mean the CV doesent fatigue and break unexpectedly - they still twist the outer stub on overload. A Longfield anything would be way stronger IMO".

Yikes!

Ref: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5573766

The bigger rover CV might have a bigger stub, dont mean Sh%$ they still bust if you look at them, same with hilux.

there are a few guys running GU in the rockcrawling now and they seem to be holding up well, maybe the slightly smaller and longer stub allows a little twist and soaks up the shock load.

Mock

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:06 am**

ljxtreem wrote:
Arnt 60's the same as hilux? not tuff as nails.

Mock

yes

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:14 am**

ZOOK60 wrote:
ljxtreem wrote:
Arnt 60's the same as hilux? not tuff as nails.

Mock
yes

Mock

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:13 pm**

-Richo- wrote:how about some actual measurements...

Bell Diametre:
80s = 100mm
GQ = 90mm
Hilux/60s = ?? (about 80 - 85 i would say)
GU = ???
100s = ??? (i know its bigger than 80s)

100 series cv are same size as 80 series, except stub of the cv for constant 4wd version is about 2 or 3 mm longer.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:17 pm**

Geez ljxtreem, don't say that, I paid for GU CVs, and still got the invoice, from a very reputable supplier.

Somebody please post up the size so I can check them sometime......Googled it but to no avail..

BTW, the old 40s running 60 series CVs with 35 ETs plus pretty aggressive driving and so far so good....but I realise they are not in the same class as the bigger units, 'cause for a given steel strength, more metal 'tween the moving bits is got to be better!

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Toyota FJ80 vs. Nissan GU axles?

Toyota FJ80 vs. Nissan GU axles?