well i think i will finally partly rebuild my motor as it is losing power and burning oil. I know the cam and pushrods or whatever are stuffed, so ill need a new one of them, and i was told that i need to get the heads cleaned up and the valves reaseated. and change the timing chain. Is there anything else i should do whilst the heads are off, and is there anythind else i can perhaps do whilst it's off to make it go a little harder. What do you guys reckon about the cam, do i need to get a vitesse one or are there other options. I would rather do it properly one time , and then have a good engine i might not have to touch 4 a while.
cheers Adrian
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rebuilding a 4.2 vitesse
Moderator: Micka
I should think any crow cam/wade cam etc will probably do the job. Not sure how well the Vitesse cams go though, there might not be much gain in changing to a different one.... Check out http://www.crowcams.com.au/templates/Ca ... over.shtml, and see what appeals - i'm using the 1,000 rpm to 3,900 in my 4.6, very happy with it, have a mate using the 1,400 to 4,200 one, which he's very happy with... both have a heap of grunt at highway speeds, and are dangerous in the wet 
84 Rangie, 3 inch spring lift, 2 inch body, Megasquirted 4.6, R380, rear Maxi, 34x11.5 JT2s. Simex FM installed.
It can cause low compression, or so I'm told - it didn't seem to on my 3.5 when it was completely missing the intake lobe off number 8.
If you are going to have the heads off, check the bottoms of the lifters, and turn the motor over by hand and inspect every lobe on the cam carefully - you will be able to see it fairly well without the intake manifold on.
If you are going to have the heads off, check the bottoms of the lifters, and turn the motor over by hand and inspect every lobe on the cam carefully - you will be able to see it fairly well without the intake manifold on.
84 Rangie, 3 inch spring lift, 2 inch body, Megasquirted 4.6, R380, rear Maxi, 34x11.5 JT2s. Simex FM installed.
G`day
One thing to check with the 4.2 when the heads are off is that none of the liners have moved .
To get 4.2 they must be oversized/bored , 3.5s can do the same after a bore but will usally only knock/rattle , 4.2s because of the stroke tend to drag the liner onto the crank and make a mess .
Cams are pretty much a personal thing depends what`s wanted and if sense can be made of them .
I use RanginRovers 2nd option mostly because i could talk to them and that`s what they do . Though if i ever have the front off i`ll advance it .
Mark2 one way of determining if a cam worn is to use a vacuum gauge .
Cheers
One thing to check with the 4.2 when the heads are off is that none of the liners have moved .
To get 4.2 they must be oversized/bored , 3.5s can do the same after a bore but will usally only knock/rattle , 4.2s because of the stroke tend to drag the liner onto the crank and make a mess .
Cams are pretty much a personal thing depends what`s wanted and if sense can be made of them .
I use RanginRovers 2nd option mostly because i could talk to them and that`s what they do . Though if i ever have the front off i`ll advance it .
Mark2 one way of determining if a cam worn is to use a vacuum gauge .
Cheers
Thanks - you've got me worried now as my engine is a 4.3 (3.5 stroked to 4.2 with a 20 thou overbore )peter r wrote:G`day
One thing to check with the 4.2 when the heads are off is that none of the liners have moved .
To get 4.2 they must be oversized/bored , 3.5s can do the same after a bore but will usally only knock/rattle , 4.2s because of the stroke tend to drag the liner onto the crank and make a mess .
Cams are pretty much a personal thing depends what`s wanted and if sense can be made of them .
I use RanginRovers 2nd option mostly because i could talk to them and that`s what they do . Though if i ever have the front off i`ll advance it .
Mark2 one way of determining if a cam worn is to use a vacuum gauge .
Cheers
G`day
What i mean is i`ll advance the cam timing , mine has a rollmaster timing set and it`s possible to do as you like with cam timing .
What happens with an engine thats done a bit of work , the timing chain streches , which retards the cam timing , this just means it works higher up the rev range and looses a bit of low down .
Mine i set to Wade specs but i`d like it to work a bit lower in the range .
Don`t remember exactly but it`s either 1 or 2 degrees is good for about 500 rpms lower when advancing .
Mine is set with a dial gauge and degree wheel or what they call dialed .
The cam lobes can really only be checked with a dial gauge down the lifter hole and measuring each lobe or by removal and physically measuring and looking .
Just looking at the lobes through the valley slots won`t show much unless they a very bad but as RanginRover said when you pull the lifters out put a straight edge across the surface that runs on the lobe .
Hold the straight edge and lifter up to the light .
Concave is worn past use . see light in the middle .
Flat is worn but still usable if nothingf is replaced . no light across entire surface .
Convex is the way they should be . light on either edge and none in the middle .
Factory cams commonly loose a lobe , with in appox 160ks from new , sometimes sooner sometimes later but also includes P38a RR or 4.0 and 4.6 engines .
There`s a few ways of checking the valve and ring seal while their still together .
A dry then wet compression test , using a compression gauge and oil .
A leak down test , easy way is just hooking an air compressor up to each sparkplug hole in turn .
Listen for escaping air at the exhaust , the inlet and the sump .
And the vacuum gauge , if read properly it can tell most things .
Yes if you turn the head upside down and pour liquid into the chambers if not sealing it will dribble or flow out the ports . A good seal will hold metho easily .
Won`t tell anything about the cam though , only the valves .
I`d suggest before you pull it apart you do as many tests as you can on it because alot can be learnt before dismantling , more than you can see with it in bits .
Also gives an idea of what it`s going to cost and if it`s viable or if a low k replacement engine may be . An engine that running can still be used one that`s apart has to be fixed or scrapped .
Obvious things like leaking head gaskets and poor valve sealing can be seen but tests will show them before it`s apart .
Cheers
What i mean is i`ll advance the cam timing , mine has a rollmaster timing set and it`s possible to do as you like with cam timing .
What happens with an engine thats done a bit of work , the timing chain streches , which retards the cam timing , this just means it works higher up the rev range and looses a bit of low down .
Mine i set to Wade specs but i`d like it to work a bit lower in the range .
Don`t remember exactly but it`s either 1 or 2 degrees is good for about 500 rpms lower when advancing .
Mine is set with a dial gauge and degree wheel or what they call dialed .
The cam lobes can really only be checked with a dial gauge down the lifter hole and measuring each lobe or by removal and physically measuring and looking .
Just looking at the lobes through the valley slots won`t show much unless they a very bad but as RanginRover said when you pull the lifters out put a straight edge across the surface that runs on the lobe .
Hold the straight edge and lifter up to the light .
Concave is worn past use . see light in the middle .
Flat is worn but still usable if nothingf is replaced . no light across entire surface .
Convex is the way they should be . light on either edge and none in the middle .
Factory cams commonly loose a lobe , with in appox 160ks from new , sometimes sooner sometimes later but also includes P38a RR or 4.0 and 4.6 engines .
There`s a few ways of checking the valve and ring seal while their still together .
A dry then wet compression test , using a compression gauge and oil .
A leak down test , easy way is just hooking an air compressor up to each sparkplug hole in turn .
Listen for escaping air at the exhaust , the inlet and the sump .
And the vacuum gauge , if read properly it can tell most things .
Yes if you turn the head upside down and pour liquid into the chambers if not sealing it will dribble or flow out the ports . A good seal will hold metho easily .
Won`t tell anything about the cam though , only the valves .
I`d suggest before you pull it apart you do as many tests as you can on it because alot can be learnt before dismantling , more than you can see with it in bits .
Also gives an idea of what it`s going to cost and if it`s viable or if a low k replacement engine may be . An engine that running can still be used one that`s apart has to be fixed or scrapped .
Obvious things like leaking head gaskets and poor valve sealing can be seen but tests will show them before it`s apart .
Cheers
well the weather was awsome on the weekend, so now the the cam is out, and it doesn't apear to be worn, but i will have to get it checked out. The valve seats seem to seal fine, as they kept metho in em all day without leaking. Everything looks pretty good aswel, and nothing looks to be burnt or anythin. Does anyone know of a good place to take the heads around mornington. The timnig chain was very loose however. Will see if i can get some pics up ,as i have already taken some.
i ported my heads and intake manifold out quite a bit, and my 4.6 with 9.2 compression, the ported heads, crow cam from 1000 to 3900, and on crappy flapper lucas injection (really didn't pull until 3,000rpm) with 32 inch tyres was noticeably faster than a 4.6 with 4.1 diff gears, crow cam from 1400-4200 (off the top of my head), 8.2 compression, 3.9 injection and on 35s. Draw from that what conclusions you will, as the gearing is different, although I think it would have been against me, but haven't bothered to check.
I didn't bother polishing them, as I'm advised it doesn't really make too much difference on a rover motor. If you're building a race motor, yeah it might, but I just wanted to get more flow in them. Don't take the exhaust ports out very far, as they have a reputation for cracking when ported out a lot (i didn't do much more than clean the casting up on the exhaust) and be careful of the coolant passages when doing the intake. I took the intake ports out to the size of the valley gasket, and opened them up as far back as I could reach with the die grinder, and did similar on the intake manifold. One thing I did notice, when vacuuming some of the metal out of the ports, was that you can hear a very distinct difference in the suction noise through the bigger port, so logic follows that the extra flow in should help with the bigger motor (I started with 3.5 heads).
Be warned though, you will get very covered in small annoying pieces of alloy, and about a quarter of the way through you'll be sick of it.
I don't know whether you are on carbies or injection, but I can tell you right now that the best thing I ever did was fit the megasquirt - changed nothing else in the injection system, and instantly noticed a massive gain in power across the board. It went from just being grunty to being somewhat scary, and when I pulled the AFM out and replaced it with 3 inch pipe, I noticed a bit more again (not surprising to anyone whos ever held a piece of 3 inch pipe up next to a flapper AFM, the afm is less than half the size internally.) A good management system or appropriately tuned carbs will definitely make a difference, if its standard.
I didn't bother polishing them, as I'm advised it doesn't really make too much difference on a rover motor. If you're building a race motor, yeah it might, but I just wanted to get more flow in them. Don't take the exhaust ports out very far, as they have a reputation for cracking when ported out a lot (i didn't do much more than clean the casting up on the exhaust) and be careful of the coolant passages when doing the intake. I took the intake ports out to the size of the valley gasket, and opened them up as far back as I could reach with the die grinder, and did similar on the intake manifold. One thing I did notice, when vacuuming some of the metal out of the ports, was that you can hear a very distinct difference in the suction noise through the bigger port, so logic follows that the extra flow in should help with the bigger motor (I started with 3.5 heads).
Be warned though, you will get very covered in small annoying pieces of alloy, and about a quarter of the way through you'll be sick of it.
I don't know whether you are on carbies or injection, but I can tell you right now that the best thing I ever did was fit the megasquirt - changed nothing else in the injection system, and instantly noticed a massive gain in power across the board. It went from just being grunty to being somewhat scary, and when I pulled the AFM out and replaced it with 3 inch pipe, I noticed a bit more again (not surprising to anyone whos ever held a piece of 3 inch pipe up next to a flapper AFM, the afm is less than half the size internally.) A good management system or appropriately tuned carbs will definitely make a difference, if its standard.
84 Rangie, 3 inch spring lift, 2 inch body, Megasquirted 4.6, R380, rear Maxi, 34x11.5 JT2s. Simex FM installed.
wow thanks for that. I don't think i need a new cam as now the people ive shown it to reckon it's good. The timing chain did have about 2cm of play in it. so im hoping that is where the noise was. I took the heads to coastal somethin or other in mornington. He seemed alright. Havent got em back yet though. Did you just shave from the head, or also from the intake and those trumpets. I have a motec injection. So im assuming that the megasquirt won't do to much?
Thanks for the help guys
Thanks for the help guys
Not sure what you mean 'shave the head'? Thats another story completely, separate to my porting. But as far as the porting goes, as mentioned earlier, i did the heads, and the intake manifold where it joins to the head. Didn't do anything with the ram tubes, just opened up the exit from the intake manifold as much as i could fairly easily and reasonably do.
About your noise, have you checked the rocker seats? Get a small screwdriver and stick it through the holes in the rocker seats (where the pushrod sits into) and make sure they don't turn or move in any way. If one does, that rockers had it. Also look for deep wear into one - it will be obvious. This is one of the most common sources of top end noise in a rover, as the hole in the rocker seat gunks up with carbony crap, and blocks oil flow. I'd also suggest changing lifters while you have it apart anyway - why buggerise around, and possibly end up doing it twice? Also, another question here - did you keep all the lifters in order? As putting them on different cam lobes to the ones they'd worn into can cause more noise, or so I'm led to believe.
As far as cam goes - who did you show it too, and how did they check it? My personal view would be since you have already taken the timing cover off, and already pulled the cam out, you may as well put a new cam and lifters in, since in your first post you mentioned wanting to do it properly so as not to have to worry for a while. If rovers weren't so involved to actually replace a cam, that wouldn't be the case, but since you are already at a state where fitting the new cam involves buying it and putting it straight in the hole......
If you have a motec already, then the megasquirt is not going to be a massive improvement, unless maybe its an ancient motec - I don't know how well they work. If you do a new cam and some porting though, you'd want to get your motec retuned to compensate.
About your noise, have you checked the rocker seats? Get a small screwdriver and stick it through the holes in the rocker seats (where the pushrod sits into) and make sure they don't turn or move in any way. If one does, that rockers had it. Also look for deep wear into one - it will be obvious. This is one of the most common sources of top end noise in a rover, as the hole in the rocker seat gunks up with carbony crap, and blocks oil flow. I'd also suggest changing lifters while you have it apart anyway - why buggerise around, and possibly end up doing it twice? Also, another question here - did you keep all the lifters in order? As putting them on different cam lobes to the ones they'd worn into can cause more noise, or so I'm led to believe.
As far as cam goes - who did you show it too, and how did they check it? My personal view would be since you have already taken the timing cover off, and already pulled the cam out, you may as well put a new cam and lifters in, since in your first post you mentioned wanting to do it properly so as not to have to worry for a while. If rovers weren't so involved to actually replace a cam, that wouldn't be the case, but since you are already at a state where fitting the new cam involves buying it and putting it straight in the hole......
If you have a motec already, then the megasquirt is not going to be a massive improvement, unless maybe its an ancient motec - I don't know how well they work. If you do a new cam and some porting though, you'd want to get your motec retuned to compensate.
84 Rangie, 3 inch spring lift, 2 inch body, Megasquirted 4.6, R380, rear Maxi, 34x11.5 JT2s. Simex FM installed.
Yeah ive kept all the lifters and pushrods in order. As for the cam i have shown leni in somerville, and shown the head reconditioner, and they both looked at it and were suprised in how good nick it was, as it hardly looks worn. I haven't checked the rockers like that though, and will definatly do that 2morro. What i meant by "shave from the head" was just if you only ground away at the intake on the heads, or also from the intake manifold, but if i reread ur post it is starring me right in the face. I also took the injectors to be cleaned up 2day, and hopefully i will be able to pick everything up fri and put it all back together, as im keen to get her goin again. Thanx for the reply
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