Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hi i went beach driving on the weekend, whilst there i aired down to 18 psi front and 16psi rear. My truck has 33x12.5 and diff locks front and rear, whilst i was there i found it verry hard to drive up alot of dunes, i tried various speeds/gears/revs.... but still struggled

I was there with a factory stock mitsubishi challenger which seemed to get alot further than me (even without lokkers)

Should i air down more/ less or any one got any tips for me coz the only thing i can think of is my diesel don't like to rev far and the challenger is petrol but not sure if it means much?

Never got bogged but nearly didn't get out of a gulley...

Cheers

also is it safe to leave the front air lokker engauged all the time in sand or best to turn on/off..,...

I drive and old 2.8 clunker diesel and have never had probs. Try airing down as low as 10psi you'll be amazed at the difference. Also, what are you reving it too? Might sometimes need to work it harder on the sand

EDIT: And i'm unlocked. Cant see a need for em on sand

hey mate, we go up there all the time, if it hasn't rained for awhile, the sand gets very soft, i have a GQ 4.2 auto and i air down to 12psi and it does it easy,

maybe if you aired down abit more and see what happens, maybe to 12-15 psi front and back, as for the locker, i probarly wouldn't worry about locking it in, as long as you have drive to front and back wheels, that should be enough

turbo or no turbo?
air down till it bags....

did u try drive up soft stuff?

i was there on
oz day and didnt have a prob
was running 18psi on a 3t truck

brad 93hilux wrote: I was there with a factory stock mitsubishi challenger which seemed to get alot further than me (even without lokkers)


Cheers

power rules supreme on the sand.. and the mitsy woulda been a V6.. dont feel bad

Won't having the front locked cause it to dig in when turning?

As said, air down to 12psi or so, even leave your rear locker engaged, but front unlocked.. you won't be lifting a wheel too often on the sand.

And yeh, don't be afraid to rev it Brad... you have to on the sand. F
irst time I went out I didn't want to push the engine too much, but you get stuck if you dont.

Just running off your specs in your sig line, i have an LN130 4Runner with similiar specs, engine and tyre size wise, but with 4.3's. Try 14psi (same front and rear) to start with, i don't have any trouble running that, if getting right into the dunes go down a little bit more. Then just drive some more to get more experience to learn when you need to give it more revs and when you don't need to.

But reality is, i also own a V6 Auto Prado and the 4Runner has nothing on it on the sand, so as said, if the Challenger was a V6, it'll always have the upper edge on you.

crankycruiser wrote:

brad 93hilux wrote: I was there with a factory stock mitsubishi challenger which seemed to get alot further than me (even without lokkers)


Cheers

power rules supreme on the sand.. and the mitsy woulda been a V6.. dont feel bad

not sure i agree there my cousins hundred series petrol is like driving a barge on the sand and that is aired down to 15psi.

How accurate is your gauge?
There should be some noticeable sag in the tyres.
I aired down for Stockton on a club trip, when a fellow club member pointed out that my tyres hadn't even begun to sag (I'd also chosen 18psi) when he put his gauge on them, I was still up in the early 20's.
Took some more out till we could see the tyres actually sag, and finally conquered a dune that we'd all been having trouble with (though in the very light zook, I'd gone further up than any of them had (till the Prado hit it at full noise and beat it with just momentum alone)) but the lower pressure solved it for me. "Full noise" made no difference in the zook, you're still only doing 5km/h anyway

dirtyGQ wrote:

crankycruiser wrote:

brad 93hilux wrote: I was there with a factory stock mitsubishi challenger which seemed to get alot further than me (even without lokkers)


Cheers

power rules supreme on the sand.. and the mitsy woulda been a V6.. dont feel bad

not sure i agree there my cousins hundred series petrol is like driving a barge on the sand and that is aired down to 15psi.

A challanger is alot lighter (about 500Kg or so Kg) than a hundred series and has a gret high revving v6 in it.. Light weight and revvy motor = good on the beach

yeh i have a turbo, i tried all sorts of revs i found 3rd gear low range reving to bout 4000 rpm pob best but at that revs my turbo is hitting 9lb of boost and it heats ths car up heaps. I was at stockton on the sunday of the longweeknd and the sand was really soft.

The 33's at the pressure i dropped them to bagged out a little bit but not heaps.... My only concern is if i drop them to like 12/14 psi will it be easy to roll the tyre off the bead or is it ok on sand?

We drove fom lavis lane to the ship wreck (in which i overheated and had to stop) then went deep in the dunes back to lavis lane...

brad 93hilux wrote:
The 33's at the pressure i dropped them to bagged out a little bit but not heaps.... My only concern is if i drop them to like 12/14 psi will it be easy to roll the tyre off the bead or is it ok on sand?

Just drop em

This was at 12psi and he was doing everything you could do get the tyre off the bead Drive carefully (ie, not like in the pic ) and you'll be right down to 10psi. Even 5psi if you REALLY get stuck.

Best advice I was ever given for driving on Stocko is tyres to 10-12psi and you`ll go everywhere.

Only imes I`ve ever been stuck up there is when I havent gone down to 10psi.

I usually run my zook on swampers at about 8 to 10 psi. Drop down to 14 to 12 psi and try it, just go easy till you get he feel. Also look into your overheating prolblem too, as overheating on a beach is a pain in the arse, and potentially dangerous for your motor. Look at if the over heating is a gault, or you need a more efficient cooling system.

Layto....

you'll find that if you dont have a completely new radiator for that old 92 hilux, then your radiator is probably gunked up in the tubes. Even getting a pressure hose into the radiator holes doesnt clean them properly.

Best bet is take it to a radiator mob who will pull it apart and wash and poke it in a water bath, then U'll find the overheating problems will go away.

Had to do that with my 03 hilux and then didnt have a problem. Was forever over heating on Stockton, to the point where it became so annoying!!!

As for the lockers, Ive found they actually make the truck work harder in soft sand.

Mate are you running muddies?? i have found that the chunkier the tread the worse my trucks have performed on the soft sand.
drop the pressures more.
go 12 on front, 10 on the rear and see how you go, although loads can vary this mate.

does the challenger have road tyres on it by any chance??

the revvier an engine i have found the better they perform when driving dunes.

and yeah 2.8 diesel is possibly not the best on beach even with a turbo.

I would be looking into a new radiator or a big thermo fan too mate.

dont use lockers. yes they do drag as soon as you change direction from dead straight... obviously automatic lockers you have no choice and just deal with it.

air down 15-18- really shouldnt need more than this..

and learn to rev on the beach.... agricultural motors can handle a rev every now and again rev it like an old 3y

revs and speed particularly if comparing to a small petrol biatch...

I find that sometimes 2nd is to low and 3rd is to high, so I take off in 2nd, build up boost, and then quickly (trying not to lose boost while youre shifting up) change to 3rd and u will drive anything... and yeah tyre pressure down to 10/12psi.

and dont forget about momentum

I can show you pictures of me in a really nasty position at stockton... but thats another story. ShortyIQ soft sand

I have a shorty gq and I will often go as low as 10 - 11 psi with my 35" mtrs. I am aware of the rolling tyre off the rim factor and dont take any corners to quickly. I happily drop down to around 10 when I am playing on the rocks as well and haven't had any tyre rolling dramas to date.

i'm glad i am not the only one with a 2.8d that has problems i was up on stocton the weekend before australia day and found it very soft i was nearly bogged on the drive into the dunes from lavis lane and that was after dropping the tyres down to 15 then as soon as i hit the dunes i was stuck so dropped them down to 10 and drove straight out. However i do have split rims and bfg longtrails on so i had no bagging at all of the tyres.

Just remember people, when you air a tyre down, it's the tread length that increases, not the width, so just because it doesn't look like it's "bagging" it more then likely is down enough. The guauge will tell you what you need to know, not what the sidewalls look like. On Sunday i watched an old codger in an old diesel Landcruiser ute kitted out as a typical fishing truck on skinny tyres idle past a number of bogged late model mid sized V6 wagons and the guy in the Series Landrover towing the caravan along the beach didn't look like he was having to many dramas either.

brad 93hilux wrote:yeh i have a turbo, i tried all sorts of revs i found 3rd gear low range reving to bout 4000 rpm pob best but at that revs my turbo is hitting 9lb of boost and it heats ths car up heaps. I was at stockton on the sunday of the longweeknd and the sand was really soft.

The 33's at the pressure i dropped them to bagged out a little bit but not heaps.... My only concern is if i drop them to like 12/14 psi will it be easy to roll the tyre off the bead or is it ok on sand?

We drove fom lavis lane to the ship wreck (in which i overheated and had to stop) then went deep in the dunes back to lavis lane...

Just don't turn sharply and you shouldn't encounter much in the way of a bead rolling off. Check your cooling system to. My 4Runner cruises along the beach at 2500-3000rpm doing 40km/h above the high tide mark without any cooling issues. Even just having to high a tyre pressure may have just made your engine work to hard which bought temps up.

DIRTY ROCK STAR wrote:Mate are you running muddies?? i have found that the chunkier the tread the worse my trucks have performed on the soft sand.
drop the pressures more.
go 12 on front, 10 on the rear and see how you go, although loads can vary this mate.

does the challenger have road tyres on it by any chance??

the revvier an engine i have found the better they perform when driving dunes.

and yeah 2.8 diesel is possibly not the best on beach even with a turbo.

I would be looking into a new radiator or a big thermo fan too mate.

Yeh the tyres are cooper stt (muddies) and the challenger was running stockies (road tyres)....Ill have to pull the radiator out and get it cleaned.

Would removing the mechanical water pump and putting in a EWP help or would it jst make the water flow faster?

always late in a 2.8
air down more ... or do an engine conversion or turbo

sand + revs = fun



my old GQ ute could pull 3rd high in the sand on 35s ... but thats lots of boost and fuel and big EGTs

dirtyGQ wrote:

crankycruiser wrote:

brad 93hilux wrote: I was there with a factory stock mitsubishi challenger which seemed to get alot further than me (even without lokkers)


Cheers

power rules supreme on the sand.. and the mitsy woulda been a V6.. dont feel bad

not sure i agree there my cousins hundred series petrol is like driving a barge on the sand and that is aired down to 15psi.

My 4runner is CRAP on the beach was heaps better with the V6 instead of the 1UZ, it's fine on the flat but as soon as you go near the dunes it thinks about sinking and digging holes to bog itself in, my mate (yarno) had a 2.8 T/D MU and it runs rings around the 4runner (V6 or V8) on the soft stuff and you trying to tell me that power is supreme, there is on the beach such a thing as to much power, mine is heaps better at 1/2 throttle and I need to use the torque not the H/P or revs

Weight also makes a big difference Zuks are awesome on the beach even with bugger all power

I run rings around most things on the beach and i have a dirty old TD42 gq patrol. Been bogged once and that was australia day at southport (gold coast)with no air out the tyre and cheesecutters, let the air down and drove out.

I think the lockers pull you down in the soft sand,my car is worse with lockers on,i think when the diff is open the wheel that isnt driving keeps you afloat and the driving wheel pushes you along.In september at frazer i stopped in the middle of nagala to test my theory,i was on bald 33 bfg at 12 pound i idled of in low first with lockers on and it clawed for quiet a distance before it got up and away,lockers off and the car just idled of no problems.Next time your in semi soft sand put it in two wheel drive and idle off with locker on and then try the same with locker off.This is just my opinion and for me this works,please dont pick on me cause it makes me sad

There seem to be many factors in sand driving that i've found over the years, weight, tyres, pressures, gear ratios, power curves, and general driving styles.
for me i air down to 12(staun's set at that for rock anyway) and leave it in 2wd unless im having a real play with the big dunes and then just 4hi
but iv'e got 38.5 x 16 claws and a nice revy v8

Some standard 4bys are good and some aren't
and some drivers are just shit at driving in the sand and have no idea
no offence to anyone

OzBinder wrote:for me i air down to 12(staun's set at that for rock anyway) and leave it in 2wd unless im having a real play with the big dunes and then just 4hi

and some drivers are just shit at driving in the sand and have no idea

No offence, but driving on sand in 2WD is probably the worst thing you can do as far as erosion is concerned. On the harder beach sand it is fine, but as soon as you get above the high tide line you aren't doing anyone any favours. The last thing we need is more chopped up sand tracks at Stocko.

lockers get you about 2m ferther up the dunes dont worry about using them. i run 12psi in my 33/12.5/15 and have no probs. Was up there a few weeks ago with the mother in laws rangie got that stuck it was fun pulling a $110000 out with my jeep