Rover 3.5 EFI conversion

[muddydigger]

Have you got the expasion tank? if so, that should be the same diameter, i would try to plumb in to that. You should have teo pipe inlets at the top of the radiator.

[chimpboy]

Hmm, the coolant is flowing out of it with a fair bit of pressure though; I didn't think that the expansion tank (well, it's an overflow bottle in my case) was really meant to have coolant going into it directly at pressure. Am I wrong on this?

I had another idea though, I have a blanked off pipe on top of the water pump; I could connect that instead. The pressure differential might not be exactly right but it should still circulate a bit of coolant under the throttle body (heck it can't be that important there anyway) and keep it from leaking.

I'll have pics in an hour or so, waiting for Ana to get them off the camera.

Thanks a lot for the diagrams, they really are helpful!

[muddydigger]

Rover engines coolant is pressuerised. Its desighned to prevent premature boiling and to reach operating temp as soon as possible. so Yes it is pressurised at the expansion tank.

[chimpboy]

Rover engines coolant is pressuerised. Its desighned to prevent premature boiling and to reach operating temp as soon as possible. so Yes it is pressurised at the expansion tank.

Well, I'll try it with a "tee" at the expansion tank pipe, it's definitely a much easier option so it's worth giving it a go.

There is a pressure cap on the expansion tank but it's just a plastic bottle, I can't help wondering if it can handle it or it will just crack under pressure

[shakes]

the rover ones are under pressure, they are a steel tank with a radiator cap... not the plastic one that you have jas.

[Philip A]

You do not need the pipes to the throttle body. they are for cold countries like UK to stop icing. I have disconnected the ones on my Thor and have had no icing problem. Just stick a stub with siliconed self tapper in the manifold outlet.
Just be aware that the T piece on the crankcase vent has a restrictor in it so that there is only a pinhole going to the small hose to the Plenum. Graeme Cooper sells the correct T piece in steel rather than the original plastic. It will never idle slowly, if you use a normal T piece.
Regards Philip A

[chimpboy]

All hooked up!

I wish I'd read Philip's post about blocking off the throttle body pipes this morning, because it was really hard finding a way to run a 10mm ID hose onto the 25mm pipe on top of the water pump!

That's what I've done though, and hey, I live in the hills, it gets pretty cold here sometimes

Started it up and could not get it to idle, then it occurred to me that I should not just leave all those vacuum pipes disconnected

Blanked off the vacuum and/or connected it all up, and it idles very nicely at about 800rpm. A bit lumpy but I think that's just the kind of engine it is.

And it sounds very nice with a bit of revving. So the EFI conversion is DEFINITELY a big improvement over the carby, at least the carby that was on there.

I will still have a few questions about minor things I need to hook up but for the moment the conversion is a success!

Thanks again for the help, and thanks to Shake for the gear; I am VERY happy with how this has turned out.

[chimpboy]

Couple of other questions, the tiny breather on the very top of the plenum, near the throttle body mechanism, where does that hook to?

[RUFF]

Couple of other questions, the tiny breather on the very top of the plenum, near the throttle body mechanism, where does that hook to?

Vacume Advance on the Dizzy.

[nottie]

You havent buggered the firing order have you?

[chimpboy]

You havent buggered the firing order have you?

Dunno! I have checked and rechecked and it looks right.

Battery's pretty flat now, so I am going to chill for a bit and revisit it after a bit of a recharge (of the battery and my brain.)

Sometimes it's better to just walk off and come back later; maybe I've forgotten something simple.

Anyway here's a couple of photos.

Before, with carby:



After, with EFI:





And, the car itself:





Anyone want to buy a Holley carby on a Rover V8 manifold?

[muddydigger]

Well done looks sweet. Might see about putting Efi on my Rover. Ill have to see how much I can get a kit for.

[Philip A]

god stuff.
You should really put the Rover oil seperator in the hole in the RH rocker cover. It screws in.

And place the MAF flat (ie black plastic) side up. This places the sensor/sampler on the inside of the bend, and is the correct orientation. It does make a difference, especially off idle.
The vent at the rear of the LH rocker should have a little air filter on it. It definitely should NOT go to the vacuum side of the manifold. it is the air inlet to the engine on an injection engine. You have carby rocker covers , and there will be an inlet at the back with a little air filter. BUT injection has the inlet where you have the pipe to the RH of the plenum.
Block both ends off and you will be OK.
Its a wonder you can get the idle down with that on!!!!!
Regards Philip A

[chimpboy]

god stuff.
You should really put the Rover oil seperator in the hole in the RH rocker cover. It screws in.

And place the MAF flat (ie black plastic) side up. This places the sensor/sampler on the inside of the bend, and is the correct orientation. It does make a difference, especially off idle.
The vent at the rear of the LH rocker should have a little air filter on it. It definitely should NOT go to the vacuum side of the manifold. it is the air inlet to the engine on an injection engine. You have carby rocker covers , and there will be an inlet at the back with a little air filter. BUT injection has the inlet where you have the pipe to the RH of the plenum.
Block both ends off and you will be OK.
Its a wonder you can get the idle down with that on!!!!!
Regards Philip A

Excellent, thanks for the info once again.

When you say "block both ends off", do you mean block off the spare vacuum pipe and block off the vent on the rear of the LH rocker cover?

[Philip A]

On second thought they are injection rocker covers.

But what I said still goes. Check if there is an air inlet at the back between the V. If it is there it will have a filter on it.

If not you must have the LH rocker cover inlet open to air, through a filter.


You can choose where the inlet goes .

One vent from the RH rocker cover is all Injection motors have so either seal or put a filter on it. BUT REMOVE IT FROM THE PLENUM.
Injection motors also have the dipstick sealed by an O ring.
Regards Philip A

[chimpboy]

One vent from the RH rocker cover is all Injection motors have so either seal or put a filter on it. BUT REMOVE IT FROM THE PLENUM.

Done!

Situation now is, I had it running nicely yesterday, but the timing was a bit jumpy. Took off the dist. cap and the rotor had a lot of play in it, not just the advance but some movement in the anticlockwise direction beyond the non-advanced position.

I pulled out the distributor to take a look at it and it looked like it was just the rotor that had the extra play, as the "key" inside was a bit chewed up.

So, this morning I grabbed a new rotor and distributor cover, put them on, and now to save my life I can't even get the thing to start.

I am not 100% sure whether I altered anything else in between or not, but I have clearly messed up the timing and/or something else.

It is now at a point where it cranks over, but when it should "grab" and start running, it actually forcefully stops, as if the ignition is actually making the engine stop instead of making it go.

The battery's pretty flat at the moment so that could be contributing in some way.

Anyway I am not sure what to do, I was really chuffed yesterday and today it's all just stuffed up

So it sits on the battery charger for now.

[muddydigger]

One vent from the RH rocker cover is all Injection motors have so either seal or put a filter on it. BUT REMOVE IT FROM THE PLENUM.

Done!

Situation now is, I had it running nicely yesterday, but the timing was a bit jumpy. Took off the dist. cap and the rotor had a lot of play in it, not just the advance but some movement in the anticlockwise direction beyond the non-advanced position.

I pulled out the distributor to take a look at it and it looked like it was just the rotor that had the extra play.

So, this morning I grabbed a new rotor and distributor cover, put them on, and now to save my life I can't even get the thing to start.

I have clearly messed up the timing and/or something else.

It is now at a point where it cranks over, but when it should "grab" and start running, it actually forcefully stops, as if the ignition is actually making the engine stop instead of making it go.

The battery's pretty flat at the moment so that could be contributing in various ways.

Anyway I am not sure what to do, I was really chuffed yesterday and today it's all just stuffed up

I would say you had to pull the cap off witha a fair bit of pressure. The dizzy shaft has two weighs on it that are reatianed by two springs. As the dizzy spins it forces the weights out. I would say that either of the springs is disconected or broken and one or both the weights are stopping the shaft going down to the full in possition.
check you have definatley got all the leads on it the right order. if in doubt pull all all off and do it again.

[Philip A]

Sounds like you may have done the classic , "break the little clip above the centrifugal advance" trick.
Did you have to pull hard on the rotor to get it off? If so you may have broken the clip, or it may already have been broken if the timing was erratic.
A tip I am sure you will now remember is to break the old rotor up to get it off if its stuck. I have never had mine apart as I knew this tip, so I cannot give you exact guidance. I am sure there was a thread quite a while ago about how to fix it and where to get the bit. ANYONE???

The dizzy may have to be dismantled to fix it.

Looking on the bright side, and assuming the dizzy is OK, it is pretty easy to time the dizzy 180 degrees out. Find no1 TDC front cylinder on passenger side, and turn the engine over with your thumb in the plugole to find no1 firing TDC.. make sure that the rotor arm points at the appropriate wire in the cap. When you reinsert the dizzy its easy to have the rotor one cog out also at it skews in.

Check that you have the firing order correct in the correct direction.

Lastly, there is often a problem with non genuine rotors. they can be no good from new. I always bite the bullet and buy genuine rotors and dizzy caps.
Regards Philip A

[chimpboy]

Christ, I thought I had left these kinds of distributor issues behind when I sold my XJ-S a few years ago.

What was I thinking buying English junk again... hrmm.



Well, the timing was definitely erratic before I started, jumping as much as a centimetre on the pulley right before my eyes.

I honestly don't recall whether I had to apply much force to the rotor to get it off or not. I didn't feel anything snap, but that doesn't mean much I guess.

Now if you are one tooth out when putting the distributor back into position, it isn't possible to seat it fully down is it? Because I assumed I was in the right spot (toothwise), based on the fact that I could fully seat the distributor against the engine block.

Is there a way I can check the condition of the centrifugal advance without dismantling the dizzy?

And, even if that were stuffed, I still should at least be able to get it to idle shouldn't I?

[muddydigger]

Christ, I thought I had left these kinds of distributor issues behind when I sold my XJ-S a few years ago.

What was I thinking buying English junk again... hrmm.



Well, the timing was definitely erratic before I started, jumping as much as a centimetre on the pulley right before my eyes.

I honestly don't recall whether I had to apply much force to the rotor to get it off or not. I didn't feel anything snap, but that doesn't mean much I guess.

Now if you are one tooth out when putting the distributor back into position, it isn't possible to seat it fully down is it? Because I assumed I was in the right spot (toothwise), based on the fact that I could fully seat the distributor against the engine block.

Is there a way I can check the condition of the centrifugal advance without dismantling the dizzy?

And, even if that were stuffed, I still should at least be able to get it to idle shouldn't I?

If what I think has happened then no it wont start the dizzy wont operater and may well be jambed up. ill try to find an exploded view.
Its not to difficult to pull apart.
This is purley from memory and its a while scince I did it.
mark the dizzy body wher it goes in the engine with a white marker so when you put it back in its roughly lined up.

next remove the cover so that you can note the rotors position. if you can mark the position by scribing a mark on the dizzy caseing.
remove the clamp and pull ou the dizzy.
Depending on type you may have to remove any electronic ignition.
There should be 3 retaining screws holding assembly in, youl have to remove them. At te bottom of the shaft the gear is retained by a grubb screw. take it out so the shaft can be pulled out. you should be able to nw carfull remove the assembly.

You should see the weights and they are retained by springs. If the springs arent there it just flap about .
the springs need to be put in and they will keep the weights in.
so put em in and reassemble ensuring the weights do not foul the shaft going in.

As i said its from memeory I may have forgoton something so give me a pm if something doesnt seem right.

[chimpboy]

Check that you have the firing order correct in the correct direction.

Just in case I have made a reall nuff nuff error, what is the correct order and the correct direction?

[chimpboy]

If what I think has happened then no it wont start the dizzy wont operater and may well be jambed up. ill try to find an exploded view.
Its not to difficult to pull apart.
This is purley from memory and its a while scince I did it.
mark the dizzy body wher it goes in the engine with a white marker so when you put it back in its roughly lined up.

next remove the cover so that you can note the rotors position. if you can mark the position by scribing a mark on the dizzy caseing.
remove the clamp and pull ou the dizzy.
Depending on type you may have to remove any electronic ignition.
There should be 3 retaining screws holding assembly in, youl have to remove them. At te bottom of the shaft the gear is retained by a grubb screw. take it out so the shaft can be pulled out. you should be able to nw carfull remove the assembly.

You should see the weights and they are retained by springs. If the springs arent there it just flap about .
the springs need to be put in and they will keep the weights in.
so put em in and reassemble ensuring the weights do not foul the shaft going in.

As i said its from memeory I may have forgoton something so give me a pm if something doesnt seem right.

Thanks.

I honestly don't know what I did but it is pretty clear that the timing is now massively out.... not just a little bit. So rather than try and backtrack, I am not going to try to match the old timing, just gonna act as if i found the dizzy on the floor and had to set it up fresh.

[Loanrangie]

So now the efi is running you just need to ditch that bonnet and give it a nice coat of paint and cruise.

[chimpboy]

So now the efi is running you just need to ditch that bonnet and give it a nice coat of paint and cruise.

That is the theory, except that "cruise" doesn't sound fast enough

[chimpboy]

I honestly don't know what I did but it is pretty clear that the timing is now massively out.... not just a little bit. So rather than try and backtrack, I am not going to try to match the old timing, just gonna act as if i found the dizzy on the floor and had to set it up fresh.

Nothing like a good night's sleep eh?

It was way advanced due to my having put the dizzy back on a tooth or two out. I just took it out and put it back in again with the rotor about 50 degrees back, so the dizzy is in the area with the most room for timing adjustment.

Still haven't adjusted the timing but it started first go anyway.

What a dope I am, I thought that I had lined the dizzy up okay because the oil pump driving bit lined up.

Geez, I feel a bit stupid. Anyway, I just got to listen to that nice V8 sound again, now I can do the timing right this time.

[nottie]

muddydigger
I have a complete 89/90 3.5 sitting here with the full injection on it if you are keen for the injection like stated above
Only prob is the motor has a shit valve in it.

[muddydigger]

muddydigger
I have a complete 89/90 3.5 sitting here with the full injection on it if you are keen for the injection like stated above
Only prob is the motor has a shit valve in it.

how much?

[nottie]

So chimpboy any updates on how everything has turned out on the convertion?

[chimpboy]

It's all running really nicely!

I am pretty sure I need to change the final drive ratio, it has a 3.7:1 diff in it and I am just trying to suss out whether I can put in a 3.46:1 from a saloon. It just revs more than it needs to at any given speed. But I am going to drive it a bit first and see how it goes, and decide after.

Other than that I am now just working on the paint, which is really bad... and contemplating fitting some air con out of a zuk in the next week or two.

But the efi swap itself... awesome, highly recommended! Other than brain fart by me with the distributor, it was really easy considering the benefits. The improved starting, first turn of the key with no choke to stuff around with, this alone justifies it.

[nottie]

Awsome Buddy
Keep us up to date as things progrese. Good to see someone fixing up somethn diffrent.