Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey Guys,

I've heard that the Supra W55 5 speed, bolts to hilux transfer,
as well as 5Ms, 7Ms and a few others. Can it be converted to run
behind a V8? if so how? Marks don't seem to do an adaptor for them??
And are they strong enough to hold a V8? Anyone tried it?

How does this box compare to a Marks Adapters Dyna 4WD box for
hilux? Is it true these boxes use the same output shaft as the hilux?
If so, wouldn't this make it the same strength as the lux theoretically?
Also, if this is a hybrid between the Dyna and Hilux box, if you break it,
whos gonna be able to fix it? Marks and who else??

Basically, ARE these boxes worth the money over a Supra box?
I've heard the supra 5 speeds are bulletproof. AND I have heard of
people saying the marks box ain't all its cracked up to be.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks guys,
Bart

Also, I just heard that Marks removes the dyna output shaft,
and replaces it with a hilux one to facilitate bolting to the transfer??
Is this true? Wouldn't that make it just as strong as a hilux
output shaft??? Can anyone clarify this for me?

The Supra doesn't use the W55, thats the Celica. The Supra uses either the W58 or W57. The Supra or Celica box does not bolt upto the lux transfer case. The bellhousing from these gearboxes fits the W56 or G52 lux box allowing you to use a 1G or M series engine.

You can get adapters to fit the W and G series box onto some V8's

Have a search round here and you should get some results

Not sure on the Dyna option tho ?

So you can only use the bellhousing from the supra gearbox
to fit a G or M series motor to the W56 or G52 lux box??
How reliable is this setup?
Wouldn't the hilux box shite itself under the load of double the HP??

I was hoping I could use the supra gear-box, but I guess not
if it won't bolt to the transfer. Is there any way it can be modified
or anything like that?

Suprasurf, what box do you run in the surf?

Bart

fest your eyes on my conversion
supra box but not da $1500 doller one $400 one wit transfer conversion kit and dellows v8 kit
sorry bout pic quality

Castlemaine Rodshop in Vic do a HEAP of bellhousings, clutches, etc, for fitment to either w55/57/58 and r150/154

If I was going to fit a heavy duty box to my runner it would be a r-series box. All the W-series boxes are about the same size and probably the same strength as the Hilux w56.

Why spend all that money to get the same series box you have in the hilux. The r-series and dyna boxes are much bigger and stronger then the w-series boxes. I think you will find that if the w-series boxes did come behind supras they were non-turbo and would (In my opinion) not be any stonger then the your current w56 box.

Chris.

im on my 2nd stock 4 speed toyo box (first gen) behind a worked 308

first 4 speed lasted 5 months driven hard.
ive now had the 2nd box for a year & half but im babying it until i save up for a Dyna box.

IMO the dyna box is expensive but the only box that will stand up to punishment of a V8 (or high horsepower engine).

my mate has a 84 hilux and has swapped out 3 V8's (253, stroked 388 and now a 350 chev) and the dyna box has handled them no problems up to date. i wouldnt say its unbrakeable but it is very strong.


This is copied from www.marks4wd.com :

Marks 4WD Adaptors manufacture a heavy-duty 5-speed manual transmission to overcome the strength problems associated with the Hilux/4-Runner 4 and 5-speed gearboxes when fitted with larger engines.

The heavy duty 5-speed, (originally a Toyota Dyna truck gearbox) when fitted with the new adaptor, gearbox top, selectors and main output shaft etc will directly replace the Hilux/4-Runner 5-speed gearbox.

Marks 4WD Adaptors fully dismantled the gearbox and recondition it using all new bearings, seals etc. A new rear housing is fitted to the gearbox so that the vehicle’s original transfer case can be retained. The main output shaft in the gearbox is replaced with one that allows the Hilux/4-Runner coupling sleeve to mate it to the transfer case.

Marks 4WD Adaptors manufacture a special gear lever housing that has been designed to accept the standard Hilux/4-Runner 4-speed diesel and 5-speed diesel or petrol gear lever. The housing also allows the gear lever to emerge through the same hole in the transmission tunnel.

The heavy-duty 5-speed gearbox features a low 1st gear, which is ideal for rock crawling and general four wheel driving.

The gearbox has the following ratios: 1st 5.15:1 2nd 2.87:1 3rd 1.50:1 4th 1:1 and 5th 0.83:1 or 17% overdrive.

The gearbox can be fitted to various engines including Toyota Hilux/4-Runner 4 cylinder petrol and diesel, Holden V6, V8, Chevy V6, V8, Oldsmobile V6, V8 and Buick V6, V8 engines.

Look at john Douglas's site he put a r-series (R154) box behind a HO 5.0lt in his 4runner

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jonhel5/

5 Speed Manual Conversion
http://members.iinet.net.au/~ozrunner/ProjectsIndex.html


Chris

OK then,

Can you just clarify for me:-
Hilux - W56 or G52
Supra (5M & 7M) - W58 and W57 (which gearbox was behind the turbo?)
Supra (1JZ & 2JZ) - R154
Dyna - ????

How can you tell which was used behind a turbo or non-turbo?
Or did they use the same gearboxes for each model variant??

Thanks heaps guys,
Bart

Toyo truck & cbr,

W56 = Hilux
W57 = non turbo GA70 Supras (1GGE) and RA60 Celicas (22RE)
W58 = GA70 turbo supras (1GGTE 210hp), MA70 non turbo (7MGE 190hp), JZA80 Supras (2JZGE 230hp)
R154 = MA71 Supra turbo (7MGTE 235hp), JZA70 Supra turbo (1JZGTE 280hp)
V160 (getrag 6 speed) = JZA80 Supra turbo (2JZGTE 320hp)

I personnaly have punished both W57 and W58 boxes (currently 370hp through the W58) and they both feel like new. I have seen 13B turbo (450+hp at wheels) with a W58 punished, last 32000km (went thru 3 motors before the box finally broke, 2nd and 3rd syncro were rooted, NO gear damage!). W57 and W58 have VERY different internals than the W56, hence the strentgh of them.....

Phill

slowhilux wrote:Toyo truck & cbr,

W56 = Hilux
W57 = non turbo GA70 Supras (1GGE) and RA60 Celicas (22RE)
W58 = GA70 turbo supras (1GGTE 210hp), MA70 non turbo (7MGE 190hp), JZA80 Supras (2JZGE 230hp)
R154 = MA71 Supra turbo (7MGTE 235hp), JZA70 Supra turbo (1JZGTE 280hp)
V160 (getrag 6 speed) = JZA80 Supra turbo (2JZGTE 320hp)

I personnaly have punished both W57 and W58 boxes (currently 370hp through the W58) and they both feel like new. I have seen 13B turbo (450+hp at wheels) with a W58 punished, last 32000km (went thru 3 motors before the box finally broke, 2nd and 3rd syncro were rooted, NO gear damage!). W57 and W58 have VERY different internals than the W56, hence the strentgh of them.....

Phill

Good to know. Got any pics of the differences???

But what sort of torque figures do these motors pull. I would think it is the torque that kill's a box rather then HP. Therefore for a V8 in a 4x4 with low gearing, I still think a r-series or dyna box would be the best option.

BTW I have been running a W56 in my runner for 2 years with a 5.0lt V8. BUT I do not punish it hard on the street. When this box goes I will be looking into a r-series or dyna box. I would try to get a
R151F out of 1986-1987 EFI Turbo (not sold here in OZ) - stong and has a lower first gear 4.31 as apposed to a R150f (v6 toyota) 3.83 and R154 (Supra) 3.25. Also the R151F will bolt to a gear drive t/case (but you need a 23-spline input gear). The other boxes need an adaptor to do this.

Chris

1GGTE has 290nm std
7MGE has 278nm std
7MGTE has 330nm std
1JZGTE has 368nm std
2JZGE has 310nm std
2JZGTE has 420nm std or 451nm later model with VVTi

My 1ggte has 418nm @ 3900rpm (measured on an engine dyno), and the W58 has survived this well. Dont discount the W57/58, they are very strong, BUT, if you are looking at dual cases, diff gears, torque (of a V8 in the lower rpm range), then one of the R15* boxes will be the go. These are almost 3 times the price of a W57/58 tho.
I dont have any pics of the differences, but put a W57/58 and R154 side by side, and you know which one is which. Go to www.toymods.org.au or www.performanceforums.com.au, and do a search. I think the sizes have been covered there before a number of times.

Phill.

PS, i also know of a certain twin turbo (now single, garrett GT4245) Lexus v8 (1UZ) in a TA22 celica that has ALWAYS run a W58 without any problems. Made 265rwkw at 11psi (twin turbo form), and the trctive effort (torque) was not measurable, cos the dyno only went to 3800lbs !! (this is NOT ft/lbs, as tractive effort on a chassis dyno only measures the turning force)

This is great info guys! Thanks!

Chris,
when you say 23 spline input gear, how can I tell?
what input gears come with which year model?

How much are the input gear adaptors?
Who makes these?

Also, what series and number are the Dyna Box?

Cheers,
Bart

Toyo Truck wrote:This is great info guys! Thanks!

Chris,
when you say 23 spline input gear, how can I tell?
what input gears come with which year model?

How much are the input gear adaptors?
Who makes these?

Also, what series and number are the Dyna Box?

Cheers,
Bart

We never got a 23 spline input gear in OZ. It only came in a t/case behind a R151F out of 1986-1987 EFI Turbo. You can convert a standard 21-spine t/case to 23 by buying a input gear from marlin. Have a look at this site he has adapters to mate v6 gear boxes (r150) to gear driven t/cases.

If you are going down the dyna route, you have to buy it from marks. This is because they will not sell the adapters separatly (so I have been told). 3 adaptors are required - bellhousing, t/case and one for the shifters.

Chris.[/url]

how do landcruiser box's fair up to dynas? stronger or bout the same?

383FJ45 wrote:how do landcruiser box's fair up to dynas? stronger or bout the same?

the dyna box is a truck gearbox and much stronger than a landy box!!!!!

can ya run a landcruiser t/case? coz i hate those chain driven ideas

landcruiser boxes are strong tho. a mate used to have a 383 but now has a 454 in his 75 series and hes a nutbag, all hes broken is 1 axle, and completely stuffed his body.

Toyo Truck wrote:This is great info guys! Thanks!

Chris,
when you say 23 spline input gear, how can I tell?
what input gears come with which year model?

How much are the input gear adaptors?
Who makes these?

Also, what series and number are the Dyna Box?

Cheers,
Bart

Have a look at this PDF from advanced adapters it has info about t/cases for hiluxes in the US.

http://www.advanceadapters.com/acrobat/toytcs.pdf

Chris

Cheers Chris,
I will check that link out now,

Landy boxes may not compare to dyna,
but how do they compare to a Supra W or R series?
What series are Landy boxes.
Surely the landy transfer would be stronger than
the hilux one?


Bart

Just out of intrest a 7mgte R154 and bellhousing will set u back a tad over $500, while a 1JZGTE R154 and bellhousing will set u back around $1500. The difference in cost is the bellhousing, 7m's have a different pattern to 1JZ's. 5 speed 1JZ supra and soarer conversions are very popular making these bellhousing's wanted and expensive. Dellow make a range of bellhousings to suit R series boxes. R154 has 190mm input shaft, R151&R150 have 160mm input shaft, meaning these boxes require different length bellhousings.

Toyo Truck wrote:Cheers Chris,
I will check that link out now,

Landy boxes may not compare to dyna,
but how do they compare to a Supra W or R series?
What series are Landy boxes.
Surely the landy transfer would be stronger than
the hilux one?


Bart

Don't know, but wiht hilux t/cases you have gearing options like low t/case gears 3.7, 4.0, 4.8, 5.0 and duals. Don't think these options are available for Landies???

Chris.

cbr wrote:

Toyo Truck wrote:Cheers Chris,
I will check that link out now,

Landy boxes may not compare to dyna,
but how do they compare to a Supra W or R series?
What series are Landy boxes.
Surely the landy transfer would be stronger than
the hilux one?


Bart

Don't know, but wiht hilux t/cases you have gearing options like low t/case gears 3.7, 4.0, 4.8, 5.0 and duals. Don't think these options are available for Landies???

Chris.

your right there, but if your looking for strength you probably have enough torque, so you can get low enough with a landcruiser box from marks adaptors

383FJ45 wrote:

cbr wrote:

Toyo Truck wrote:Cheers Chris,
I will check that link out now,

Landy boxes may not compare to dyna,
but how do they compare to a Supra W or R series?
What series are Landy boxes.
Surely the landy transfer would be stronger than
the hilux one?


Bart

Don't know, but wiht hilux t/cases you have gearing options like low t/case gears 3.7, 4.0, 4.8, 5.0 and duals. Don't think these options are available for Landies???

Chris.

your right there, but if your looking for strength you probably have enough torque, so you can get low enough with a landcruiser box from marks adaptors

I forgot about toybox from marlin which allows you to put the low reduction part of a hilux t/case between a cruiser gearbox and t/case to you can get duals and low gears. But I don't think it is available for all cruiser t/cases.

But don't cruiser t/cases have offset rear outputs on the t/case or is that just older t/cases??

Chris.

yeah mines got offset, but thats alright get a cruiser axle too, full floater

Here's all the info on what we got for the US. The R151F is a beauty
Note the upgrade at the bottom


Transmissions

Pickup and 4Runner Transmissions with 1st gear ratios.
L43 4 speed 79 - 80 3.67
L45 4 speed 81 - 82 3.93
L50 5 speed 81 - 82 3.93


L52 5 speed 83 3.93
G52 & G54 5 speed 84 - 88 (Carb) 3.93
W56 5 speed 85 - 95 (EFI) 3.95 Manual Hub Equipped Vehicles 89 and up Have W56, 89 and up ADD vehicles have G58.
R151F 5 speed 86 - 87 (turbo only) 4.31
G58 5 speed 89 - 95 3.93 ADD Equipped Vehicles
R150F (6 cyl) 5 speed 88+ 3.83

Tranny 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Rev
R151f 4.310 2.740 1.930 1.000 0.830 4.230
W56 3.954 2.141 1.384 1.000 0.850 4.091
G52 3.929 2.333 1.452 1.000 .851 ????
FYI: Marlin offers a R151f gear swap that gives 5.15 first

arent landcruiser box's 4.76 1st gear?

cbr wrote:I would try to get a R151F out of 1986-1987 EFI Turbo (not sold here in OZ) - stong and has a lower first gear 4.31 as apposed to a R150f (v6 toyota) 3.83 and R154 (Supra) 3.25. Also the R151F will bolt to a gear drive t/case (but you need a 23-spline input gear). The other boxes need an adaptor to do this.

Chris

I just bought a 1991 Import SSR-X 2L-TE Surf which, on the vin plate, says its got an R151f gearbox ?? But I know its got a chain driven transfer case ??

Interesting.
Can anyone verify this R151F being in the SSRX 4runners?
Do the R-series have any markings to identify them from each other?
These Surfs are dime a dosen imports in Sydney at least and would
be easy to find.

How does a R151F compare in strength to a R154 Supra box?

How much are the input spline adaptors from Marlin if needed?

Cheers,
Bart