Outer Limits 4x4 Board

People,

I am trying to find a copy of a certain form I need.
This form is one that you send to Queensland Transport so that you can recieve written confirmation, that the modification you are about to under take is legal or not.

As many people say many different things about (and I know it has been brought up over and over) bl00dy body lifts....

I have been told by some that the only body lift you can do has to be steel and welded to the chassis in QLD...


Need confirmation from the guys that can take my car off the road...


Cheers,

Meldge

Meldge wrote:People,

Need confirmation from the guys that can take my car off the road...

contact them for the form??

Yeah, just need the time to get down there...

Thought another wheeler, might have already been through it and had one...
Found a form, but not entirely sure if it is it...


Thanks dude...

Meldge wrote:People,

I am trying to find a copy of a certain form I need.
This form is one that you send to Queensland Transport so that you can recieve written confirmation, that the modification you are about to under take is legal or not.

As many people say many different things about (and I know it has been brought up over and over) bl00dy body lifts....

I have been told by some that the only body lift you can do has to be steel and welded to the chassis in QLD...


Need confirmation from the guys that can take my car off the road...


Cheers,

Meldge

You can use steel or aluminium blocks for the body lift, they must be the same daimeter or larger (slightly) than the rubber isolating mount. They do not need to be welded in, just use longer grade 8 or higher mounting bolts in the same diameter and thread pitch with a self locking type nut (nyloc or oval type thread).

You may be able to download a form from a website (I don't know the addy), or even talk to the guys in the tranny dept (lotsa music on hold though) Heres a ph number I used to use - hopefully it hasn't changed - 07 3253 4851. This should put you through to the department that handles modifications etc, talk to them, get them to send out a form and give you furthur advice on materials. The process you normally go through is: Apply to modify, they assess your application, if they approve you proceed with the body lift as per your application, You book in with a 'pit' style Dept of Transport inspection station for an inspection (read: full machinery: make sure your rig is in top notch full RWC condition - they will ping you here for other stuff as they also do a full vehicle safety inspection) and they inspect the mods, you then take your approved application form to be stamped as a legal vehicle (if not - bup booww - you get a set amount of time to 'right' the vehicle to a roadworthy state, then go through the 'machinery' process all over again.)

WOW WEE...

Now thats informative...

That should be cool I will give that a go and see what happens...
How about a custom rollbar...
It will be getting made before the body lift so that when they make the bull bar it will sit the right height...

Once again, "been told" that it is just a mod plate, but would i need a full inspection for that aswell, that way I will mention it on the form aswell...


Thanks for that Area54...

Rollbar? I think it depends on the type of vehicle - also is it for competition or for private weekend use? I think for non-competition use in a ute there is no need for plating, only common sense and reasonable strength in design, materials and mounting as a guideline (as well as the usual not protrude excessively, solid mounting points etc)

For comp use I would seek professional opinions. Build up a rapport with the local Approved QLD Transport inspection station officer - The QLD tranny guys you talk to on the phone can help you with numbers and locations of Approved officers in your area. These guys act as the intermediate advisers/installers/inspectors/approvers of general mods for QLD transport.

Cool, I will try to find some accredited people, so to speak...

It will be for private/weekend, dont know if i want to bend it in comps just yet...

MWB has a standard rollie bar, but i want to mount a twin 3" polished bar, with arms running down to the rear...

______
|| \
|| |

quick/bad ascii drawing... just need to see an engineer about that one first though not sure...

welded and bolted to the floor pan, hopefully be enough...

The form you are after is a 'Motor Vehicle Modification Application' form.

This form reference number is Form F1854 ES.

You should be able to get one of these from your local customer service centre or I can fax you one. Body lifts are approved vehicle by vehicle. It pays to put a cover letter with this form describing what you have done and how you have addressed any areas that have been affected.

Blocks don't have to be steel. I have used HDPE (High density poly ethelene) for mine and others. Make sure you are conclusive in addressing what has been done. Saves time when they don't have to ask you for more information and helps to stop you going into the too hard basket.

No disrespect that you are in Gympie, but in Brisbane guys have been pinged with block material other than steel or aluminium. I would agree with you that there is plenty of strength in using HDPE as a block material, but it might not yield any advantage to use HDPE instead of alum or steel right from the start from a machinery inspection point of view. In Brisbane the ping officers are specially trained to know what to look out for as there is no shortage of people that push the limits. Officers in Gympie can see common sense and prolly bend because the HDPE is plenty strong, but in Brisbane the officers are more spiteful and want everything done to to the letter in their books.

All written approvals are done through the Brisbane office.

Have these people been pinged for having no approval or for using HDPE?

Just spoke to another engineer in Brisbane and he said he has had no probs in getting HDPE lift blocks through. These guys in Brisbane may getting a raw deal from an inspector who is ill informed.

auto_eng wrote:All written approvals are done through the Brisbane office.

Have these people been pinged for having no approval or for using HDPE?

Just spoke to another engineer in Brisbane and he said he has had no probs in getting HDPE lift blocks through. These guys in Brisbane may getting a raw deal from an inspector who is ill informed.

Yeah, both. Then at the machinery inspection level they are told they need to apply correctly, change the blocks to alum or steel, and then book in for another machinery inspection (these inspections are done at the Dept of Transport pits, not approved inspection stations) DOT in Brisbane do not like modified 4x4s on the road, much the same as the streetcars of yesterday, 4x4s are the next target because it is so much easier to spot the illegal mods, as opposed to a 'sleeper' streetcar where a lot of the mods are hidden under the bonnet etc.

It is good to see some people are taking the correct action to have mods approved and legal for road use (and hopefully covered by insurance)

So the jist I'm getting is apply and then only use steel or ally blocks? to be on the safe side.
And is there a fee each time over the pits, ie come back and pay again

Does this help???




[PDF] all about modifications to motor vehicles File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
Page 1. all about modifications to motor vehicles modifi cations Motor vehicles
Page 2. all about modifications to motor vehicles


http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/qt/driver.nsf/files/images/$file/Vehicle-Modifications.pdf

Right click over the link and SAVE TARGET AS
its only 500kb..

Linky no worky.

Area54 wrote:Linky no worky.

try again... had a space in there.

Link seems to be working fine. Saving as per anything else

So when you send in the form and they give the in-principle okay, do they also tell you whether you need an actual Qld Transport inspection or that an 'approved person' inspection would be adequate?

Body lift is so straightforward on most 4WDs that it seems odd to me that you can't get an approval with a bit less hassle ie from the local engineer.

Incidentally with this form specifically I wonder if anyone could scan it and post it; it would be a useful and responsible thing to have on the site after all

(If noone else does I'll get one and do it myself... eventually!)

Jason

chimpboy wrote:So when you send in the form and they give the in-principle okay, do they also tell you whether you need an actual Qld Transport inspection or that an 'approved person' inspection would be adequate?

Body lift is so straightforward on most 4WDs that it seems odd to me that you can't get an approval with a bit less hassle ie from the local engineer.

Incidentally with this form specifically I wonder if anyone could scan it and post it; it would be a useful and responsible thing to have on the site after all

(If noone else does I'll get one and do it myself... eventually!)

Jason

It has to be inspected by a DOT officer at a DOT inspection station, this is printed on the paperwork they send back to you:

Quote: INSPECTION: " The completed vehicle must pass a full inspection by an officer of the QLD Transport and arrangements may be made by contacting the Senior Transport Inspector at Logan City. A fee must be paid at the time of inspection."

Area54 wrote:Quote: INSPECTION: " The completed vehicle must pass a full inspection by an officer of the QLD Transport and arrangements may be made by contacting the Senior Transport Inspector at Logan City. A fee must be paid at the time of inspection."

Thank you. This is a very useful thread.

I guess as time goes by the benefits of doing everything legally are growing on me.

Jason

Legal is good, nobody wants to tow their car home, unless its cause they been drivin hard enough to break it, then it's half okay...

The only probs with queensland is making it big and legal at the same time...

Bloody QT - Hurry up and change to another states road rules!!!

There is talk that the National Light Vehicle Code of Practice is only just around the corner. Mind you they said that 10 year ago too. It would be good to have a national code so there is one set of rules to meet.

Expecially if Queensland adobts some of NSW rules.

auto_eng wrote:There is talk that the National Light Vehicle Code of Practice is only just around the corner. Mind you they said that 10 year ago too. It would be good to have a national code so there is one set of rules to meet.

Expecially if Queensland adobts some of NSW rules.

If this was to happen wouldn't states like QLD, WA, etcc which have tighter laws have to be relaxed and take onboard NSW rules. Surely it could not go the other way. For instance if they made a OZ rule that make SOA illegal, what happens to all those people in NSW that have a SOA legalised ????


Have you heard any more about the national code. I too have been haring about it over the last 3 years!!!!


Chris.

Just got this in an email from Queensland Transport

"A national light vehicle code of practice is being developed and was
scheduled to be agreed before the end of the year - but probably March
2004. The national code will describe technical requirements but will
leave administrative procedures relatively open to each jurisdiction.

When it's finalised it will be available on DOTAR's website same as the
Heavy Vehicle Code of Practice."

So I guess it must be a go ahead....

auto_eng wrote: The national code will describe technical requirements but will
leave administrative procedures relatively open to each jurisdiction.

What does this mean?? The rules will be the same accross the states, but examing if they will allow it to be passed is up to each state!! So in the case of WA you surposedly need to do a lane change test for anything over 2" (body lift and/or suspension lift). So if a 4" suspension lift is legal under the new scheme but it dosn't pass the lane change test then it will not be legal in WA. But in NSW I believe they currently do not need to do lane change test!! (BTW this is only an example).

This sound like nothing will change. If the WA or OLD transport DEPT do not want SOA to be legal they will simply devise a administrative requirement that the vechile could not possible meet therefore not allowing SOA.

An I missing something or am I being to cynical???

Chris.

Does anyone know if Extended shackles are legal in NSW or VIC ???

Chris.

cbr wrote:

auto_eng wrote: The national code will describe technical requirements but will
leave administrative procedures relatively open to each jurisdiction.

What does this mean??

This sound like nothing will change. If the WA or OLD transport DEPT do not want SOA to be legal they will simply devise a administrative requirement that the vechile could not possible meet therefore not allowing SOA.

An I missing something or am I being to cynical???

I suspect you're being too cynical, yeah. Administrative requirements would be things like what documentation you need to provide, who needs to conduct the inspection, what time limit applies to this or that etc. I think if the Qld or WA transport dept didn't want SOA mods to be legal they just wouldn't sign up for the national scheme.

On the other hand, I am sure that safety requirements would still rule. If your SOA means you can't change lanes quickly enough (I have no idea exactly what the lane change test you're referring to consists of) then I'd probably agree with the WA transport dept that it shouldn't be road legal.

The upside is that if you can make your SOA vehicle safe, they can't refuse to certify it.

Sounds good to me - at least it's not worse than the status quo. Maybe I'll wait until March before I start modding the newly purchased Maverick significantly.

BTW I have some experience with this kind of development of national rules to replace state rules (and trans-Tasman for that matter), although it's in a different area (pharmaceuticals.) Generally what tends to happen is that it just simplifies things, not just between the states but within a state. The reason I think is that the existing rules tend to have built up over a long period, with rule layered on rule until it's a difficult mess. Then they codify the lot nationally and they write one rule for each issue, and that's it. Fingers crossed, things will improve for those of us in the fringe states

Jason

auto_eng wrote:Just got this in an email from Queensland Transport

"A national light vehicle code of practice is being developed and was
scheduled to be agreed before the end of the year - but probably March
2004. The national code will describe technical requirements but will
leave administrative procedures relatively open to each jurisdiction.

When it's finalised it will be available on DOTAR's website same as the
Heavy Vehicle Code of Practice."

So I guess it must be a go ahead....

That release date has been getting pushed back for over 2 yrs now. I have had look through the proposed code of practise and they have removed the ICV area which is being further tightened. The documnet itself was all but done 18 mths ago and it is stuck with people argueing over details that will probably never matter anyway.

SOA will become legal as will larger tyres, as long as you can find a qualified person to sign off on them. It puts a lot of work back onto the approved persons on the street and takes a bit away from DOT and the likes. If it ever comes off it will be a good thing and should make the lives of those who wish to do extreme mods much easier.

As for lift blocks I have had boat rollers (HDPE) approved twice now with next to no effort so would have to agree with auto_eng on that one. I would be keen to know who knocked back HDPE blocks back and on what grounds under the current code which clearly states in Bulletin 35 May 2000

"An individual vehicle modification application to be made to Queensland Transport for body lift kits (blocks between body / cabin and chassis mounts) up to 50 mm in height. Applications must indicate changes made to implement the modification (including steering and braking componentry and materials used in the lift blocks. Body lifts in excess of 50 mm will not be considered. If acceptable a letter of approval for the installation of a body lift kit will be issued by Queensland Transport "

No mention of material is made and HDPE is classed and used in many applications as spaceing blocks under compression.

Brad wrote:That release date has been getting pushed back for over 2 yrs now. I have had look through the proposed code of practise and they have removed the ICV area which is being further tightened. The documnet itself was all but done 18 mths ago and it is stuck with people argueing over details that will probably never matter anyway.

SOA will become legal as will larger tyres, as long as you can find a qualified person to sign off on them. It puts a lot of work back onto the approved persons on the street and takes a bit away from DOT and the likes. If it ever comes off it will be a good thing and should make the lives of those who wish to do extreme mods much easier.

I hope so. Any one have firmer dates for introduction???

Chris.

chimpboy wrote:

cbr wrote:

auto_eng wrote: The national code will describe technical requirements but will
leave administrative procedures relatively open to each jurisdiction.

What does this mean??

This sound like nothing will change. If the WA or OLD transport DEPT do not want SOA to be legal they will simply devise a administrative requirement that the vechile could not possible meet therefore not allowing SOA.

An I missing something or am I being to cynical???

I suspect you're being too cynical, yeah. Administrative requirements would be things like what documentation you need to provide, who needs to conduct the inspection, what time limit applies to this or that etc. I think if the Qld or WA transport dept didn't want SOA mods to be legal they just wouldn't sign up for the national scheme.

On the other hand, I am sure that safety requirements would still rule. If your SOA means you can't change lanes quickly enough (I have no idea exactly what the lane change test you're referring to consists of) then I'd probably agree with the WA transport dept that it shouldn't be road legal.

The upside is that if you can make your SOA vehicle safe, they can't refuse to certify it.

Sounds good to me - at least it's not worse than the status quo. Maybe I'll wait until March before I start modding the newly purchased Maverick significantly.

BTW I have some experience with this kind of development of national rules to replace state rules (and trans-Tasman for that matter), although it's in a different area (pharmaceuticals.) Generally what tends to happen is that it just simplifies things, not just between the states but within a state. The reason I think is that the existing rules tend to have built up over a long period, with rule layered on rule until it's a difficult mess. Then they codify the lot nationally and they write one rule for each issue, and that's it. Fingers crossed, things will improve for those of us in the fringe states

Jason

I think chimpboy is only the money with the Administation requirements bit. The NSW SAE has been talking for about 18 months about having a shake up of their approved signatories. There was even talk about making everyone reapply for their signatory rights to get rid of the dodgies.

All working to the same limits would be a good start even if one state has engineers reports and others have plates.

chimpboy wrote:

Area54 wrote:Quote: INSPECTION: " The completed vehicle must pass a full inspection by an officer of the QLD Transport and arrangements may be made by contacting the Senior Transport Inspector at Logan City. A fee must be paid at the time of inspection."

Thank you. This is a very useful thread.

I guess as time goes by the benefits of doing everything legally are growing on me.

Jason

Not much good if the biggest approvable oversize height tyre with or without enginer approval is 10% or 1" (whichever is the lesser) as is supposed to be our current legal position.

Why only 1" taller when you are allowed 50% wider is beyond all comprehension.....

Cant wait to see the Mav diffing out on it's 32"s while Im running my illegal 31"s and kicking yo' a$$!

Bring on March 2004 and just hope they dont delay it again.... getting really pi55ed off at the stuff that is able to be certifeid as legal in every other state but QLD.

I guess all we can hope for is that the Standard Vehicle code shuts up Current Affair and all those other "4wds are evil and should be eliminated" idiots like out good old ex mayor Jim Soorley.


I know the first ba5tards I'm aiming for with my bullbar.....