Supercharger on v6 3.0 mitsu motor

[WTF]

hey guys,

im getting my supra back soon, and figured i might do something silly to my pajero while i dont need it.

was considering jamming a SC14 (1ggze toyota supercharger) onto it to make a conservative 5 odd psi, i guessed the injectors would be up tot he job, but im not experienced with mitsu motors and am unsure how the factory ecum and intake plenum etc seals would cope with the setup. Obviously the AFM and such wouldnt be impressed.

anyone done it, if so can anyone tell me logistically how difficult it is for a "cheap" job to do?

thanks

mark

[FrankR]

Hi Mark,

Yes, I've done it.... sorta.....and in the process, I've managed to blow up a freshly rebuilt 3.0L.

Here's a picture:


Here's the design/build thread on 4x4wire:

http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showflat. ... art=1&vc=1

IMO, the Achilles Heel on the Gen1 3.0L is the fuel system - particularly the fuel rail. I suspect the crossover pipe is inadequate to flow enough fuel to the last cylinders. The fuel pump may also be questionable - particularly when used with an FMU and asked to pump adequate flow at a higher than stock pressure. The fuel lines from the tank may also be of insufficient size to carry enough fuel forward.

I pushed my Magnacharger MP-62 (Eaton rotors) to only 6psi, but found detonation when used with the FMU, 240cc/min injectors and no intercooler - OE 8.9:1 CR and the OE ECU.

I will say that the 3.0L responds very well to a blower and it was sure fun while it lasted... 6psi turns a 3.0L SWB into a nasty animal.

And yes, I'm planning to begin the second version soon. From lessons learned and added precautions, I'll use 325cc/min injectors, stock/constant fuel pressure with a 1:1 regulator, a larger fuel pump, larger fuel supply lines, a dual-feed fuel rail and a MegaSquirt ECU.

I would encourage you to try it, but caution you that it can't be done on the cheap, and you may not be able to fit the Toyota unit at all.

Good luck, and let me know if I can help.

Frank

[blown26paj]

i have a confession to make the last 3-4 months we myself and pajmoney box have been in the process of supercharging 3 of these suckers one is running ok it has an inject programable computer running on a base map and it does run. The blower is being rebuilt at this stage so it has not been dynoed at this stage. The second car same set up only to running a ems ecu.The third to be confirmed.We have imported the eaton m62s of the nissan exterra from the usa and also a manifold to suit. The manifold was then modified and then made into a mould so we could cast manifolds to be usable with a modified paj manifold.all three cars being two nh swb and one nc swb all have a two inch body lift and the sc fits under the bonnet but a tight for hight.The fuel rail has been modified from two standard rails for two reasons 1st to clear the manifold we replaced the rhs with a lhs this gets rid of the pressure reg,the second reason is to give us a duel feed as frank suggested and a malpassi rising rate fuel reg a the end were the two rails meet.The problem is by the time fuel gets to no 6 its the last injector and can run lean.We were going to post a thread on this once bugs were sorted. p.s might have to change my name soon to blown30paj

[-Scott-]

The manifold was then modified and then made into a mould so we could cast manifolds to be usable with a modified paj manifold.

Damn! How much money am I gonna need to find?

We were going to post a thread on this once bugs were sorted.

Well? Stop wasting time on the computer! Go sort out the bugs!

[blown26paj]

thought id get your attention scott i am now an offically self confessed boost junkie cannot do without it I TRIED

[WTF]

yeah im interested on a price for a kit?

i assume an aftermarket ecu is a must?

mark

[FrankR]

i assume an aftermarket ecu is a must?

I didn't think so if a rising rate regulator (FMU) was used. That lets you use the OE MAF and ECU, but I can't say for certain it would have been ok even if the fuel rail issue was corrected. The OE ECU ignition map on '89 US models runs from a low of 15*BTDC (under load) to 40*BTDC (no load-coast) at cruise throttle - seemed ok to me.

I haven't yet pulled my engine to see the damage, but the sump is being pressurized and I expect to find a blown piston on #6 from a lean condition as stated.

Since I don't want to build another engine and blow it again, I'll make the changes to correct areas of concern that while maybe ok, are still questionable. I do think a programmable ECU with a MAP sensor reference, wideband o2 sensor and constant fuel pressure will help in proper tuning.

As for money, it's an expensive project - and one that takes quite a bit of time. When it's running at 6psi, it's worth it.

Frank

[corkhead]

once i get my money back from the family business ...... this is definately on the project list !

where abouts are you located blown26paj ?

[blown26paj]

ok i dont want to discourage anyone but there is no kit i can get more bowls made if anybody wants to play,you would need someone to alloy weld as well as someone who can mill surfaces,a lathe to set up a drive pulley.the 3 engines we have in our vehicles are different in the spacing of the aircon idler pulley department which has made the second set up sit forward about 10mm from the first prototype the 2nd & 3rd manifolds were made longer and fit better as we had no intentions of mass producing these we have set them up individually on a dummy engine the manifold could have been made as one piece however the expence is to get the mould right so we did it as a two peice using the lower part of the manifold as a riser and adjusting the top to suit bolting it into place before welding it together.the next stage is to build a belt adjusting system out of steel if you can use an oxy and a welder no probs.as we have not run one properly yet we do not know what boost ect we will get at this stage is 2.2-1 [frank may be able to assist me here ?] my location is 100km north of brisbane when it is sucessful i am happy to supply a bowl [maifold] and step by step instructions if this helps.you will need a programable ecu and as frank said its not a cheap project
approx $
blower del to aus $500
bowl $500
ecu new $1100
you will need a belt, idler pulleys,pressure reg how much can you do yourself, dyno tune ect.pajmoneybox will be the first to be dyno tuned as my blower is being rebuilt this should be in about 2 weeks we get the ecu on monday and his manifold back from machining next week until then its not worth making any more yet

[FrankR]

....we do not know what boost ect we will get at this stage is 2.2-1....

If you're saying the pulley ratio is 2.2:1 and if the crankshaft pulley is the same diameter as mine (5.75"), then I assume you have a 2.6" blower pulley. That should turn the blower 13,200 rpms at engine redline and give you 5-6psi boost pressure.

Some additional considerations:

1) fuel injectors - the stock injectors are 210cc/min and will require a considerable rise in fuel pressure to supply enough fuel for 200+ HP. I used 240cc/min injectors and set the regulator to 38psi (no-boost), rising to ~60psi maximum at 6psi.

2) fuel pump - may need to be replaced for a larger flow. I haven't been able to find a rating on the original pump and most Gen1 pumps are old and tired now anyway. As pressure goes up, flow rate goes down on fuel pumps.

3) fuel lines - may need to upgrade the lines between the tank and the engine.

4) fuel filter - don't know the flow rating, but it should be considered.

5) ignition timing - If you're using a standalone ECU with programmable ignition, you should be ok, but remember the CR is 8.9:1. With 6psi, the effective CR is much higher... 12.53:1 at sea level.

6) exhaust - old catalytic converters can be very restrictive and restrictions may exacerbate cylinder head temperature, leading to detonation. The engine needs a larger exhaust system - about 2.5" should be ok.

7) cooling system - not the best on these trucks, so it needs to be in top condition.

Frank

[constapa]

Well, i just finished a turbo conversion on my 2.6L. I know it's a different engine but the problems in these upgrades are the same...

Fuel pump: Flow and not pressure is that you need more. Pull of the fuel line from the fuel rail, send it somewere you can measure the volume, and turn the key. You should measure at least 2L/min. If you have it then no new pump, fuel lines etc. -and you keep the money

Malpassi regulator: you need one of these... 40psi is ok

Programmable ECU: YES, YES, YES! If you want a clean job and your engine running like stock, there is no other way. Put a MAP sensor too, because MAF sensors have problems at the high air flows of a supercharged engine.

Fuel rail: I really don't understand the problem with the fuel rail. I know quite a few cars with over 300hp and they run the stock rail. The guys above say that there is an issue with it and they changed it. Well, if you want peace of mind change it...

Injectors: 300cc is a must for 200+hp. If you buy used injectors clean them in a qualified shop and make a volumetric check because they must spray the same amount of gas! THIS IS IMPORTANT! You don't want to have an injector to inject less gas in a cylinder than the others (=blown piston)...

Ignition timing: When boost pressure increases, the advance timing must decrease. Moreover the compression ratio of 8.9:1 is a bit high so the advance timing map of a naturally aspirated engine may not be good (=high temperatures=blown engine). This the main reason that i hate the fuel managment units that work with the stock ECU. They are ok for a few hp gain but if you need more you just can't change the ignition timing map and you're dead... Stay away!

Wideband lamda (oxygen) sensor: you don't really want this. Your programmer will use this at ECU tuning (it's a perfect tool). After that it's not necessary. It's not a dragster car so save your money...

Exhaust: I have a 2.75" tube and it's perfect. 2" is a bit small. Low end torque will be ok.

AT last The Programmer: Make sure that he is a good one. Don't try to do it yourself! Always remember that the engines in most cases are blown up from bad tuning...

Cheers

[Mechz]

Why isn't anyone installing centrifugal SC units? Those look heaps easier to install than the roots based ones.

Is it just the advantage of the unit being really close to the throttle body?

[constapa]

Why isn't anyone installing centrifugal SC units? Those look heaps easier to install than the roots based ones.

Is it just the advantage of the unit being really close to the throttle body?

Yes, centrifungal units are better and this one is one of the best:
http://www.rotrex.com/

[FrankR]

"Better" is in the mind of the owner.

Centrifugal units are sometimes easier to install, but try finding a place to mount one on a Gen1 Montero/Raider/Pajero. At one time, I believe RIPP offered a unit that mounted outboard of the alternator. Centrifugal units build boost in the upper RPM range - and because of that are more like turbos in application of power. Centrifugal units don't create as much charge air heat as positive displacement units and as a result are more thermally efficient.

Eaton-based Roots units are a modified rotor design that is somewhere between a true Roots design and a twin-screw. They are great for trucks because they build boost below the curve and the power is available anytime manifold vacuum is dumped. The main disadvantage is the heat produced.

If you want upper RPM power, the centrifugal unit (or a turbo) is a good choice. If you want power across the board, the Eaton-based (or twin-screw) units are the generally accepted choices. As usual, there are trade-offs and few free lunches.

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