Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Pros and Cons will be many on this, but do the cons outweigh the pros ?

I would like to weld my front dif. I dont have the money or interest for fancy lockers, so why not weld mine ? Hilux dif so cheap to replace.. axles cheap to replace... If I brake something I can still get home ok. I get permanent 4wd when hubs locked in.

But my steering will understeer like a mofo.. and I may brake more axles than most.

Anything else good or bad ? Please let me know cause I am about one 4x4 away from the old CIG locker !

Hello,I run detroits front and rear in hilux diifs,in my zuk.89inch wheelbase , 35's,turns like a 747 in a desert. I got around this by doing low 2 conversion in transfer case,just put extra gate in shifter shaft,turns on a dime and the rear detoit sqares me up when climbing hills. Pretty much the same as welding front diff. Can be done to hilux by extending shifter shaft and adding gate,very fiddly but can be done also, cheers paul.

If you weld front & rear, then you just leave one front hub unlocked (and run around in 3WD) until it gets really difficult....works fine.

Pros out way the cons

I smashed a CV when the the front was unlocked.

No CV problems with the welded diff to date`.Mostly because I no longer need to drive like a prick with ears.

Yes the steering is a bit heaver but

Welded diff cost Next to nill you get over it.

Arb cost

if you are happy to spend money and time replacing diffs and axles why don't you just do it properly and get a locker(which will end up being cheaper and easier). plus you wont piss your mates of when they have to drag you around all day because you've blown a diff.

What is the cheapest way but.... can I buy an lsd and put in the front?.. will that help when I have a wheel in the air ?.. How much are lockers etc.. cheapos arb etc..

If I blow a front axle I can drive mostly in 2wd.. might need a few tugs here and there but it wouldn't happent hat often surely?

p.s. How can i tell if I have an lsd in the rear or not ?

You could prolly get an auto-locker for $500-$600 i think, which in some people's opinion are worse than a welded diff when it comes to durability.

Air locker prolly around $1400

2 find out if you have an LSD, jack up the rear so both wheels r off the ground, and spin one wheel. If they both turn the same way u have LSD. If they spin in opposite directions, you dont.

Rocky I thought lsd would only work when pressure was applied?....like with pressure the clutches engage and lock it up ?... I think they spin opposite anyway.. so I assume not lsd. That is gay. I could just weld front and rear.. like the old days with my rotors

just buy a locker

jimbo jones wrote:just buy a locker

x2

Turbz wrote:Rocky I thought lsd would only work when pressure was applied?....like with pressure the clutches engage and lock it up ?... I think they spin opposite anyway.. so I assume not lsd. That is .. I could just weld front and rear.. like the old days with my rotors

LSD, stands for limited slip diff. So thats what they do, they limit the ability for the wheels to spin at different speeds. They do not stop it though. A locker is just that, it LOCKS the wheels together. Limited slip diffs are generally average at best, they are nothing compared to a locker. Different types of LSD's work with different methods, and this can vary how they engage.


Layto....

on a budget - weld away!

good thing about welded front diffs is it saves you lots of money............................................ so that you can affort to replace parts all the time and buy beers for ya matesso they will continue to lock and unlock your hubs every 5 mins

do it right or dont do it is all i say

with a welded rear n an open front you will drive more than enough things to keep you busy untill you can afford a front locker

I say weld.

Big deal you may have to back and fill evry now and then to compensate for the larger turning circle.

Cheap as chips.

Works.

If its the front it doesnt affect anything while you are unlocked onroad.

I have had welded front and rear in my buggy since day one. Granted it hasn't been driven a lot, but I haven't done a diff centre or a CV (39.5" IROKs on Hilux diffs).

Weld away

N*A*M wrote:on a budget - weld away!

X2

Who is really going to leave a hub unlocked and get out to put it in when you need it?? Also it will pull to one side. in 3 wheel drive as well as strain the cv.
A welded diff on a greasy track and you will go off into the scrub, even worse when going down a steep gnarly hill with tight hairpins, right get out and unlock a hub, back up to release pressure, complete turn, stop, put hub back in!!!


Save your pennies.

Bazzle

welded front diff =broken cv/axle
air locker (LOCKED IN) = same as welded diff

= when you snap an axle or cv is becuase its under load big time to me would not make a diffrence weather is locked via welding rods or with compressed air if shes going to snap shes going to snap

if you cant afford air lockers just weld it dont waste your time with lsd

your more prone to snap axles and cvs with a lsd compaired to air locker of cig locker


getting a locker is easyer said then done i would rather a air locker but some people just cant afford to do it not everyone on outers has millions to spend

air locker =$1150 for gq front
compressor = dunno
install = dunno

work out how much a diff is from the wreckers i think you find its cheap to but 2 complete diffs disc to disc then an air locker

and remember you'll still snap axles and cvs with a locker


thats my 40cents to tell someone who cares

cheers justin

welded front diff =broken cv/axle
air locker (LOCKED IN) = same as welded diff

not when you have to unlock a hub to get around. i've had both and welded was a pain in the arse.

can you weld it with the gears in there,

bucketofbolts wrote:can you weld it with the gears in there,

Yep. Take the cover plate of n weld up the planetary gears. I actually don't weld the planetaries to the shaft, but weld them to each other with enuf weld to bind the gears. Then should the actual weld that fixes the gears together break, it still won't turn, because the weld material actually won't allow them to. Note that all diffs may not have a cover plate, so these ones must be taken out of the housing for welding.

If you dont want to steer the car weld the diff,I did it years ago and i hated it

Weld it. as you said you replacements are cheap so if ya dont like it sell it and get another

Drover_Pete wrote:If you weld front & rear, then you just leave one front hub unlocked (and run around in 3WD) until it gets really difficult....works fine.

seen many trucks do this and never had a problem!

it's the side gears (circled white) that i welded up last time, i welded in between two teeth, and opposite on both side gears, or is it the yellow circled section,

is that how you guys did it,

bazzle wrote:Who is really going to leave a hub unlocked and get out to put it in when you need it?? Also it will pull to one side. in 3 wheel drive as well as strain the cv.
A welded diff on a greasy track and you will go off into the scrub, even worse when going down a steep gnarly hill with tight hairpins, right get out and unlock a hub, back up to release pressure, complete turn, stop, put hub back in!!!


Save your pennies.

Bazzle

There is no real difference between a welded (or locked) front diff with one hub locked in and an unlocked open diff. Either way only one wheel is going to be driven.

bucketofbolts wrote:

it's the side gears (circled white) that i welded up last time, i welded in between two teeth, and opposite on both side gears, or is it the yellow circled section,

is that how you guys did it,

Use to weld the diff on old speedway cars all the time (rules said rear diff to be locked). Did the same on a Hilux recently. We cut a plate from 2mm sheet, dropped it into the diff with each corner sitting in the junction of the spider gears and welded away. Did both sides and have no problems (execpt for the cherping in carparks - sound like someone flying around the corners )

my old hilux had a welded rear centre and it made a huge difference compared to opens
my new one has a welded rear and an air locker front but my tip to you would be to weld one of your centres and then swap it front to back and see what u prefer. If yoru only doin budget wheelin then i would dare say a rear locker would get you anywhere u want to drive with in reason

Nev62 wrote:
There is no real difference between a welded (or locked) front diff with one hub locked in and an unlocked open diff. Either way only one wheel is going to be driven.

There is a MASSIVE difference, as you have DIRECT drive to 1 wheel only with no differential action, remember a mate welded a diff in an EF falcon, didn't do it like it told him one of the side gears broke and was direct to drivers side, was piss funny, drive beside someone on the highway at 100 clicks, nail it and instant wheel spin on the one wheel

HUGE DIFFERENCE

cloughy wrote:

Nev62 wrote:
There is no real difference between a welded (or locked) front diff with one hub locked in and an unlocked open diff. Either way only one wheel is going to be driven.

There is a MASSIVE difference, as you have DIRECT drive to 1 wheel only with no differential action, remember a mate welded a diff in an EF falcon, didn't do it like it told him one of the side gears broke and was direct to drivers side, was piss funny, drive beside someone on the highway at 100 clicks, nail it and instant wheel spin on the one wheel

HUGE DIFFERENCE

That is what I was saying, with one front hub locked and the other unlock a welded diff will only give you drive to one wheel, you must have missed the the "one hub locked in"

Nev62 wrote:
There is no real difference between a welded (or locked) front diff with one hub locked in and an unlocked open diff.

cloughy wrote:

Nev62 wrote:
There is no real difference between a welded (or locked) front diff with one hub locked in and an unlocked open diff. Either way only one wheel is going to be driven.

There is a MASSIVE difference, as you have DIRECT drive to 1 wheel only with no differential action, remember a mate welded a diff in an EF falcon, didn't do it like it told him one of the side gears broke and was direct to drivers side, was piss funny, drive beside someone on the highway at 100 clicks, nail it and instant wheel spin on the one wheel

HUGE DIFFERENCE

That is what I was saying, with one front hub locked and the other unlock a welded diff will only give you drive to one wheel, you must have missed the "one hub locked in"

Nev62 wrote:
There is no real difference between a welded (or locked) front diff with one hub locked in and an unlocked open diff.