Fuel pump problems

[strafe]

G'day,

My second post on this forum, first new thread though. Have found it a delight in reading all the posts over the past week since I've found it, and have learned lots of new things.

Firstly, the car: '95 Vit JLX G16B, 270,000k's, mostly stock, only suspension and running gear mods.

Problem: fuel pump has shat itself (or so one would have thought)..

Problem first occurred doing the Mundaring powerline track about a month ago. We turned the car off for about 20 mins to have a snack and a rest, and then when starting the car up.. fuel pump wasn't pumping!

A gentle WHACK to the fuel tank got the pump going again, and we were able to get home without troubles. The problem has reoccurred maybe four times since then, only after driving (never in the garage). We knew the pump was on the way out....

Each time a gentle tap to the tank has allowed the car to start. The pump is quite audible when you flick the key to 'on', until the fuel relay switches it off after a few seconds.

Anyway, this morning - no pumping of fuel. Car doesn't start (yes, there is fuel in the tank). Tapping the tank, checking the wiring, fuses, immobilizer, all proves futile. Checked the fuel pump quick-connect plug behind the rear bumper for voltage before the relay switches it off - 12v as intended.

This afternoon I decided to drop the tank and source a replacement pump, as obviously the pump has shat itself. After much swearing and saying to myself "I'll never do this again..", and the missus swearing at me saying "If you can't put it back together, its all your f$%^ing fault" and "don't come running to me if you blow yourself up", I pulled the pump assembly out of the tank.

I quickly hooked the pump up to the battery to check if it was indeed buggered, but to my frustration the bloody thing worked again.

So, I now have five questions:

1) what the hell is going on?
2) should I replace the pump anyway (I think its original)?
3) can I use a more common pump (have read somewhere that a VL commo pump will fit)?
4) could it be anything else causing the problem?
5) best place in Perth to source suzuki parts?

Any advice or suggestions at things to test out will be greatly appreciated.. It's the missus' car so the sooner its back on the road the less verbal abuse I'll cop.. :-)

Cheers
Steve

[nicbeer]

mm is there a decent earth going to the tank?

Perth - suzukishop in cannington.

Btw - another perthie, welcome
Nic

[strafe]

mm is there a decent earth going to the tank?

I guess so, whats the best way to check? (the tank is entirely out now though..) The negative leading from the pump assembly backwards should be all the earthing it needs?

And if the quick connect was registering 12v.. that should be fine?

Suzukishop in cannington hey.. I'm in Ellenbrook.. :-(



UPDATE: 22:12wst
Just plugged the pump back in via quick-connect behind rear bumper, turned the key to 'ON', and it fires up as per normal....

[smileysmoke]

possible that its faulty and only shows under load?
try out of a jerry into another bucket see if it fails.. someone else may have a better idea though

[Trav83yo]

dont put holden parts on suzuki maybe you have lots of crap builldup in tank

[nicbeer]

Sweet, ellenbrook, i'm in wanneroo.

On the tank, yeh the main earth should be ok. i would maybe price up another tank and keep that one as a spare maybe as it could be on its way out. sounds electrical problem thou.

Is there anything in common that happens when or before it dies?

Nic

[strafe]

Is there anything in common that happens when or before it dies?Nic

The only time the problem has occurred has been in starting the vehicle - never while driving along..

[Heath.Davis]

What was the state of the fuel left in the tank? Is it full of crud? Maybe the pump has been picking up crap and blocked up but the gentle tap frees the impellor( not sure on the way they work) and allows it to spin. Check the filter for signs of rubbish and the pickup. Can these be run backwards to blow anything in them out the way they came in? Or is it easy to break them down to check the pump?

Sorry not a 100% on these pumps, always had mech pumps no elec ones (old vehicles), but maybe worth looking at. Definately look at load testing and perhaps getting a new one cause you dont want to have to "park and walk", if it's anything like over here worst case when you get back it will be burned or stripped, best case just vandalised.

Heath (NZ)

[strafe]

Finally sourced a new pump, here are some prices from different vendors:

- SuziStore in Midland: $295
- Suzukishop Cannington - $300+ (he wouldn't give me an exact price)
- Repco, Supercheap, AutoPro, AutoOne, all in the $200+ range
- Coventry's - $99
- Odin's in Balcatta: $139, but price matched Coventry's $99
- Suzuki dealer in Cannington wouldn't even talk to me since I couldn't give him the VIN number


Pump model numbers in case anyone needs to find one, and their local supplier isn't sure:

Goss pumps: GE044
ACDelco pumps: EP115AU
Fuelmiser pumps: FPE-271
Bosch pumps: F005X11474

I ended up with a GE044 from Odin's, however they originally sold me a GE043 which did not fit as it was too tall.

The GE044 has different terminals, but comes with a terminal mount, but the pos and neg wires will need to be crimped onto screw terminals to attach to the assembly.

Also, if you get a GE044, hold on to your existing circular rubber stopper from the bottom of the fuel pump assembly, as the GE044 kit doesn't include one.

Will be fitting the pump back into the tank tonight after it is dry, and hopefully have the beast back on the road before tomorrow!

[cjdeane10]

Try Suziwest:
74 Elgee Road, Midland WA Australia 6056
Seem to have everything - but i aint sure how their prices stack up.

Cant you just run a after market, universal electrical fuel pump?
just hook it up to your oil pressure switch?

Coventry's have may diffent sizes - and i these have worked well on my other cars.

[strafe]

Try Suziwest: 74 Elgee Road, Midland WA Australia 6056 .... Cant you just run a after market, universal electrical fuel pump?

SuziWest/SuziStore is the same thing, $295. I previously sourced a heater hose from them for $18, and they diagnosed a misfiring problem (attributed to worn out ignition leads) so they were my first port of call.

You still need the correct dimension pump (width and height), so that it fits inside the tank and sucks up from the bottom. Plus has to pump at correct pressure and quantity.

Managed to get everything up and running on Tues night, only problem was the fuel strainer with the GE044 pump did not fit inside the tank's internal structure (there is a square insert inside the tank, presumably to stop sloshing and keep fuel available when not level).

The supplied strainer would have been all bent up, nearly parallel to the pump and would have eventually worn away on the edges of the square insert (does anyone know what that thing is called?) so the old strainer went back on. Better a 2nd hand strainer than one that is surely to get ripped soon.

[rosie]

Hi mate, Mine just shat itself too. Got it for $65 from some place in ossy park who sold powertools but was meant to deal with aftermarket parts as well. I remember something with that filter too. Also, I wrecked my copper hose comming off the assemblie and had to heat it up and carefully bend it to get it back on.

I think the pump was your problem for sure and the tapping just triggered it each time and it was past it this time. Same thing as mine but luckily mine went on the driveway the next time I started it after 4 nights at Wedge. I couldn't get the bloody tank to drop all the way though either, and it would have to be full when it happened too.

I'm also a Perth boy, Are you on Perth4x4.net? Ben

[strafe]

Got it for $65 from some place in ossy park who sold powertools but was meant to deal with aftermarket parts as well.

Do you remember what brand and model # it was?

I couldn't get the bloody tank to drop all the way though either, and it would have to be full when it happened too.

I had approx 7 litres in the tank, but the hardest part was dropping it. The fuel filler hose was caught on the chassis rail making it very difficult, and couldnt remove the filler hose from the tank itself without excessive force, in the end I left the hose on and just kinked it past the chassis rail, eventually the tank was free.

Probably the hardest part of the whole deal was the frigging fuel filter, at the start I couldnt get the line from the tank to the filter off, then couldnt reach the bolts holdng the filter in the assembly, then couldnt get the blasted bolts back in when finished!!

Not on perth4x4.net...

[rosie]

Nah mate, i couldn't get mine to drop either. I wouldn't know brand or anything now, i just bought the cheapest and it all fitted and went. It looked like a legitbrand though.

[Dooley]

Try Suziwest: 74 Elgee Road, Midland WA Australia 6056 .... Cant you just run a after market, universal electrical fuel pump?

SuziWest/SuziStore is the same thing, $295. I previously sourced a heater hose from them for $18, and they diagnosed a misfiring problem (attributed to worn out ignition leads) so they were my first port of call.

Nic doesn't like suziwest for some reason... can't remember exactly, think they screwed some people around. Maybe he can tell you why.