Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:00 pm**

Just need to know how and where to find the fuel adjustment on the injector pump. I know you need a special tool of some sort, but shouldn't be too hard to knock something up once I can see what it needs.

Seems to be over fuelling majorly.... lots of black smoke and has been getting worse in the past month or 2 so I think I seriously need to fix it.

Looks worse than the bat mobile's smoke screen when the revs are up.

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:02 am**

Hey brighty, Full fuel adjustment is located on the top/rear of the pump. You don't need special tools, just a pair of vice grips and screwy from memory. It's like an idle speed screw only different....
With the engine running the EDIC motor pulls the fuel lever into the run position. The run position is determinied by the full fuel screw. The full fuel screw has a spring load tip on it so the EDIC can pull it past the run postion to give extra fuel on start up.
BEFORE you go adjusting it...........
It shouldn't need to be adjust, they don't come out of adjustment.
The EDIC motors are prone to pulling to the full fuel position on start up and staying there!. To check this, start and drive the car to varify it's blowing smoke. Pull over, leave engine running, Remove the rod that connects from the EDIC motor to the injector pump (it just pulls off no tools required). If the smoke stops then the EDIC system is at fault. (the rod will actually have some tension on it if the EDIC is stuck on)
If the EDIC is not at fault then you can try adjusting it. One quarter of a turn is plenty and you screw it in for less fuel out for more as it is a stop screw.
Good Luck.
Cheers Dan

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:33 pm**

Hey Ruffy,

I reckon on my 2H, the spring inside the fuel pump opens the rack to the 'overfuel' position if the relay rod is removed. Maybe mine's different (or broken).

I'm not trying to be a smart-arse, but from what I have observed on mine, the test you describe is invalid (or at least any results may be misleading). I am of course assuming that mine is working correctly.

If I recall correctly, adjustment is possible on the EDIC motor (to ensure correct rack positions for stop, run and overfuel at the EDIC) and the length of the relay rod is adjustable via a threaded section to ensure this is translated correctly to the rack itself. May simply be a case of adjusting one or both.

I reckon all the details are in the Gregories workshop manual (for these bits, anyway).

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:48 pm**

juscruisin wrote:Hey Ruffy,

I reckon on my 2H, the spring inside the fuel pump opens the rack to the 'overfuel' position if the relay rod is removed. Maybe mine's different (or broken).

I'm not trying to be a smart-arse, but from what I have observed on mine, the test you describe is invalid (or at least any results may be misleading). I am of course assuming that mine is working correctly.

If I recall correctly, adjustment is possible on the EDIC motor (to ensure correct rack positions for stop, run and overfuel at the EDIC) and the length of the relay rod is adjustable via a threaded section to ensure this is translated correctly to the rack itself. May simply be a case of adjusting one or both.

I reckon all the details are in the Gregories workshop manual (for these bits, anyway).

With the rod disconnected it should move to the centre or "run" position. If you watch it the lever on the pump is actually not held in the run position by the EDIC motor. It is pulled to full fuel or pushed to turn off. With the EDIC in the run position you SHOULD be able to move the lever on the pump in both directions.
There is an adjustment on the rod itself but as i mentioned before, if it has been operating ok then it will not come out of adjustment. There would have to be a fault to cause this. Simply adjusting the problem away is merely masking it.
If yours moves to full fuel when the rod is disconnected then you've got a problem. Both the off and full fuel positions have spring tension to push the lever back to the run position.
Cheers. Dan

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:29 pm**

ya cant get it undone with vice grips as it has a metal guard around it

you need a special 3 prong tool, or a hammer and punch.

I made up a tool to do the job, will put a photo of it up tonight, might even have the measurements i took to make it somewhere.

As ruffy said though, it shouldnt need adjusting, unless it has been adjusted before and is now set wrong, or youve added a turbo or something which would make you think it can now handle more fuel.

Ive also found the same problem ruffy mentioned can be caused by the spring loaded plunger in the end of the fuel adjustment screw sticking in which means the engine is running slightly over fueled.

What problem are you having?

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:10 pm**

Its not a hole in the governor(?) diaphragm causing it to over-fuel...?
Similar prob on my old engine -on the back of the pump under a cover is a rubber diaphragm, mine had a small tear.

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:12 pm**

Bugger!

Apologies for the hijack, brighty.

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:58 pm**

juscruisin wrote:Bugger!

Apologies for the hijack, brighty.

haha, no probs, any info is good info I reckon.

Shadow,
As said in my first post.... it was smoking to start with but has become increasingly worse over the past 1-2months. It's at a pont now where I think I'll get pulled over by the blue brigade for pollution if they see it. Last thing I want to deal with is the EPA

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:44 pm**

Sixty wrote:Its not a hole in the governor(?) diaphragm causing it to over-fuel...?
Similar prob on my old engine -on the back of the pump under a cover is a rubber diaphragm, mine had a small tear.

can you explain some symptoms you had? I have a problem where it doesnt smoke under normal load, but when under heavy load (foot the floor or pushing my 3b hard) it pours out black smoke.. I just wonder if i could possibly have a similar issue to what you describe..

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:51 pm**

brighty wrote:
juscruisin wrote:Bugger!

Apologies for the hijack, brighty.
haha, no probs, any info is good info I reckon.

Shadow,
As said in my first post.... it was smoking to start with but has become increasingly worse over the past 1-2months. It's at a pont now where I think I'll get pulled over by the blue brigade for pollution if they see it. Last thing I want to deal with is the EPA

well thats not going to be your fuel adjustment screw, sounds like a problem with pump or injectors to me.

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:57 am**

Shadow wrote:
brighty wrote:
juscruisin wrote:Bugger!

Apologies for the hijack, brighty.
haha, no probs, any info is good info I reckon.

Shadow,
As said in my first post.... it was smoking to start with but has become increasingly worse over the past 1-2months. It's at a pont now where I think I'll get pulled over by the blue brigade for pollution if they see it. Last thing I want to deal with is the EPA
well thats not going to be your fuel adjustment screw, sounds like a problem with pump or injectors to me.

Maybe a hole in the diaphram as Sixty said???? What do you think????
I'm sooooo F&*^%$G over it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:10 am**

brighty wrote:
Shadow wrote:
brighty wrote:
juscruisin wrote:Bugger!

Apologies for the hijack, brighty.
haha, no probs, any info is good info I reckon.

Shadow,
As said in my first post.... it was smoking to start with but has become increasingly worse over the past 1-2months. It's at a pont now where I think I'll get pulled over by the blue brigade for pollution if they see it. Last thing I want to deal with is the EPA
well thats not going to be your fuel adjustment screw, sounds like a problem with pump or injectors to me.
Maybe a hole in the diaphram as Sixty said???? What do you think????
I'm sooooo F&*^%$G over it.

First thing to do is to pull the fuel setting arm forward and see if the plunger in the end of the fuel adjustment screw is sticking (push it in and out, should move very freely.

If its sticking, oil it up and work the oil in there. Ive had this happen to mine before my rebuild and the guy that rebuilt my engine said it was a fairly common thing.

Then just start your car and drop the rod off the edic motor (engine will run fine with it off, just wont be able to stop your engine until you reconect the bar, or push the fuel setting arm forward yourself (chokes the engine of fuel) See if it is still over fueling, if its not then its likely a problem with your edic.

Next have a look at your diaphram, if it has never been replaced it is probably a good idea to replace it anyway as it wont be far off splitting. Never done this myself but its not a hard job from what I hear. Youl need the diaphram and a new rubber seal I believe. Youl need to replace the seal after you take the cover off no matter wether you replace the diapham or not as it will most likely leak otherwise.

With a 2H overfueling can really only be caused by the fuel system as if there is an air restriction the pump will adjust the fuel proportion accordingly due to the pressure drop through the butterfly (venturi?). However, I would be checking your air system for restrictions anyway. How old is the filter?

After doing all that I think your only option is to take it to someone who can have a look at your injectors and pump, but thats going to cost

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:13 pm**

shorty_f0rty wrote:
Sixty wrote:Its not a hole in the governor(?) diaphragm causing it to over-fuel...?
Similar prob on my old engine -on the back of the pump under a cover is a rubber diaphragm, mine had a small tear.
can you explain some symptoms you had? I have a problem where it doesnt smoke under normal load, but when under heavy load (foot the floor or pushing my 3b hard) it pours out black smoke.. I just wonder if i could possibly have a similar issue to what you describe..

Sound pretty similar! Driving gently was ok. Accelerating or heavy load would cause black chaff everywhere

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:59 pm**

First thing to do is to pull the fuel setting arm forward and see if the plunger in the end of the fuel adjustment screw is sticking (push it in and out, should move very freely. This is working fine!!!

If its sticking, oil it up and work the oil in there. Ive had this happen to mine before my rebuild and the guy that rebuilt my engine said it was a fairly common thing.

Then just start your car and drop the rod off the edic motor (engine will run fine with it off, just wont be able to stop your engine until you reconect the bar, or push the fuel setting arm forward yourself (chokes the engine of fuel) See if it is still over fueling, if its not then its likely a problem with your edic.It's still over fuelling, so seems to be working fine also!!!

Next have a look at your diaphram, if it has never been replaced it is probably a good idea to replace it anyway as it wont be far off splitting. Never done this myself but its not a hard job from what I hear. Youl need the diaphram and a new rubber seal I believe. Youl need to replace the seal after you take the cover off no matter wether you replace the diapham or not as it will most likely leak otherwise.Where exactly do I find this diaphram to check it????

With a 2H overfueling can really only be caused by the fuel system as if there is an air restriction the pump will adjust the fuel proportion accordingly due to the pressure drop through the butterfly (venturi?). However, I would be checking your air system for restrictions anyway. How old is the filter?Air filter is only about 3000km old, so shouldn't be a problem. I have also given it a good revving whilst in the driveway with the filter box opened, same blake smoke problem, so I think I can discount the air intake as a problem.

After doing all that I think your only option is to take it to someone who can have a look at your injectors and pump, but thats going to cost I really don't want to do this!!!

Sixty,
Maybe you can help with the diaphram part of things????

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:53 pm**

brighty wrote: Sixty,
Maybe you can help with the diaphram part of things????

governor diaphram is located under a cover at the back of the pump.

Looking at the back of the pump, look at the top of the pump

If you want I can scan the whole page i took that from, but thats all you really need, the rest of it goes into the dismantling of the whole pump.

youl need to get the diaphram from toyota or a diesel place.

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:38 pm**

Shadow wrote:
brighty wrote: Sixty,
Maybe you can help with the diaphram part of things????
governor diaphram is located under a cover at the back of the pump.

Looking at the back of the pump, look at the top of the pump

If you want I can scan the whole page i took that from, but thats all you really need, the rest of it goes into the dismantling of the whole pump.

youl need to get the diaphram from toyota or a diesel place.

Thanks heaps mate.... hopefully this is the problem and it can all be fixed....

Really appreciate all your help guys.

Brighty.

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:45 pm**

my 13bt has been doing that for about 4-5 month and getting more I took it to diesel pump shop.They said injectors or diaphram so i started using an injector cleaner and it's now idling smoother.It was noticeable straight away as iam just running my 1st tank empty.It from supercheap it was the only one in a 1l bottle with a little measuring cup built in.

Posted: **Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:39 pm**

brighty wrote:
Shadow wrote:
brighty wrote: Sixty,
Maybe you can help with the diaphram part of things????
governor diaphram is located under a cover at the back of the pump.

Looking at the back of the pump, look at the top of the pump

If you want I can scan the whole page i took that from, but thats all you really need, the rest of it goes into the dismantling of the whole pump.

youl need to get the diaphram from toyota or a diesel place.
Thanks heaps mate.... hopefully this is the problem and it can all be fixed....

Really appreciate all your help guys.
Brighty.

I havent touched the diaphram on my engine, im just going of what ive been told and read (mostly on here) and from the toyota workshop manual.

So maybe wait for someone to reply whose actually done the job, they might have some tricks etc for ya.

Posted: **Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:58 pm**

OK, the diaphram is replaced... BUT..... didn't fix the black smoke problem.

I tried turning the pump down a turn, but lost power so figure I should leave it where it was and put back to original position.

I did however find that there was alot of oily build up in the intake housing where the throttle butterfly is.... the pipe from the rocker cover to the inlet manifold has a fair bit of oily residue in it too. So I decided to look a bit further and found that on the back 4 cylinders where the inlet manifold mates with the head.... there is slight seepage of oil there also.... which leads me to believe that I have a problem up top somewhere.

I will again be checking the valve clearances this Sunday just to double check myself... but what else could be causing the problem??? I only just done a full service on the ol girl not 3000km ago.... oil, air & fuel filters... dropped the coolant and re done, g'box & diff oils checked etc

And I think I said before that the pump and injectors were done when I rebuilt the engine about 40 000km ago.......

Help.... PLZZZZZZZZZ

Posted: **Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:25 pm**

just been through this issue with my 3b.. and sorted it (reco'd injectors and replaced governor diaphram)..

i found that the Edic was set to overfuel all the time.. so instead of on startup it overfueling and then going to the drive position, it was always in the overfuel position..replacing edic motors didnt work (i had a spare) so I trimmed the length of the rod..so when it was on it wasn't set to overfuel.

one test you could do is disconnect the control rod (the rod on the edic) from the injector pump .. and go for a drive with no control arm on, you wont be able to stop your engine by turning the key, you will need to push the edic into the stop position manually. this should tell you if your edic is causing the problems.. or if the problem is elsewhere..

hope this helps..

Posted: **Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:51 pm**

brighty wrote:OK, the diaphram is replaced... BUT..... didn't fix the black smoke problem.

I tried turning the pump down a turn, but lost power so figure I should leave it where it was and put back to original position.

I did however find that there was alot of oily build up in the intake housing where the throttle butterfly is.... the pipe from the rocker cover to the inlet manifold has a fair bit of oily residue in it too. So I decided to look a bit further and found that on the back 4 cylinders where the inlet manifold mates with the head.... there is slight seepage of oil there also.... which leads me to believe that I have a problem up top somewhere.

I will again be checking the valve clearances this Sunday just to double check myself... but what else could be causing the problem??? I only just done a full service on the ol girl not 3000km ago.... oil, air & fuel filters... dropped the coolant and re done, g'box & diff oils checked etc

And I think I said before that the pump and injectors were done when I rebuilt the engine about 40 000km ago.......

Help.... PLZZZZZZZZZ

when you did the tappets, did you check the face of the rocker for wear?
I found that the valve stem had worn into the face of the rocker, so when I did the adjustment it was actually double what it should have been. Valves werent opening fully, only half the air being drawn in essentially overfueling the engine and resulting black smoke.

Posted: **Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:35 pm**

Sixty wrote:
brighty wrote:OK, the diaphram is replaced... BUT..... didn't fix the black smoke problem.

I tried turning the pump down a turn, but lost power so figure I should leave it where it was and put back to original position.

I did however find that there was alot of oily build up in the intake housing where the throttle butterfly is.... the pipe from the rocker cover to the inlet manifold has a fair bit of oily residue in it too. So I decided to look a bit further and found that on the back 4 cylinders where the inlet manifold mates with the head.... there is slight seepage of oil there also.... which leads me to believe that I have a problem up top somewhere.

I will again be checking the valve clearances this Sunday just to double check myself... but what else could be causing the problem??? I only just done a full service on the ol girl not 3000km ago.... oil, air & fuel filters... dropped the coolant and re done, g'box & diff oils checked etc

And I think I said before that the pump and injectors were done when I rebuilt the engine about 40 000km ago.......

Help.... PLZZZZZZZZZ
when you did the tappets, did you check the face of the rocker for wear?
I found that the valve stem had worn into the face of the rocker, so when I did the adjustment it was actually double what it should have been. Valves werent opening fully, only half the air being drawn in essentially overfueling the engine and resulting black smoke.

Sixty,

Can you please explain this in more detail so I know what to be looking for???? I have an idea, but just need a bit better explaination...

Cheers mate.

Posted: **Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:59 pm**

The tapets are case hardened but this hardening eventually wears off and the tapets end up indented so if you use a feeler guage to adjust the tapet, you bridge this hollow point, and make a setting asif the tapet was in good condition.

Then when the engine is running the valve actually goes up into the hollowed section of the tappet face and the valve doesnt open as much as it should.

To verify this as a problem youd probably need to pull the rockers off.

Posted: **Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:01 pm**

Shadow wrote:The tapets are case hardened but this hardening eventually wears off and the tapets end up indented so if you use a feeler guage to adjust the tapet, you bridge this hollow point, and make a setting asif the tapet was in good condition.

Then when the engine is running the valve actually goes up into the hollowed section of the tappet face and the valve doesnt open as much as it should.

To verify this as a problem youd probably need to pull the rockers off.

What is the best way to check if it is hollowed??? I presume it will be something that you won't just be able to check just by eye sight???

Posted: **Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:21 pm**

Thanks Shadow

Brighty - I loosened the rocker all the way off and tipped it back enough to use a scriber (or something with a hook on the end) to 'feel' if there was an indentation in the rocker arm (it should be smoooooth).
Most reco places can grind the face flat again or the expensive way is to buy new....

Or you can be lazy and 'judge' the depth of the indentation and take it into consideration when you do the adjustment.....mine was an old motor -tight budget -cheap and dodgy fix -

Posted: **Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:28 pm**

Sixty wrote:Thanks Shadow

Brighty - I loosened the rocker all the way off and tipped it back enough to use a scriber (or something with a hook on the end) to 'feel' if there was an indentation in the rocker arm (it should be smoooooth).
Most reco places can grind the face flat again or the expensive way is to buy new....

Or you can be lazy and 'judge' the depth of the indentation and take it into consideration when you do the adjustment.....mine was an old motor -tight budget -cheap and dodgy fix -

Id say the only way to fix the problem is to buy new, as if you grind them flat they will no longer have thier hardening and they will wear again much more rapidly. It might fix it for 50 thousand i would guess, but certainly no more than 100K.

I think i heard around the traps that new tappets is up around the $600 mark from toyota.

Posted: **Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:38 pm**

Shadow wrote:
Sixty wrote:Thanks Shadow

Brighty - I loosened the rocker all the way off and tipped it back enough to use a scriber (or something with a hook on the end) to 'feel' if there was an indentation in the rocker arm (it should be smoooooth).
Most reco places can grind the face flat again or the expensive way is to buy new....

Or you can be lazy and 'judge' the depth of the indentation and take it into consideration when you do the adjustment.....mine was an old motor -tight budget -cheap and dodgy fix -
Id say the only way to fix the problem is to buy new, as if you grind them flat they will no longer have thier hardening and they will wear again much more rapidly. It might fix it for 50 thousand i would guess, but certainly no more than 100K.

I think i heard around the traps that new tappets is up around the $600 mark from toyota.

There are the odd place that will weld then grind them back as well.

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:10 am**

Thanks boys, I'l give this a crack on the weekend and see how we go.

I'll keep ya posted.

Brighty.

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

2h injector pump adjustment????

2h injector pump adjustment????