Outer Limits 4x4 Board

currently have hj60 with 370k/kms dont know wether to rebuild/reco old donk (2h) or go the 12h-t path , any ideas, as in costs or dramas relating to 12h-t ,wiring etc or just reco the old girl and go after market turbo, any imput would be appreciated.shayne

see what sort of price you're looking at for an imported 12H-T, it's a far better motor that the 2H - direct injection, piston skirt lubrication/cooling, big fat pulletproof pistons, and rebuilding a 2H isn't cheap. I'd estimate between 2 and 4k to rebuild the 2H depending on how much you do yourself, plus anwehere from $1k to $3k to turboing, so if you can land a 12H-T for $4-5k I reckon you're ahead. plus you have a 2H to sell which will recover a bit of the cost.

wiring would be pretty similar to the 2H though I'm not sure if the 12H-T uses a glow screen or plugs like the 2H. in any case the direct injected 12H-T would probably start without any glow except on really cold (subzero) days.

cheers

Brian

V8 time

yeah gutsy, that's obviously the most economically viable option!

dumbdunce, had a rough quote to reco 2h at 3ish, have a fair bit of petrol knowledge but not much diesel looking at the manual it doesnt look all that much harder. the differance between 2h and 12h-t glow is plugs for the 2h and a heater in the throttle body for the other . the motor you are talking about ,is that a import or sourced over here?

12h-t was available locally in turbo 60/62 series, but they are a bit rare and are likely to have high km - they are also available imported from japan, you'd have to ring around engine importers and see what they're asking for one - ie the motor I'm talking about is the 12H-T and is more or less identical local or imported although it's possible a jap spec one might be 24V, use your 2H 12V starter and EDIC, might have to shell out for a 12V glow screen though.

if you can get a good one for under $5k you're ahead of rebuilding the 2H then turboing, plus you get better efficiency and torque from direct injection.

cheers

Brian

thanks for the info it,ll give me something to think about the old girl isnt dead yet i just think its time for an upgrade in the power departmemt perhaps a v8 petrol conversion might be the go ,will look into adapter/motor costs probably go 307-327 350 chev

it will wind up more expensive to do the V8 in the end after all the dicking around, you'll curse the fuel consumption and if you drive off road carbed V8's suck on any kind of angle - if you go EFI you spend more and there's fun and games in the wiring, can get good all-angle performance with LPG but again more $$$

of course V8 performance is a lot of fun and if you don't care about fuel costs and are prepared to put the time in to get all the bugs out then that's the way to go

sounds like a pain in the rear quarter panel the more i think about it the more i like the 12h-t surely it can be that hard to swap from one to the other. no dramas with mounts, same g/box etc just a bit of fiddling around with the pre heat and exhaust and possibly a bit of wiring the turbo will make a heap of differance, the old girls not exactly slow but shes no ferrari either

intercool, boost up, open up the exhaust on the 12H-T to 13psi and you've got around 400Nm from a 12H-T, enough to smoke it up at the lights :)

yeeha now were talking good excuse to chuck some taller rubber under her when i wear the old ones out

while your upgrading, go a 1HZ and whack on a turbo.

trying to keep this on the cheap. with the 4.2 wont i need a different g/box radiator shafts crossmember etc etc

too hard!

to go 1HZ you have to change the bellhousing and at least the transmission input shaft, probably easier/cheaper to get a 1HZ from a HZJ75 with H55F gearbox and split transfer, but the bellhousing/input shaft is longer than on a 60 series so you have to fiddle engine mounts/floor holes/boots, it's a whole world or hurt for an engine that is more expensive and has less power potential. the 12H-T has no pussy timing belt to change every 100,000km, is direct injected, has a go-forever inline fuel pump, sure it's oldschool pushrod low tech but for an easy power upgrad in a 60 series it's pretty hard to go past.


so if you're going to go through the bellhousing/ complete transmission disassembly/reassembly (necessary to replace input shaft) drama to get a 1HZ in there then spend the extra and get a 1HD-T or 1HD-FT for less than a 1HZ + aftermarket turbo would cost!


cheers

Brian

hmmm well if you put it that way just go a 6.5L V8 diesel

definately sounds like a lot of trouble for not much return 12ht reco 3 inch out the back and boost her up sounds like the go might be low tech but you know what they say k.i.s.s any, thanks for the help brian

shayne

Anyone ever replaced a petrol motor in a 60series with a deisel?

I'm really getting sick of the economy I get with the 2F in my cruiser, even though it's on gas (I hear theres a big LPG price increase on it's way soon).

I'd like to know what mods need to be done eg. are engine/trans mounts different, how difficult is the rewiring etc.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Tom.

2H or 12H-T bolt straight in, bellhousing, clutch, mounts are the same 2F/2H/12H-T. bit of plumbing for inlet air etc but nothing hard.

wiring is fairly simple. need the EDIC and Glow 'computers' and wiring but it's baby stuff compared to an EFI conversion. you can even get away without the glow 'computer' and just set up a pushbutton system, and the EDIC is only a few wires.


cheers

Brian

2H or 12H-T bolt straight in, bellhousing, clutch, mounts are the same 2F/2H/12H-T. bit of plumbing for inlet air etc but nothing hard.

does this mean a 12h-t will bolt stright into my 75 fj40? I was under the impersion that the 2f engine mounts were difrent to the 12H-T

yes I do realize this is a very old topic

I am currently running a 2h with an aftermarket turbo (denco kit with schwitzer turbo). I am running approx 8psi. Power increase is very substantial, a heap better than the stock 2h. Makes freeway driving a lot easier. Torque characteristics are pretty good too.

Hasn't increased my oil consumption and has improved fuel economy around town, a little bit thirstier up the highway though, but i would say thats because you will drive faster cause you can. As Brian said, if you got the money to spend, get a 12h-t, cause they have piston skirt cooling and the ability to run more boost without cooking things. Intercooling would be nice, but it would have to be custom which would mean more $$$. I couldn't find an "off the shelf" intercooler for the 60.

Anyhow, whether you go 2h aftermarket turbo or a 12h-t it all means $$$, but turbo is definately the way to go.

Brian, could I replace my 2h pistons with 12h-t pistons, in order to run more boost, providing you intercool my 60 for me?

Just a thought.....

ive been thinking about this topic aswell.

recently baught a hj60 and the old 2h isnt dead but on its way. it doesnt even blow any smoke nor chew any oil. it does have a head leak however.

so an imported or locally rebuilt 12H-T would appear to be a goer. sounds like an easy swap too.

an intercooler shouldnt be too hard to plumb, just mounting it so you dont cook your radiator would be the problem.

as for rebuilding a 2H stronger, sure its possible, probably be even stronger than a 12HT in the long run, but youd still need to source manifolds etc, or an aftermarket kit which i cannot find for less than $3.5k

carts wrote:Brian, could I replace my 2h pistons with 12h-t pistons, in order to run more boost, providing you intercool my 60 for me?

Just a thought.....

in a word... no. the DI 12H-T has the combustion chamber in the piston, the 2H has precombustion chambers in the head. if you put 12H-T pistons in a 2H the compression would go down to about 11:1 and it probably wouldn't run.

the head, rods, pistons are all different.

Shadow wrote:ive been thinking about this topic aswell.


as for rebuilding a 2H stronger, sure its possible, probably be even stronger than a 12HT in the long run, but youd still need to source manifolds etc, or an aftermarket kit which i cannot find for less than $3.5k

due to the inherent characteristics of indirect you can't boost them up heaps - essentially comes down to pumping inefficiency through the precombustion chamber orifice - as the boost goes up you have to stuff more and more air through a tiny hole (size of your little finger nail), and that generates a lot of heat, over about 9 - 10psi the power gain starts to drop off and heat problems start to get nasty. the direct injected motors don't have this problem and an internally standard 12H-T will stand up to 14psi boost, and with the inherent higher efficiency of direct injected motors they can make quite a lot of power reliably.

ok so who knows some good engine importers

preferably qld.

Try this crowd ...... http://www.japparts.com.au/

banjodog wrote:Try this crowd ...... http://www.japparts.com.au/

they want $7800 for a late model 12HT with low k's

i find that interesting considering you can get a whole hj61 with low k's for about 13k on road , bout 8k in japan for purchase, 2k for shipping, rest for compliance stamp duty etc.

can get an exchange rebuilt 2H for $3150

or can get your own motor rebuilt for $3k - $4k depending on whats fubared.

i think $7800 is way overpriced for a 12HT, anyone inclined to disagree with me?

it's a little overpriced, but not heaps. consider if you spruce up your 2H for $3500 and then turbo it for another $3000, you've still got a weak, indirect injected motor with severly limited potential, so around $6500 - $7000 would be a fair starting point for a 12H-T.

if your 2H is still a decent runner you can sell it for $1500 give or take some.

it is a lot of $ for an old school motor

For the amount of money you're quoting - ever considered the V8 petrol or diesel conversion?

it's hard to do a V8 conversion much cheaper than those sorts of prices, and the list of potential problems is much longer.

everyone has a story about the $1500 V8 conversion their mate's dad's cousin's uncle's former flatmate did in one weekend and how they sold the old motor for $2000, but it usually doesn't work that way. drive in - drive out V8 conversions with a near new/reconditioned motor are near $10k, and you only save $2k - $3k if you do it all yourself and already have all the tools and skillz required - cutting, welding, wrenching, electrical, etc etc, then you need to get it inspected by an engineer, and who knows what the engineer might demand of you before he signs off on it. not to mention the chev V8 diesels are very low tech, unreliable and thirsty beasts, and the 12H-T can be made to make as much torque and power more reliably than a 6.2, and be in the same ballpark as the 6.5 turbo.

swapping in a 12H-T for a 2H is more or less a bolt in swap, all the mounts, hoses etc line up and there's not much to in except for hoisting out the old motor and dropping in the new. can be easily done in a day and there's unlikely to be any nasty surprises (read the story of Screwy Screwball's recent V8 conversion).


**NOMEX ON**


cheers

Brian