falcon motor

[mav_uteswb]

just a quick 1 here, there was a 40 series at ateco running a n/a ba motor in his and he seemed to be moving pretty quick

[Nutter®]

i have looked into a v8 and now a six cyl and need a couple of qs answerd and advice i have heard the falcon 6 would be a good swap as they are cheaper and with a cam produce some awesome figures only queary i have is will the six hav enuff low down torque to crawl as my dad said cos they have a short stroke it wont make good low down torque i can pic up a el falcon 6 complete ready to run for 950 and and an adaptor kit 1100 then a bit work
Chers Bourkey

In actual fact they have huge stroke small bore, so their all tourqe.

[Nutter®]

I would avoid an au model - no torque what so ever - we had one in a manual and the dirty old ea also manual we had side by side shat all over ot torque wise. topend was a different story. i think the au is an auto motor and when coupled to a manual box is usless. we had it back to ford several times and each time they found nothing wrong. that said the ea-eb are strond motors and so much smoother than anything else on offer. the el is better than the ef i think it has more main bearings etc - look up ford forums

cheers bru

Your wrong with this, AU has the most solid bottom end of all, the reason they have no bottom end power is they have factory tourqe restrictor in place below 2500rpm,

EA to Ed had no tourqe lock at all, EF and EL both did as did AU, ford couldnt fix yours as there was nothing wrong.

so technically if you run an AU motor with earlier Ecu your laughing, as you then get no tourqe lock plus variable intake runners.

[Nutter®]

ooopppss

[g@z]

I spent a few hours trolling the net for these answer, some of which were taken from brochure scans where I could not be 100% sure of.....


FORD


EA 3.2
90 kw @ 4000
235 nm @3250

EA 3.9 single point
120 kw @ 4250
311 nm @ 3250

EA 3.9 multi point
139 kw @ 4250
338 nm @ 3500

EB 4.0 Series II
148 kw @ 4500
348 nm @ 3750

EB 5.0
156 kw @ 4500
388 nm @ 3000

EB 4.0 XR6
161 kw @ ?
365 nm @ ?

EB GT
200 kw @ ?
? nm @ ?

ED 4.0
148 kw @ ?
348 nm @ ?

ED 5.0
165 kw
388 nm

ED XR6
161 kw @ ?
365 nm @ ?

EL 4.0
157 kw @ 4900
357 nm @ 3000

EL XR6
164 kw @ 5000
366 nm @ 3150

EL XR8
169 kw @ 4500
394 nm @ 3300

AU 6
157 kw @ 4900
357 nm @ 3000

AU VCT 6
168 kw @ 5000
370 nm @ 3500

AU V8
175 kw @ 4600
395 nm @ 3200

AU XR8
185 kw @ 5000
412 nm @ 3500

TL50 5.0 V8
200 kw @ 5000
420 nm @ 3750

TS50 5.6 V8
250 kw @ 5250
500 nm @ 4250

BA 6
182 kw @ ?
389 nm @ ?

BA Barra V8
220 kw @ ?
470 nm @ ?

BA Boss V8
260 kw @ ?
500 nm @ ?


HOLDEN

VN 3.8 V6
125 kw @ 4800
292 nm @ 3200

VN 5.0 V8
165 kw @ 4400
385 nm @ 3600

VP 3.8 V6
127 kw @ 4800
293 nm @ 3600

VP 5.0 V8
165 kw @ 4400
385 nm @ 3600

HSV VP 5.0 V8
180 kw @ 4600
400 nm @ 3800

VR 3.8 V6
130 kw @ 4800
298 nm @ 3200

VR 5.0 V8
165 kw @ 4400
385 nm @ 3600

VS 3.8 V6
147 kw @ 5200
304 nm @ 3600

VS 3.8 V6 s/c
165 kw @ 5200
370 nm @ 3200

VS 5.0 V8 series II
165 kw @ 4400
385 nm @ 3600

VS 5.0 V8 series III
168 kw @ 4400
395 nm @ 3600

VT 3.8 V6
152 kw @ 5200
305 nm @ 3600

VT 3.8 V6 s/c
171 kw @ 5200
375 nm @ 3000

VT 5.0 V8
179 kw @ 4800
400 nm @ 3600

VT 5.7 V8
220 kw @ 5000
446 nm @ 4400

VX 3.8 V6
152 kw @ 5200
305 nm @ 3600

VX 5.7 V8
225 kw @ 5200
460 nm @ 4400


So there ya go.

To be honest, I'd go a falcon 4 litre 6 in just about any year if looking to replace an L28. You're looking at a 75% increase in torque and a 60% increase in kw for just a 43% increase in capacity. Even more for later models.

Regards,
g@z.

[Jimbo]

OK everyone is arguing why not go commo motor or ford 6.....now my input why not go a Nissan 4.2?????

No conversion required and u can pick them up cheap!! For the $$ of a conversion wouldnt it make more sense to spend that on "doing up" the nissan motor? Extractors, cam and a bit of head work?

I know the figures show the ford motor is better but how much better would they go in a patrol? (Serious question as i havent been in one).

On another note we have a BA egas and it has great torque. Maybe its the auto but we can hold it in 4th (with the selecter), floor it and it still goes great at low speeds. Also the xr6 turbo wold be awsome in a patrol!!!! I just want one (wait a minute thats hsv)

Jimmy

[chimpboy]

OK everyone is arguing why not go commo motor or ford 6.....now my input why not go a Nissan 4.2?????

No conversion required and u can pick them up cheap!! For the $$ of a conversion wouldnt it make more sense to spend that on "doing up" the nissan motor? Extractors, cam and a bit of head work?

I know the figures show the ford motor is better but how much better would they go in a patrol? (Serious question as i havent been in one)

If we were talking about GQ patrols I'd agree, but the question was about an MK which comes with a 2.8 litre nissan engine. For that vehicle, I think the falcon motor would be a huge, huge, huge improvement.

For a GQ that already has a TB42 in it, I agree there is something to be said for improving the stock motor rather than swapping in a different motor.

[Beastmavster]

No conversion required and u can pick them up cheap!! For the $$ of a conversion wouldnt it make more sense to spend that on "doing up" the nissan motor? Extractors, cam and a bit of head work?

I know the figures show the ford motor is better but how much better would they go in a patrol? (Serious question as i havent been in one).

In an MQ it's a Major mod to fit - no easier than the Ford motor swap. Even if u use the GQ gearbox and tcase the rear output is in the wrong spot.

Ford motors are cheaper, more powerful, much lighter, cheaper to repair, far more fuel efficient, and no harder to fit.


I wouldnt swap a GQ/Mav 4.2 for a 4 litre ford (I have one myself - not worth the effort) but likewise I wouldnt go to the effort of fitting a GQ/Mav 4.2 in anything.

[v8zuki]

i have had both these motors in my patrols one of which i am wrecking now or sell whole
the wifes car was a l28 auto mk wagon 8 seater we put a vn v6 motor and auto in it,we get 12l/100kmson highway ,15l/100kms round townvery good motor swap ,very happy the only drawback is when towing car trailer fully loadedwill struggle at 100kph,the wight at the time it was towing was max gvm on car and maxgvm towing so it did okconsidering the weight
the ute if got std xe falcon 6 4 sp patrol will do all the above but will sit at 100 loaded ,also had this conversion in my swb mq ,towed a camper weight 870 kg to cape york with no fuss very good conversion
the reason went auto was it was ,i like them
so if u need more info call mick 0415156693 as i have done tens of thousands of kms in both trucks
mick

[JeSTeROCK]

Not an expert on ford motors but the ones i have driven pull hard and are a little touchy on the go peddle.

With the older ford motors you have to be very careful with the cooling. They like to overheat.

With computer setup its much better to go the ones with map sensors rather than airflow meters. The airflow meter computers don't seem to be very responsive.

This being said older models tend to have map sensors ie VN - VR commodores. The newer ecotec motors have much better flowing heads and more power.

As written in an earlier post, best thing to do is to get a low k's late model motor and an older map sensor computer.

The motor choice (6's) for a larger 4wd would have to be the falcon, for power and torque. An advantage of using a commo motor would have to be its compact size, allowing you to move the radiator back towards the firewall allowing a tube bar and winch further back giving a better approach angle.

Even better get a super charged commo motor, tonnes of torque, standard forged pistons and rods, lots of after market parts like pulleys, reprogrammed chips etc

[feral4x4ute]

the falcons have a sweet motor would make a good transplant plenty of torque and a nice exhaust note

[dansedgli]

I just thought I would bump this thread up.

I want to put a falcon motor into my GQ and run it on straight gas with a megaquirt ECU that I have built controlling the ignition.

I took a turbo EA motor (206rwkw) out of my EA and fitted a BA motor in its place so I have a spare turbo EA motor in the garage.

Is dellow the only one that makes conversion kits for the falcon motors?

Would the standard falcon power steering pump have any trouble turning bigger tyres? I would run a max of 35's on it. What do people usually do with their power steering when they change the engine?

Thanks,
Dan

[cooki_monsta]

hey dan, i wouldnt be running the power steering pump, well, it might work but u will need to keep an eye on it, it may not be strong enough for the rack, in which case your front end will feel heavy.

apart from that it sounds like an awsome exchange, i have always wanted to put a ba e gas engine into my gq nice power and very economical

[dansedgli]

A BA motor would be nice.

Its a shame the ignition systems are so complicated.

Ive just built a megasquirt that I was going to try and get the BA motor in my EA running with. Depending on how well it went I was going to put a BA motor in the maverick as well.

Ive decided I dont really want to have to run thermofans though because I go through a lot of mud. An earlier motor seems like a better choice as they either come with a clutch fan or it can be adapted fairly easily.

I figure with a turbo on the side 200rwkw is a piece of cake out of any of them and I have the EA motor sitting here already.

I guess it wont be too hard to fab up a bracket to fit the GQ power steering pump if necessary.

[GQRob]

I'm sure some of you's know this but I thought it might help clear things up a bit about the Falcon 6... hopefully

The Bore & stroke of the falcon 6cyl engine basically hasn't changed since the 70's and from memory is about 92x99mm (longer stroke than bore diameter = more low end torque but lower top end power) Good for 4WD's.

I've heard the EA-AU engines respond well to different camshafts ie. sacrificing some top end power for low down torque. Obviously the factory camshafts are a balance since they are going in cars not trucks. It's also a fairly easy change since there's only one cam and it's on top.

Up until and including AU the computer control of the engine is pretty straight forward, not sure when the MAF meter came in but any earlier model computer or aftermarket computer set up to run with a MAP sensor would be ideal.
If you were running straight gas you could just run just a ignition controller (or possibly a stand alone dizzy) and skip the whole computer mess.
BA though is another story...

[b]Facts (Well I'm pretty sure about this info... Ha, Feel free to correct)[/b]

Pre EA the engine was pushrod

EA-AU Single Overhead Cam (engine remained fundamentally unchanged)
There were improvements to the head, combustion chambers, cam shafts profiles, compression ratios, computer, etc which all help improve the numbers a little, but it is still fundamentally the same engine & most parts are interchangable.
That said, in my opinion your better off to get the newest you can because it is further developed. Avoid EA cos there known for their head failures.

EF onwards - engines got the new dual length intake manifold which helped improve torque a little.

EF & AU not EL - had coil packs rather than the electronic distributor. From memory these engines had an auxiliary shaft to run the oil pump & a plate over the dizzy hole.

BA on - Dual Overhead variable timing Cams, Coil on plug setup, Electronic throttle, Oil pump driven directly from crank shaft (Bottom end virtually the same, Totally new head) Engine Computer is alot more sophisticated.

[Eddy]

Dan, as one who has actually fitted the falcon motor to Nissan Patrols (and therefore completely unqualified to comment according to the rabid holden freaks hijacking this thread) I can only say "do it"

The falc has as much usable grunt as the patrol sixes, and more than the earlier ones could even dream about.
The very reason that they were such a popular swap in the old 3 speed G60s was that they more than made up for the lack of a low first gear in that model.
Power steering pump should be ok, but if not I think the V8 or F100 pump is an easy fix to.

[WICKED]

i run the EL4.0 six in my MQ with the C4 and 60's t-case (dellow adapotor) with 68% reduction (marks and marks handbrake adapotor). Never short of power. it can crawl but when it's needed it GOES!

Power steer pump works fine on the MQ too.

Have pics of the Engine bay and auto and all if wanted too.