Outer Limits 4x4 Board

A mate is going to hook a sanden aircon pump to a winch motor as an OBA setup.
We are trying to work out how to set up the wiring to power it.
As it only needs to go one way we wont need the complex winch setup.
Any ideas?
Im a bit of a winch wiring noob.
Cheers
Paul.

if you can wire up a relay just hook up the relay the same as spotties just run the power to a/c pump instead you join the activator wire to turn on the relay on when you flick the switch for the winch in the direction you want

its aford not a nissan wrote:if you can wire up a relay just hook up the relay the same as spotties just run the power to a/c pump instead you join the activator wire to turn on the relay on when you flick the switch for the winch in the direction you want

youd need a farking big relay.

id use one of the solinodes out of the controler box . arnt the a sort of relay?? i could be wrong.

not sure what he is tryin to do does he want to just engage the aircon pump at the same time as the winch or redirect power from the aircon pump to the winch?

or does he want to engage the pump and free spool out one way and engage the winch the other way

its aford not a nissan wrote:not sure what he is tryin to do does he want to just engage the aircon pump at the same time as the winch or redirect power from the aircon pump to the winch?

or does he want to engage the pump and free spool out one way and engage the winch the other way

i think he wants to just yes the motor to pump air flick of the switch type thing of pressure swtch at the tank to turn on and off .

its aford not a nissan wrote:not sure what he is tryin to do does he want to just engage the aircon pump at the same time as the winch or redirect power from the aircon pump to the winch?

or does he want to engage the pump and free spool out one way and engage the winch the other way

he wants to use a winch motor to drive an airconditioning pump, as an air compressor.

Shadow wrote:

its aford not a nissan wrote:not sure what he is tryin to do does he want to just engage the aircon pump at the same time as the winch or redirect power from the aircon pump to the winch?

or does he want to engage the pump and free spool out one way and engage the winch the other way

he wants to use a winch motor to drive an airconditioning pump, as an air compressor.

Correct
We are using the motor only from the winch to spin an aircon pump instead of running it off the engine.
We are looking at the motor with the 3 x posts plus earth and want to do away with the whole solinoid pack and make a simpler (and less expensive) way of activating it.

Shadow wrote:

its aford not a nissan wrote:not sure what he is tryin to do does he want to just engage the aircon pump at the same time as the winch or redirect power from the aircon pump to the winch?

or does he want to engage the pump and free spool out one way and engage the winch the other way

he wants to use a winch motor to drive an airconditioning pump, as an air compressor.

ahh now i get it
yes you will need a big relay but the original winch relay will do the job it works the same as a little relay just bigger load capasity i would hook it up the same as spotties but run the activator wire through a pressure switch before the dash switch so when you turn it on it will run till the pressure is up then turn off by itself and you can leave the switch turned on
it will pay to fit a blow off valve set to say 130 psi incase the pressure switch sticks or fails

is that what your after ?

with the three posts on the motor ie; 2 positive and one negative one positive wold be for forward and one for reverse (think thats how i remember it )just find the one you want
if you dont have solinoids super junk have dual batt solinoids which should work you might have to find out how many amps the motor pulls turning the a/c pump

I've never ran awinch motor other than in a wich before but to me they seem to be low speed high torque motors which wouldn't be suitable for your application as it wont turn fast enough to do what you're asking of it. Most A/C compressors don't really start working effeciently until they reach about 1000rpm (compressor speed not engine speed).
Like i said i don't really know, but i'd be double checking that before you put too much time and effort into it.

Other than that, On the winch motor there is a post all by itself and two side by side. The lone one is the armature winding, this needs battery power. The two side by side are field windings, depending on which one of these you power the motor will spin one way or the other. The body of the motor needs to be earthed. I'd use a single winch solenoid to power the armerture and the desired field.

Hope this helps, Cheers, Dan

According to mal leslie(melb's winch guru) a 4.6hp warn motor will spin up to 18,000rpm with no load. thats fast in my book.

I tried it but burnt out 2 motors. The applied torque was too much for direct drive and motors overheated. Good Luck

Bazzle

bazzle wrote:I tried it but burnt out 2 motors. The applied torque was too much for direct drive and motors overheated. Good Luck

I agree; this won't work.

There is something simillar that can be had off the shelf from the US.
It doesnt look to be running any gears but it might
http://www.offroaders.com/directory/pro ... ressor.htm

I think this could easily be made to work.

Jimbo wrote:I think this could easily be made to work.

Maybe, I am all in favour of someone else doing the R&D

I ran a Sanden compressor on a bench top using a 240V motor and it was really working the motor hard. It couldn't make much pressure and I could only run it a few minutes before the motor got too hot to continue.

I can't recall which motor I used though. I think it was about a 1kW motor. I guess a beefy enough motor would be fine; what's a winch motor put out?

chimpboy wrote:

Jimbo wrote:I think this could easily be made to work.

Maybe, I am all in favour of someone else doing the R&D

I ran a Sanden compressor on a bench top using a 240V motor and it was really working the motor hard. It couldn't make much pressure and I could only run it a few minutes before the motor got too hot to continue.

I can't recall which motor I used though. I think it was about a 1kW motor. I guess a beefy enough motor would be fine; what's a winch motor put out?

maybe fan cooling would help?

its close enough ratio

750W=1HP

So pick your winch motor and do the math

85lux wrote:According to mal leslie(melb's winch guru) a 4.6hp warn motor will spin up to 18,000rpm with no load. thats fast in my book.

This is my point.. you are saying no load. I feel the load an A/C compressor applies will kill the motor.

Maybe if you use a 6hp motor it may work better. But for the money a 6hp motor is going to cost you, you could buy one of Hobzee's compressors off ebay and have similar performance to your air compressor being ran off a winch motor with alot less hassle and a more compact unit.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Air-Compressor-B ... dZViewItem
Check there.
Cheers Dan

Ok that ebay compressor says that it draws 25 amps on startup which works out to be around 350w (using 14volts from alternator) which is only 1/2 a hp.
There is no way that the ebay setup could compare with mounting a 4.5hp or more winch motor to an air compressor if it was done right.

Gearing or a pully system may be needed to help the motor work at a better rpm. A cooling fan may also help.

Jimmy

Jimbo wrote:Ok that ebay compressor says that it draws 25 amps on startup which works out to be around 350w (using 14volts from alternator) which is only 1/2 a hp.
There is no way that the ebay setup could compare with mounting a 4.5hp or more winch motor to an air compressor if it was done right.

Gearing or a pully system may be needed to help the motor work at a better rpm. A cooling fan may also help.

Jimmy

this is true but to make a aircon compressor run at an efficient level youd need at leask 2K RPM or more. A winch motor is not going to get anywhere near this under load, more like 1krpm.

If you gear it up so it spins at 2krpm(or 3K ideally), then your going to need at least a 6 or 8 hp motor, which will cost a crapload.

Ok before i go on does anyone know roughly the power needed to drive an a/c compressor? I'm guessing that a lot more power is needed to compress a/c gas due to the higher pressures.

What about if they use a compressor from a smaller vehicles a/c unit?

6hp is a figure often quoted when people talk about how much engine power you lose to airconditioning. Dont know how accurate this figure is though, its probably a very rough estimation.

yeah i ahve heard that too

between 6 and 11 hp loss, depends on setup, with it runnin normally, a/c gas pressures are checked between 1500 and 2000 rpm(engine rpm). be easier and better to run the a/c pump from the engine and use a little electric comp for backup

Chook350 wrote:be easier and better to run the a/c pump from the engine and use a little electric comp for backup

I agree but have you seen how much room there is around a Hilux Diesel (with A/C and Power steer) there is Sweet FA!

Well we got it hooked up and it pumps a lot of air but...
It was really loading up the motor at higher PSIs.
It is all still in the testing stage right now and we were only using thin jumper leads to power it.
We will see...

ausyota wrote:

Chook350 wrote:be easier and better to run the a/c pump from the engine and use a little electric comp for backup

I agree but have you seen how much room there is around a Hilux Diesel (with A/C and Power steer) there is Sweet FA!

Well we got it hooked up and it pumps a lot of air but...
It was really loading up the motor at higher PSIs.
It is all still in the testing stage right now and we were only using thin jumper leads to power it.
We will see...

i would be thinking about gearing it down

the thin jumperleads may cause it to heat up aswell as it might not be getting enough power , i would try with the right guage leads and if still loading up too much then try different gearing

just a thought

its aford not a nissan wrote:the thin jumperleads may cause it to heat up aswell as it might not be getting enough power , i would try with the right guage leads and if still loading up too much then try different gearing

just a thought

Yep my thoughts exactly.
It is my mates project and he wont be back to play with it for a couple of weeks.
I will update on progress when there is something to tell.

This is an interesting project, so please keep us informed.

The load on the motor should change with the pressure being generated - for lower pressures, such as pumping up tyres, there shouldn't be as much load and the motor should have an easier life.

At higher pressures the compressor will be harder to drive and work the motor harder - which is where the worst problems will be.

bazzle - when you burnt out two motors, what pressure were you generating, and how fast was the motor running? DC motors generally don't like running slow - that's when they're most likely to overheat. At the same time, I wouldn't expect an AC compressor to generate much pressure at low speed, so I'm confused.