Outer Limits 4x4 Board

have collected a few bits and peices for a rock crawler i want to put together, running in pro-mod. tyres are 37" maxiss crawlers, engine up in the air as need to decide on transfer, but i want to keep the capacity low. have a zook 1.6 efi and a couple of zook transfer cases

1. how low is to low??? what kind of crawl ratio should i be aiming for?? or is it just as low as you can go. would a stage 3 zook case be low enough?

2. i have posted up in rangy tech about some diffs i had planned to use but was told they would be to weak. so i have palmed them off, now have access to either MQ diffs or i have one front 75 series diff and would have to source the rear. i would like an opinion on these diffs as to wether you feel they would be strong enough. i know GQ/GU diffs would be best but don't want to invest that much money.


thanks
luke

75 series (early) is the same diffs as 60 series (except 75 series is narrower so different axles) which are pretty strong especially if you drop in a set of longfield cv's

later 75 series had the high pinion front diff (same as 80) which is significantly weaker.

most people usually run autos with a crawl around 40 to 60:1

ill be running a 1.3 efi manual at around 110:1

id go the toyota diffs as they have alot more aftermarket support

Cruiser will give you a 4.1 ratio. MQ can give you a 4.6.

If you went MQ, Cruiser, Hilux or whatever you'd need strengthened CV's which adds to the cost of the stock diffs.

Then look at a GU front diff with GQ disc rear diff and you don't spend much more money as the CV strength is pretty good stock.

But going to a Nissan diff there is no options on upgrading CVs or axels.
I would use 60series diffs as you then have the option of going to cromo CVs and axels whick will be alot stronger then Nissan gear

nottie wrote:But going to a Nissan diff there is no options on upgrading CVs or axels.

cr-mo/300m CV and axle sets are being made at the moment.
The first 10 sets (20 CV's, 10 short axles and 10 long axles) were due to be finished for display/sale at tuff truck, but will be a bit later now.

They will be expensive, but will be backed with a very strong warranty.

Wendle wrote:

nottie wrote:But going to a Nissan diff there is no options on upgrading CVs or axels.

cr-mo/300m CV and axle sets are being made at the moment.
The first 10 sets (20 CV's, 10 short axles and 10 long axles) were due to be finished for display/sale at tuff truck, but will be a bit later now.

They will be expensive, but will be backed with a very strong warranty.

is this gq only or gu as well?

there has being options for running longfeilds in a GQ for ages, they cost a few dolars by the time you ad the cost of a custom axle, but then a custon chromo axle is gunna be hard to break

it seams that gq\u diffs have gone out of fashion for some reason, but for a good strong diff package they are hard to beat in standard form, and there is option to strengthen them

all you get over yota gear with a gq diff is the diff centre strength, cv's are the same size as a hilux.

As soon as there is chromoly axles and cv's for gq's they will be worth using.

tuf045 wrote:is this gq only or gu as well?

GQ only at this stage. Need to create a market first, give people a reason to use the Nissan axles as a base for their project.
In reality there would be lucky to be 50 people in the country at the moment breaking GQ CV's regularly, but even at that rate the supply of used units is drying up. I strongly believe in the Nissan product as a great axle to use, but the CV problem has always needed to be addressed.
I am confident these CV's will be strong enough to create a need to supply a cr-mo drive flange to replace the freewheeling hub. That brings with it an option of increasing the diameter of the stub axle (there is room inside the spindle), but it may not be needed, time will tell.

-Richo- wrote:all you get over yota gear with a gq diff is the diff centre strength, cv's are the same size as a hilux.

As soon as there is chromoly axles and cv's for gq's they will be worth using.

GQ cvs are larger than a 60 series...... i know because i had both and compared..... several times.

they allready do "strengthened" CVs for GQs too, mick garner quenches them and puts on a ring on the end of the cup to stop them spreading.

on the #75 the rear is a full floater, is this the same for the #60???

if i can get the 60 in full floaterr i think i will opt for them.

the main reason i was thinking mq was because i seen cheezy put them in that moon buggy (rodent???) build up[ he did in dirt/comp.

thanks luke

60 is full floater, and what the moon buggy guys use, except the few who run danas

-Richo- wrote:all you get over yota gear with a gq diff is the diff centre strength, cv's are the same size as a hilux.

As soon as there is chromoly axles and cv's for gq's they will be worth using.

how many 60 series blow centers though? not many.

chunderlicious wrote:60 is full floater, and what the moon buggy guys use, except the few who run danas

all aus spec 60 series are full floater, but some imports are semi floaters.

I think the question that needs to be asked is how you drive, flat out or gently gently.

also in the price!
i just bought gq's for my zook
WAY overkill, but it was either that, or 60's
and the gq's were cheeper in the long run..
if your are breaking them you realy must be trying

Red_Zook wrote:also in the price!
i just bought gq's for my zook
WAY overkill, but it was either that, or 60's
and the gq's were cheeper in the long run..
if your are breaking them you realy must be trying

Everything in a buggy has the chance to let go at some stage.

When you have 30 seconds left before you DNF a "gentle" driving style will often be thrown out the window.

BTW the MQ diffs in the Rodent are being changed, still some MQ bits but not many will be left.

Do what you can to ennsure your diffs, CV's, axles etc are as strong as you can. Even if it means waiting a little longer to do it.

chunderlicious wrote:GQ cvs are larger than a 60 series...... i know because i had both and compared..... several times.

Thats funny because the stars and balls are totaly interchangable.

Wendle if possible could you please keep us updated on the cromo 300m CVs and axels for the GQs please.

Chunderlicous
As far as any treated CV goes with steel rings bizaloy (spelling) rings or cromo rings they will never be as stroong as a cromo CV

As far as i know GQ diffs are a bit more in price then the old 60 series diffs.
Any one interested i can get the 60 series diffs for about $450/500 a set.
Just depends on availability at the time though.

I`ve gone with GQ diffs for my buggy, but ONLY!!! because they were FREE!!!!!!! and the airlocked centres only cost me $900 for the pair

If I had to pay for them I would have either saved for longer and got D60`s or just gone with 60 series stuff and spent the dollars over a period of time with upgrading them.

I guess it all depends on what 1 can afford .........either way once you start adding chromo gear to any axle it adds up real quick ....then different ratio's ....lockers .....

When you consider what you can get a set of mogs for these days I think these are the axle choice for strength +factory lockers, swheet ratios and a bucket load of clearance

My 60's cruiser front would have to owe me about

$1100 -30 spline cv/chromo axles
$300 - chromo drive flanges
$1000 - A.R.B air locker
$450 - 4.8 diff gears ..
$250 - (guess) for all new bearings/seals- inlcuding the rebuilding the third ....

Yikes why did I go and add all that up ......$3100 like I said should just by some mogs

All that and I still have week knuckle's (steering arms)

Rear diff is only a fraction or a bit over half.....

.....definatley Guts you have the deal there ....now stop talking about it and get that buggy together ....

Yeah it shore adds up pretty quick hey Dan
But then again if say for instance running a pro mod buggy i dont think you are allowed to run a "step down style of portal " only a revolution style.
But for something like your rig they would be great to run a set of mogs. Only hassle would be the passenger side drop Damn Germans didnt think of everything afterall.

Edit my bit on step down portals for pro mods as i just re checked the rules and theres nothing saying you cannot run portals of any type.

RUFF wrote:

chunderlicious wrote:GQ cvs are larger than a 60 series...... i know because i had both and compared..... several times.

Thats funny because the stars and balls are totaly interchangable.

damn, that shut me up, maybe im going blind aswell as deaf

chunderlicious wrote:

RUFF wrote:

chunderlicious wrote:GQ cvs are larger than a 60 series...... i know because i had both and compared..... several times.

Thats funny because the stars and balls are totaly interchangable.

damn, that shut me up, maybe im going blind aswell as deaf

Think the outer of the bell on a GQ is bigger, hence the looking bigger

Never checked the star and balls, but a hilux CV slips onto a GQ axle and vice-versa

They are both NTN?

Mock

nottie wrote:Yeah it shore adds up pretty quick hey Dan
But then again if say for instance running a pro mod buggy i dont think you are allowed to run a "step down style of portal " only a revolution style.
But for something like your rig they would be great to run a set of mogs. Only hassle would be the passenger side drop Damn Germans didnt think of everything afterall.

Edit my bit on step down portals for pro mods as i just re checked the rules and theres nothing saying you cannot run portals of any type.

ARRHHHH you better believe it. And thats what we will be running in our pro mod class buggy gu rear with portals and gq front with portals. now we just have to fab them to fit.

got confused with the orginal post. will be running in modified class. so no portals for me.

backyard_racer wrote:have collected a few bits and peices for a rock crawler i want to put together, running in pro-mod. tyres are 37" maxiss crawlers, engine up in the air as need to decide on transfer, but i want to keep the capacity low. have a zook 1.6 efi and a couple of zook transfer cases

1. how low is to low??? what kind of crawl ratio should i be aiming for?? or is it just as low as you can go. would a stage 3 zook case be low enough?

2. i have posted up in rangy tech about some diffs i had planned to use but was told they would be to weak. so i have palmed them off, now have access to either MQ diffs or i have one front 75 series diff and would have to source the rear. i would like an opinion on these diffs as to wether you feel they would be strong enough. i know GQ/GU diffs would be best but don't want to invest that much money.


thanks
luke

COOL THEN BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST...

cheapest way out with your setup would be the zook running gear to hilux diffs, 4.88 ratios and crawler gears in the zook case, my setup gives me about 70:1 crawl ratio. this is with 5.14 calminis in the transfer.

but hilux diffs aren't the strongest, but can be upgraded using chromoly longfields. we have gotten away without longs for 2 years now.
something to do with our wheels only ever being on the ground half the time.

for something more stable 60 series diffs are popular (wider) with the same chromoly cv's, axles and hub gears. I thnk you can get 4.88 ratios for these? or maybe 4.5's then go 6.5:! in the transfer or run the duals.

Chris

Cheap easy setup

thanks for that chris. i got over-excited with the modified/pro-modified thing and led every1 down the wrong path.

i have a couple of zook transfers i wanted to use but wasn't sure on their strength, i got the download vid from somewhere (double low films) with your buggy in it. was wondering what transfer case you had.

i guess i will have to get some diffs and start a build thread.