Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi there,
I have not found a specific topic on this problem.

Can anyone provide their solution/experience to removing the surface corrosion on wires, though the whole bundle, so that they can be cleanly soldered.

I have managed to sand off much of the normal copper green surface corrosion and get some partial success but not ideal. The corrosion had migrated up the wire an unknown distance. The wire was performing OK - its just getting a good soldered connection is my issue.

I have done a little research and heard of a product called "Tinners Fluid" which is an acid to dip the wires in. I cant find a source for this product.

Does anyone have a better method than sanding the wires to get solder to hold?

thanks.

Don't have an answer for you but wouldn't it be more time and dollar economical to just buy some new soldering wire? (Serious question, not shit stirring)

In this case, and others, the wire itself is conducting OK, its just cleaning the surface corrosion on the wire strands so that solder will flow and bond correctly. In many cases the wires are inside rails and compartments which would make replacing the whole length difficult.

I imagine much of the surface corrosion of the wire strands is normal on copper and aluminium but this corrosion prevents a good solder joint. I am fixing up some connections on the 4WD and boat and many of the wires are difficult to solder and sanding them back does not always work.

I am still hunting for a product on the net to help - seen references like:
* soaking the wire in coca-cola
* mixing upa solution of vinegar and salt to clean
* hydrochloric acid (sounds dangerous)

grazza wrote:In this case, and others, the wire itself is conducting OK, its just cleaning the surface corrosion on the wire strands so that solder will flow and bond correctly. In many cases the wires are inside rails and compartments which would make replacing the whole length difficult.

I imagine much of the surface corrosion of the wire strands is normal on copper and aluminium but this corrosion prevents a good solder joint. I am fixing up some connections on the 4WD and boat and many of the wires are difficult to solder and sanding them back does not always work.

I am still hunting for a product on the net to help - seen references like:
* soaking the wire in coca-cola
* mixing upa solution of vinegar and salt to clean
* hydrochloric acid (sounds dangerous)

I use Bakers soldering fluid or flux, should be able to find it at dickie smiths. Just dip the wire into this stuff and clean it off then the solder should stick striaght to it depending on how bad it is. But yea with corrision on the wires it would be best to spend the time to replace them. The wire may test out ok and conduct but when a load is placed on it for a longer period of time the resistance of the wire could increase causing a burnout somewhere.
Cheers Dan

OK, sorry. Just re-read your original post, I thought you meant cleaning the soldering wire itself, not the actual wires to be soldered.

Carry on, nothing to see here.

JrZook wrote:I use Bakers soldering fluid or flux, should be able to find it at dickie smiths.

Sounds good - I have read that this stuff should not be used on electrical connections but if its rubbed off then I guess it would be OK. Will have a look (Dick Smith dont have it anymore)

Hi Grazza, in your case Bakers is the way to go BUT while you are buying the Bakers, also pick up can of Flux Remover.

The problem with Bakers is that it is active at room temperature so if left on the cable, even after soldering, it will corrode the wire, so clean the Bakers off with the Flux Remover.

Also, when soldering automotive wire, always use Resin Core solder, the resin requires a fair bit of heat before it becomes active. So if any resin is left on the solder or wire, it will not pose any problems.

Cheers.

I've had real good results using lemon juice.

u could always use acid core solder
will allow solder to stick to anything

drivesafe wrote:Hi Grazza, in your case Bakers is the way to go BUT while you are buying the Bakers, also pick up can of Flux Remover.

The problem with Bakers is that it is active at room temperature so if left on the cable, even after soldering, it will corrode the wire, so clean the Bakers off with the Flux Remover.

Also, when soldering automotive wire, always use Resin Core solder, the resin requires a fair bit of heat before it becomes active. So if any resin is left on the solder or wire, it will not pose any problems.

Cheers.

If it`s the same as we use then it is ROSIN cored solder

Alex

lexi wrote:

drivesafe wrote:Hi Grazza, in your case Bakers is the way to go BUT while you are buying the Bakers, also pick up can of Flux Remover.

The problem with Bakers is that it is active at room temperature so if left on the cable, even after soldering, it will corrode the wire, so clean the Bakers off with the Flux Remover.

Also, when soldering automotive wire, always use Resin Core solder, the resin requires a fair bit of heat before it becomes active. So if any resin is left on the solder or wire, it will not pose any problems.

Cheers.

If it`s the same as we use then it is ROSIN cored solder

Alex

And some Americans use rosin core sodder, and their aircraft are made of aluminum.

In Australia, it is called "RESIN" core. But I've never heard of acid core...

Suggestions from left field to source the acid cleaner in small quantities....

Try an arts and craft shop that specialise in silver soldering, or leadlighters/glazer.

i use acid core solder every day all day very good stuff makes solder penertrate any thing
just head down to your local auto elec and grab a roll and all your problems solved

i cut the wire back until it is no longer corroded, and go from there. sometimes would replace whole wire to

Acid core solder is what we use on Under water robots (ROV's). All the salt etc makes it hard. Acid core solder is available from Blackwoods. I wouldn't leave home without a roll!!

Well I’m with Scott, never heard of acid solder before.

Learn something new everyday.

Cheers

OK, this one was a bit of a curiosity so I did a Google.

Acid Flux Solder is used in a few industries and is apparently very good when soldering aluminium.

The one thing that keeps cropping up, is warnings that Acid Flux Solder and Acid Core Solder is NOT suitable of electrical work.

Cheers

This posting was to the wrong forum

Hi Nev62, not sure what your post is about.

Riston developer and stripper are both used in small run production of printed circuit boards.

I used these products for about 20 years till other, easier to use products came on the market.

Cheers.

I realise this was originally posted a month or so ago but to be honest I think you will find your problem is not enough heat.

Im a sparky and do a fair bit of solderng and I find even the dirtiest of copper is easily soldered with the correct ammount of heat.

If you cant get solder to melt onto copper cable then either its not copper or you just havent applied enough heat.

Top Cat wrote: Im a sparky and do a fair bit of solderng and I find even the dirtiest of copper is easily soldered with the correct ammount of heat.

I'd disagree with this statement.
To get a "heat bridge", the wire must be clean to enable it flow throughout the cable strands.
Solder will not stick to oxidised copper.
I know some people who perform "Blob Soldering", but it does not form a complete conductive circuit.

Hi Ralf, Top Cat’s post is actually right on the money.

The reason flux is used when soldering is to clean the surface which includes deoxidising it and the hotter you can get the copper the better the flux deoxidises the copper’s surface.

You can get to a point where there is too much heat but that’s not too common a problem, it’s usually not enough heat that causes problems.

Cheers.

I used Resin cored solder on my new dual battery setup. It does require a lot of heat but pruduced some very solid joints. I am not very experienced when it comes to soldering but I used this stuff to solder on battery terminals ring fittings on and I crimped them as well. But I think they would have lasted well without crimping. A joint of this size though seem to like a days rest before pressure was put on it. If fresh it made wore movement noises.

When doing dual battery installs in boats, we use liquid flux, regular resin based solder, and an oxy to heat things up enough to get a thorough solder connection...

once soldered, we heat shrink the lot, leaving a tag only...

never had any come back...

luxtce wrote:I used this stuff to solder on battery terminals ring fittings on and I crimped them as well.

Hi luxtce, usually either soldering or crimping by themselves, will give you a good secure connection but if you want to do both, you must crimp first then solder.

The reason for this is that if you solder first and then crimp, two problem can arise.

Crimping after soldering can actually break the solder joint but more importantly, if you crimp over soldered wire and the joint gets hot, the wire can actually pullout of the terminal as the solder breaks down.

Crimping first means the joint has the terminal securely fixed to the wire and soldering after crimping can give you improved conductivity.

Cheers

If the wire you're trying to solder is reasonably thick, like baterry cable or even 6 square mm (50 amp), try buffing on the wire brush attachment of a bench grinder. This will take all of 20 seconds and the wire brush penetrates completety into the centre strands. You end up with nice clean copper. No good for hook up wire of course, as trying to do that tends to remove more of the skin from your fingers than corrosion from the wire.
Ric

drivesafe wrote:

luxtce wrote:I used this stuff to solder on battery terminals ring fittings on and I crimped them as well.

Hi luxtce, usually either soldering or crimping by themselves, will give you a good secure connection but if you want to do both, you must crimp first then solder.

The reason for this is that if you solder first and then crimp, two problem can arise.

Crimping after soldering can actually break the solder joint but more importantly, if you crimp over soldered wire and the joint gets hot, the wire can actually pullout of the terminal as the solder breaks down.

Crimping first means the joint has the terminal securely fixed to the wire and soldering after crimping can give you improved conductivity.

Cheers

Yep thanks Mate. I wasn't sure when I first did them so the first cable I did the wrong way around, soldered than crimped but I found out this was wrong and did the last cable the other way around.

I should have wrote it in the correct order though, so good call.

To fix it I reheated the solder with an oxy and resoldered the join.

Thanks for clearing it up and giving agood explanation though as I never really knew the reason, was just told to do it the other way around on the second cable.