diff locks

Post by **maty** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:03 pm

looking for opions on automatic diff locks- detroit and lockrite any difference in method of operating? how does the lockrite compare to an airlocker? whats better a single air locker or twin lockrites?

Post by **MQ080** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:51 am

Horses for courses. Some like the idea of an automatic locker so they don't have to think about its operation/on/off, etc. Where as personally i like the arb set up cause it doesn't chirp your tyres when on road (switched off), therefore better for your drive train on the road, you can give things a go unlocked and see how much you really can't drive without them. Also have seen people try to make u-turns on wet muddy trails before (monty

) and cause they had an detroit it keept bringing his tail around (not disengaging) so he was going nowhere with each turn from steering lock to lock.

Also there have been other threads about the "strength" of Lokkas etc. ...my advice buy the arb, and you won't go wrong

Post by **Pesky Pete** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:34 am

Maty
I've got a lockrite in the front of my 80 series and agree that there can be the odd problem with auto lockers. While powering up a greasy, twisty hill one rainy day, the locker would not disengage on a greasy corner and I ended up clipping a rock on the bank causing yet another ding.

Other than on this occassion, I have not had any real problems with the Lock Rite. I have found it to be reliable, tough (Took five teeth of crownwheel and one of pinion and the Locker survived) and as can be seen from the above comment I do drive hard.

I am currently thinking about locking the rear of the 80 and am in two minds about auto or ARB. I think that in a rear diff application you really need to think about it, but for the fornt, an Auto is a real option.

Just my 20c Worth

Cheers

Pete

Post by **dumbdunce** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:37 pm

if you're building a budget rock toy then dive into the twin lockrights (or even weld/spool/minispool the rear and lockright the front) but if it's your daily driver you will likely soon get annoyed with the on-road antics of the lockright or even of the detroit.

the operating principle of the lockright and the detroit is similar, in that the faster moving wheel is allowed to freewheel when cornering, and otherwise the axle is locked. they differ in that the detroit separates the ramping action from the dog clutch into 2 separate mechanisms, and the detroit replaces the entire carrier with a much stronger unit. the lockright combines the ramping(ratcheting) and driving onto one set of clutch teeth, and only replaces the spider and side gears in your original carrier. the lockright relies on the original differential cross shaft to load the clutches, and it places a lot more stress on the cross shaft than it was designed for. break the cross shaft and at best you have a little bit of drive (like craling over flat ground), at worst no drive. lockrights for factory 4 pinion diffs are better but still not perfect.

air lockers or toyota cable/electric lockers are far superior, they are stronger than lockrights or even detroits, and even though more expensive in the first place the extra investment is worth every cent when you don't break them all the time - drivability, no extra tyre wear, driver selectable lockers are a win win win situation. you get what you pay for. and don't be afraid to haggle with ARB or wherever you are buying your airlockers, there is a little room to move on the price.

cheers

Brian

Post by **Monty** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:52 pm

you get use to the detroit on the road and dont notice it learn to drive with it but after breaking it and driving on an open diff i noticed the diffrence straight away in terms of comfort and not big bangs and shudders through the drive line when it decides to let out some of the tension. At the same time roundabouts in the wet with the detorit can be lots of fun. If you can go the arb lockers straight out and dont mess around with lockrites as so many reports of the breaking it aint worth the time

Post by **maty** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:25 pm

thanks heaps i think i ll go a air locker in the back and possibly a auto in the front is enough money... how are the front auto lockers on an IFS truck?

Post by **dumbdunce** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:06 am

I'd do it the other way - auto locker in back and air locker in front. auto lockers are a shocker on sidehill where traction is less than optimal - you can find yourself going downhill, sideways, fast. will also reduce your turning circle in 4WD on any surface, which is crap enough to start with with IFS.

cheers

Brian

Post by **zzzz** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:43 pm

dumbdunce wrote:air lockers or toyota cable/electric lockers are far superior, they are stronger than lockrights or even detroits, and even though more expensive in the first place the extra investment is worth every cent when you don't break them all the time - drivability, no extra tyre wear, driver selectable lockers are a win win win situation. you get what you pay for. and don't be afraid to haggle with ARB or wherever you are buying your airlockers, there is a little room to move on the price.

cheers

Brian

Care to back up the strength claims? Be interested to hear some facts...
I have seen more busted arbs, air lines pulled out, solenoids stuffed etc than broken detroits. Granted these are temporary and can be fixed.

Have also seen plenty of people with arb's get stuck because they forgot to turn on their front locker etc.

For a trail rig that is not a daily driver I would recommend a detroit any day. Maybe because I have them in my jeep. heh

Only disatvantage I can see is the fact I can't switch it off if I have a tyre bound up under a ledge or something similar. Never had much of an issue turning even in sloppy mud, but I am short wheelbase so that may help.

Go the arbs if you have cash that isn't better spent elsewhere or you drive it on the street a fair amount.

cheers

z

Post by **dumbdunce** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:37 pm

have you ever seen a broken arb or just busted solenoids and air lines pulled out? I've seen a few busted lokrights and recently had Monty's detroit in pieces on the bench including a shiny handful of teeth off one of the side gears.

with an air locker you're far more likely to bust an axle (rear) or cv/hub (front).

having pulled apart a number of all three options the air locker has the biggest contact area (open and locked) and driven cross section (locked, even the inner clutch ring is bigger than the detroit dog clutches), with the highest quality manufacture. couple that with the ability to perform just like a factory open diff on/off road and it's a no-brainer. the downside is, like you've mentioned, the dependency on other systems, but i'd rather be replacing a solenoid or air line on the trail than replacing a shagged lockright or detroit.

Post by **MissDrew** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:25 pm

I used to have a detriot in the rear of my lux and thought it was the best thing. That was untill I changed to an air lock. I would never go back.

Also used to go through a set of gears a year when I had the detriot now I have the air lock that is down to a set every 2 years.

I have busted 2 of the early air locks, to date haven`t broken a newer one and have seen 2 or 3 broken detriots.
If a CV or axle lets go with a detriot it can transfer the load in such a way that it will distroy the other axle and the detriot its self and the ring and pinion (seen this happen twice)

They both have for`s and against`s.

Lock rites, wouldn`t touch even if it was given to me, have seen one last all of 6 hours in a suzi running 32 inch swampers and it wasn`t being given a super hard time.

Post by **dumbdunce** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:33 pm

the early air lockers (Roberts) are a different kettle of fish to what's available now. the early ones are far more breakable.

Guts I'm curious was the suzi lockright a 'professional' installation? for all my love of air lockers, I reckon a properly installed lockright should be fairly trouble free and long lasting.

Post by **MissDrew** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:40 pm

Was done by somebody that had installed many detriots and airlocks before doing the lock rite.

The Air locks I broke were the 6 bolt (not 4) that only had the main cross pin pinned at one end (they are now pinned both ends) What happened was the main cross pin broke in the middle and the none pinned end would float in and out of the air lock housing untill it ovaled out the housing and wore a hole in the copper line. So in a way I broke them but at the same time its not really broken

Try buying just a housing for that aged airlock :roll:

You can buy the pin for about $5 and a housing for a new lock just not one for that lock. I have them getting drilled and sleaved and the cross pin will be pinned at both ends. Once I get them back I`ll have a lock for the front of my 80 plus a spare

Post by **dumbdunce** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:47 pm

have you been peeking in my shop? how do you know I've got monty's busted air locker on the bench?

Post by **MissDrew** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:48 pm

same problem I take it :roll:

Post by **MQ080** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:49 pm

dumbdunce wrote:have you ever seen a broken arb or just busted solenoids and air lines pulled out? I've seen a few busted lokrights and recently had Monty's detroit in pieces on the bench including a shiny handful of teeth off one of the side gears.

.

i'd say this is how

Post by **dumbdunce** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:56 pm

I said Monty's detroit, not air locker, you dumb stupid gay gary coleman.

PS did I mention G A Y ???

(not that there's anything wrong with that)

Post by **MissDrew** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:58 pm

dumbdunce wrote:have you been peeking in my shop? how do you know I've got monty's busted air locker on the bench?

But here you said air lock :roll:

Post by **dumbdunce** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:07 pm

yeah but only after you told me to buy bits for 'that aged air lock'!!!

before that I hadn't mentioned that I had one, only that I've pulled them apart.

anyway one one I have isn't really worth saving, needs a new side gear/clutch, cross shaft, the case is badly scored on the side gear bearing surfaces, and bearing spigot extension where the orings run is cactus. Monty might want to sell it though - cold be useful for some parts. piston, other gears etc are ok.

Post by **MQ080** » Sat Oct 11, 2003 11:17 pm

dumbdunce wrote:I said Monty's detroit, not air locker, you dumb stupid gay gary coleman.

PS did I mention G A Y ???

(not that there's anything wrong with that)

...who said anything about gay?!? Just because he came 8th in the recient election behind Arnie and various other well known celbs. is no way to be treating a former diffrent strokes star

BTW when did the roberts lockers get taken over by arb brian?

Post by **Monty** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:23 pm

Guts im interested as to where you got your gears for your detroit from.

As already mentioned in this thread everyone is talking about my busted arb and detroit lockers that are at brians.
basically arb is going to cost to much to fix unless i can get the parts from where you are talking for that?

Secondly the detroit i have busted only one side gear on the detroit and have been quoated around 290 and cheaper with cash for the side gear but i want to get out of it cheaper than that so where did you get your parts to fix the detroits

Hmm im thinking twin locked 60 again like originally planned or locking carters rear cheap as well

Monty

Post by **MissDrew** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:53 pm

The detriots were toasted, was cheaper for them to but a new air lock the nfix the detriot.

VDS Engineering are doing the work on the locks for me, they do alot of work for ozemail`s race cars as well. The only part that I have vought for the locks was new cross pins. As for the cost of the machining work at VDS I don`t know yet as they have been to buisy to do them yet mainly because of Bathurst stuff for ozemail :roll:

Hope to have it done soon but.

Post by **wanna** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:47 pm

Guts i had a good run with the detroit in the rear of the zook 32 sx and all that and you got to see how i drove it its still in the car but if you got the extra money buy the air lock you wont be disapointed

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