sierra diesel and lifts?

[4WD WOG]

hey guys,

just wondering if there are any small diesel or turbo diesel engines that would fit straight into a sierra and also is it possible to buy a 4" spring lift for 1???

thanks

[Tiny]

hey guys,

just wondering if there are any small diesel or turbo diesel engines that would fit straight into a sierra and also is it possible to buy a 4" spring lift for 1???

thanks

talk to cap51z he has a gemini?? deisel, was turboed, NA atm

[nicbeer]

4" spring would ride like bricks as springs, what size tyres are u thinking of. 2" spring and 2" body would be better.

[4WD WOG]

i would like 2 go 4 31's, with a centepide tread prob a mongrel

[lay80n]

i would like 2 go 4 31's, with a centepide tread prob a mongrel

Then why the 4 inch lift ??? 2 inch springs, mild Body lift (if you want) and some guard modifications. Bump stop spacers and your away.

Layto....

[4WD WOG]

because if i decide to go bigger in the future i can just put a body lift in... all i want 2 know is if you can get a 4" leaf spring lift for a sierra, i dont know that much about sierras or leafs cause i just came from a coil GQ

[nicbeer]

Illegal as well as in qld.

But custom i think only, not a std issue mainly cause of legal and ride issues

[lay80n]

because if i decide to go bigger in the future i can just put a body lift in... all i want 2 know is if you can get a 4" leaf spring lift for a sierra, i dont know that much about sierras or leafs cause i just came from a coil GQ

Short answer - Yes.

Long answer - Hell no. They will ride like crap, and have no flex. While you can, i would strongly recomend not. 3 inch is terrible, let alone 4. Stick with a 2 inch spring, and maybe a 2 inch body. Or just 2 inch spring and guard/bumpstop mods. Or SPOA if you feel adventurous.

OR

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?t=48714


Layto....

[Goatse.AJ]

Used to be a few fellas running Gemini deisels (or in the process of the engine swap), haven't heard much about any of 'em for quite a while though.

[toysuzi]

gday 4x4 hows it going ??

the gemini diesel would produce around 45kw naturally aspirated
from memery.

thay make a conversion kit for the VW GOLF 1.6l & 1.9l diesel in the states to suit sierra.


1.6litre diesel unknown engine specs

1.9litre turbo diesel 77kw -- 250nm

2.0litre turbo diesel 103kw -- 360nm

but i wouldnt go with a diesel if your looking at fitting reduction gears to the transfer case.

cheers daryl

[Gwagensteve]

Ahhhh the Diesel idea raises its head again.

All due respect 4WD ethnic person, but you are coming from a GQ - the "normal" rules about what works for a 4WD don't apply to a sierra. I have run Hiluxes, my Gwagen with 36's and stuff so I understand what has to be done to make a big 4WD work, and I am big fan of Diesels, but they just don't work that well in a sierra.

Sierras are best kept light, low and agile. There are not really any viable diesel conversions available. I have heard of all sorts of ideas and seen a really well done Gemini conversion, but doe to a number of factors, that car has been converted back to 1.3 petrol.

Sierras are far happier with a light revvy motor than a diesel. One of best engine swaps into a sierra is a 660cc turbo, far that very reason. With a diesel, you have to start building them to chug over everything, and due to the light weight and very short wheelbase, they don't really want to do this. There are a heap of other issues related to weight balance, cruising speed and gearing, but the whole character of the motor is just wrong for a sierra.

In relation to 4" springs - Bad idea. Even 3" lift springs are too tall. All of the travel is in compression and with a light car it makes the ride hideous and the stability off road appalling. Taller springs never allow you to fit a bigger tyre unless you space the bumpstops. IMHO the easiest way to run a 31 is with a 2" body lift (31's will fit with stock suspension), but if that is a legality problem, then run 2" springs and keep playing with bumpstop spacers and trimming/hammering until they clear.

Just my 2C worth. Many years ago I wanted to build a diesel sierra, but my next project is a 660 turbo.

Steve.

[4WD WOG]

thanks 4 the ideas guys, i think i will can the diesel idea, was just throwing a few ideas around... ive heard if you put the rear springs in the front and get 2" for the back this goes farely well?

also who knows anything about drop shackles? whats a good size? does it help travel? and are there different types of them?

[Gwagensteve]

Rears up front work really well, and is probably the best single suspension modification you can do to a sierra, but to do it neatly is a lot of work.

RUF adds about 4" of droop, brings the balance point of car forward so it doesn't follow the rear anymore, pulls the front axle forward 40mm to fit bigger tyres in around the firewall, and makes the car ride better as the springs have a slower resonant frequency, as they are longer. (i.e they bounce slower) On its own, RUF also adds a little bit of lift.

Ususally, it involves a small chassis extension as the springs are 3" longer. The actual extension you need is smaller than this, and the last two I built were about 60mm, but you might be able to go as small as 40mm.

The bumpstops need to be cut off and moved forward, as do the shock mounts and the brake line brackets. (This diff will wipe out the brakeline brackets on full compression in its new location.)

Obviously, you will need longer shocks (I use OME N76, but Rancho 99112's also work) longer shock mounts, generally bumpstop spacers depending on the tyre size you want to run, wheel offset and how much you want to cut, and longer front driveshaft. The ideal shaft is from the front of a coil sierra as these are just the right length.

There are other ways of doing it, you can redrill the spring mount on the chassis to only give 20mm or so of wheelbase extension, this means you don't have to do as much work on the chassis extension and moving everything, but you won't get the full advantage of RUF.

A few cars here in victoria have been engineer approved with extensions in them so it can be done legally, but QLD is a bit of another story.

As for drop shackles, they are a terrible idea. Often unreliable, they only result in lots of uncontrolled travel which looks cool in photos but does next to nothing to improve the capability of the car. The car flops around, axle tramp becomes an issue, they are hard on springs (depending on the design) on side angles and on steep decents they can be really spooky

They are also heaps of work to fit, as shock lengths, brake lines driveshaft slip lengths and angles, tyre clearance etc all gets affected by these "simple bolt on" parts.

Some club members tried them, and no one here in vic still runs them.

Really, you can get all the travel you could want (except for posing on a ramp) without them.

Steve.

[MUD-PIGSIERRA]

A mate of mine is currently running what you may call the drop shackles which use a pin that allows the shackle to extend even further for more flex, these shackles wont specifically give you more lift to clear tires but will give more flex. IF you went with maybe extended shackles which are a few inches longer this will help with a tiny bit more lift.

Drop shackles on rear and RUF Sierra.

[4WD WOG]

A mate of mine is currently running what you may call the drop shackles which use a pin that allows the shackle to extend even further for more flex, these shackles wont specifically give you more lift to clear tires but will give more flex. IF you went with maybe extended shackles which are a few inches longer this will help with a tiny bit more lift.

Drop shackles on rear and RUF Sierra.

thats what i want mine to look like. do u have the specs on it, how much lift etc???

[MUD-PIGSIERRA]

2inch BL

If look closely you might see it has had a bit of a chop to get rid of some rust it had along the bottom of the Doors which also help when out wheeling with clearance.

Locked front and back
Ser3 Rockhoppers
31"swampers

Dakar springs rear and RUF
Climax shackles rear
RTI was 968 roughly on 20deg Ramp

[4WD WOG]

2inch BL

If look closely you might see it has had a bit of a chop to get rid of some rust it had along the bottom of the Doors which also help when out wheeling with clearance.

Locked front and back
Ser3 Rockhoppers
31"swampers

Dakar springs rear and RUF
Climax shackles rear
RTI was 968 roughly on 20deg Ramp

was there any modification in the RUF needed? like suggested above with the chassis extension, shock mounts and bump stops?

[Gwagensteve]

Thats a really nice car MUD-PIGSIERRA, please don't think these are criticisms, only comments.

Do you know why the bumpstop was removed on the rear?

Also, I think the drop shackles might be costing this car some balance. This is a very typical photo of a drop shackle car - the rear is flexing quite well but the front is not working as hard as the RUF cars I have built.

With rear bumpstops brought in under the chassis rather than in the stock WT position and conventional shackles, A) that front tyre would be well up into the guard and B) The body would be sitting much more level making the car more stable.

Would a rear tyre be in the air? Maybe... Maybe not. The leverage of the bumpstop on the compressed side will make the drooped spring fan open under heavy articulation and I think overall travel would be very close. I would expect though that the body would be seeing maybe 10 degrees less side angle which would make that climb no feel like an obstacle at all - the car will just swallow it up.

Sure, with the drop shackles, the tyre is on the ground, but I bet that that tyre has almost no weight on it - you could easily lift that tyre off the ground. That being the case, It is adding very little to the cars traction at all, so there is really no advantage to having those couple of inches of uncontrolled droop

Like I said MUD-PIGSIERRA, I am not dissing that car at all, but it does raise some points for discussion.

Steve.

[4WD WOG]

without drop shackles that car might not have had the clearance to get up there in the 1st place... so why do so many ppl run them if you think they are a waste of time?

[lay80n]

without drop shackles that car might not have had the clearance to get up there in the 1st place... so why do so many ppl run them if you think they are a waste of time?

How do you mean clearance?? What would a slightly longer rear shackle have done to aided a small climb up a creek bank??

Lots of people put them on thinking that they make their car more capable cause hey get more flex. As steve said, in reality they just let a wheel flop down with no weight, therefore no real traction. The negatives IMHO (and many others). Also as mentioned they do not force the front suspension to work, as they require no force to flop open they let the vehicle get to larger angles than nessasary. Have a search through the zook section, and look in the bible. Many people have had experience with them, and the general opinion was there crap. I have seen quite a few sierra's set up like Steve has suggested, as well as a few with flop shackles. There isnt really much difference in flex, and the extra droop that the flop shakles gave was useless because there was no downward force on the sheel, so it just spun anyway.

Layto...

[grimbo]

without drop shackles that car might not have had the clearance to get up there in the 1st place... so why do so many ppl run them if you think they are a waste of time?

so many people don't run them. You will find many many more people not running them for all the reasons mentioned above. We literally watched a set of those destroy some springs on a Sierra in one day. Well setup suspension systems will perform so much better in more situations than drop shackles do or will

[MUD-PIGSIERRA]

Points taken and noted as I said its not my 4by its a good mate of mine he got them too try them out. So far he seems too think they work okay.

I am however running a 3/4 eleptic rear and for the extra down flex I get with it I rarely pull the pins out as Im locked front and back so a wheel up doesnt hurt too much as I know the others will keep driving. But I am also SPOA and sofar we go both practically do what each other can do out on tracks. Both locked front and back and crawler gears.

My theory on the live axle is if there is something pushing the other tire up in to the guard then it is pushing the other wheel too the ground aswell to a certain point. As for the rear bump stops not In place Im not sure, the front diff I believe was moved forwards slightly to give a little more clearance at the back end of the guard.

[lay80n]

Points taken and noted as I said its not my 4by its a good mate of mine he got them too try them out. So far he seems too think they work okay.

I am however running a 3/4 eleptic rear and for the extra down flex I get with it I rarely pull the pins out as Im locked front and back so a wheel up doesnt hurt too much as I know the others will keep driving. But I am also SPOA and sofar we go both practically do what each other can do out on tracks. Both locked front and back and crawler gears.

My theory on the live axle is if there is something pushing the other tire up in to the guard then it is pushing the other wheel too the ground aswell to a certain point. As for the rear bump stops not In place Im not sure, the front diff I believe was moved forwards slightly to give a little more clearance at the back end of the guard.

IMHO the 3/4 eliptic suspensionis a much better option than flop shackles, as the upper leaf/leaves provides control over the droop, as oposed to just flopping open like the shackles can.

Layto....

[4WD WOG]

ok guys so all in all what is the best setup for a sierra with 31's that will be used for advanced 4wding?

[MUD-PIGSIERRA]

Try out a quality 2" lift kit and body lift and maybe some extended shackles to start with, you can always go spring over later and use the same gear, just build it up as too the way your terrain takes you or too the lack of terrain your suzuki might not take you.