zook one make comp class

[Gwagensteve]

Sounds good except for not permitting gears.

Eveyone agrees on this board that to run a 31 you need transfer reduction so why expect a car with 31's to run rocks with 32:1?

I think care needs to be taken to not turn it into a demolition derby- I would say the same thing for unlimited diffs on a small tyres - I think knowing tha you won't break diffs will encourage really agressive driving which will lead to big damage and be a turn off for many (including me)

Personally, I would like to see a bit of elegance rewarded, so the driver that knows when to get off the throttle is rewarded rather than the guy that just lucks their way through with lots of boot- this is the same reason I think gears are important.

If, as an example, DT's are suspected, then it will be up to the competitor to prove otherwise by pulling a CV - takes 10 minutes.

Personally, at 31", I don't think DT's are that much of an advantage so maybe it's not worth worrying about.

I don't think there is any need to do the protest buy thing. if someone wants to compete in their road car they might have way more than $2500 in it - let them compete - the formula needs to be inclusive not exclusive.

Steve.

[Zute]

Some rules don't need to be installed at the start. As the category grows they can be implemented later, and voted on by thous competing.
I like most of "fools" regs, Ill reread them several times be for I'll comment.
But I do agree with Steve, for the need of T-case gears. When I added mine, the driving became so much more enjoyable.
I would also recommend using the standard carby, as this could quickly get out of hand.
I don't think we need buggies. Anyone contemplating one is really moving beyond this class.

I've competed in Hill climbs, motorkhanas and Super sprints. Always in the Improved production class. It started off being for road reg vehicles. But some could get cars passed while others could not. In the end compulsory rego was dropped.
When I build mine, it will be a trailer queen. ( things are gunna brake )

[basketcase]

I think this is a good idea in theory. But I don't think it should be so restrictive. And rules do have to be set in concrete before the start of the comp or each season if it goes past its first.

If tyres size is going to be restricted to 31's zuk diffs sound ok. WT or NT but have a maximum track

SWB chassis and body

Open the drive train option, limit the size to something like 1.3 or 1.6 but alow any motor and box (auto or manual). No blowers and limit mods.

Zuk Transfercase with gearing open, maybe vitara even??

Alow wheel base stretch up to a couple of inchs as long as factory spring mounts are not moved. May be strengthend but not moved.

spua

Diff gearing open, Lockers open, strengthend axles and cv's open

6 point cage. All same design, either purchase and follow plans or buy from approved dealer.

No winchs

power steering and hi steer allowed

must meet normal saftey standards for all comps.

Would like to see this go interstate. would even be interested in helping to run it up here.

any one else in QLD interested?

[waxhead..]

Yes. Very.

[Zute]

Looks like waxhead ready to go

[PAZZ]

id be keen as i have two nt zooks sitting int he backyard!

also there is a 4wd park near newcastle that would be good for a compitition like this, nothing to crazy there, flat camping area, very cheap, think the owner charges 5 bucks a car per day, and think his only rule is not to take legal action if you do somthing silly and hurt yourself.

[Eddy]

I'm liking this a lot.

But do keep it simple.

Suzuki components only ...no lux diffs etc

"No" to 1.6l ... stick to the 1.3 max Once you free up the engine options the budget gets opened up too.

TTcases seems ok ... relatively simple.

31" tyres

[Tiny]

will sit down at black rat with Wayne and a fw of the zook club fellas and run though this a bit, like I said the main thing is the cost needs to be kept down, that is the main reason for the concept, I am un decidedregarding shackles, with 31s and a technical course then there should be no real reason mega flex is needed.

basically I see that we need to put some rules in concrete then look for insurence, I have a card for the 4wd park out of newy, and for maybe a few rounds to get the hang of the concept and to find places etc intra and interstate and iron out the bug that somewhere central like newy would be good

anyway lots of things to deal with, and no point getting to far ahead of ourselves just yet, but with some help, plenty of people willing to get builds underway I think a date a test round would be able to be acheived around october

keep the good ideas and sugestions coming

[zookjedi]

i reckon it'll be great

but why only spua and not allow spoa as well, surely if there allowing trailer queens anybody can do a budget spoa. horses for courses , personally id wanna be competing against zooks that aren't excactly set up like mine , comps are about ingenuity as well as good driving , long as its cheap and affordable for the masses . i mean rear disconnect but no spoa ? how many people have rear disconecton on there zooks? compared to spoa , it'll also get the spoa vs spua out there for all to see , im sure the vic boys have no problem competing against spoa as there spua set ups work better

i agree with what oldmate said about 31" tyres and do what ya want with the diffs and engine , were talking rocks so any bonus gained in the strength department will be lost in the pumkins being so much bigger .

again were wide diffs with spacers and big offset rims beat a skinny nt can be offset by tighter courses etc .

as for being a demolision derby if strong diffs are allowed (hilux etc ) who cares if they hurt there vehicle because they think its unbreakable than thats up to them ,thats how alot of the werock fellas used to drive but alot of them have tamed down alot and started picking lines , and again if were talking rocks they wont get to far before being hung up or diffed out on an obsticle due to not driving sensibly

i just reakon there could be heaps of competitors if its left more open with like tyre size being the biggest rule in concrete

but if needed more rules , apart from that id say standard diffs with what ever you want engine wise cause zook diffs can only take so much hp so theres no advantage in big horses

oh and i run n/t diffs

eitherway the way its set out should be a success as long as what you decided you stick with , that way everyone will know what can and can not be done

[Gwagensteve]

I don't disagree jedi - the only real opposition I have to SPOA is that their are so many ways of doing it-

Some ways will have the effect of totally changing the behaviour of the vehicle - all the geometry really changes - bump stop locations, shock lengths, traction bars etc can all be set up heaps of different ways. Odds are, the best performing cars will be the ones that have the most time and $$$ in them which will go against the spirit of the sport.

I have pulled enough scary steer off SPOA cars to know that not everyone thinks it is important to have a safe car. In pure crawling it might not matter, but if it goes to broader events (a bit more speed) then scrutineering for safety of steering etc becomes a big deal.

Again, my reponse to this woudl be to mandate something like the snake highsteer knuckle so the organisers don't have to be responsible for the safety off all the garbage people think think they can steer their car with, but then the $$$ really ramps up

I probably don't have an issue with bigger diffs if width stays as per a WT zuk. If SPOA and wider diffs (and therefore track widths) are allowed then you really have a whole different class as the performance of the cars will be no longer comparable, and trying to limit chassis mods etc is pointless.

Just my 2C

Steve.

[grimbo]

ok blah blah bah about the setup of the vehicles. What about the actual comp?

I reckon it should be along the lines of the British style of trials. Gated obstacles over short sections. No real potential for major vehicle damage but the emphasis is on driver skill. This means that a huge area is n't needed, scoring is simple as each gate is worth x amount of points. If you make it to the gate you get the points, - penalties for out of bounds etc.

[sierrajim]

The problem with wider diffs being allowed would then allow double toughs. A relatively costly mod.

This would then mean you could run 1.6 to Vit 5 speed, sierra geared transfer, WT diffs with double toughs on 31's. A combination that would give you enough gears to crawl, enough usable gears that you could get "some" speed and would be almost impossible to break on 31" tyres.

Now a sensible driver on this combination ($1,600 EFI motor and box, $1,100 transfer, $1,300 front axles, $650 disconnect, $165 cutting brakes, $300 rear discs, $1,600 cage, $600 alloy wheels, treated ring/pinions $250, treated rear axles $250, seats $300 harnesses $300 window nets $150

Total $8,565 without the cost of the car, any work needed to get the car up to scratch, suspension etc

Standard engine takes off $1,600
Rear disconnect $650
Axles/wider diffs $1,300

New $5,015 for a light weight and relatively strong set up.

[Gwagensteve]

Blah blah blah.... what colour will the Tshirts be?

[lay80n]

will sit down at black rat with Wayne and a fw of the zook club fellas and run though this a bit, like I said the main thing is the cost needs to be kept down, that is the main reason for the concept, I am un decidedregarding shackles, with 31s and a technical course then there should be no real reason mega flex is needed.

basically I see that we need to put some rules in concrete then look for insurence, I have a card for the 4wd park out of newy, and for maybe a few rounds to get the hang of the concept and to find places etc intra and interstate and iron out the bug that somewhere central like newy would be good

anyway lots of things to deal with, and no point getting to far ahead of ourselves just yet, but with some help, plenty of people willing to get builds underway I think a date a test round would be able to be acheived around october

keep the good ideas and sugestions coming

Keep us posted Tiny, i am more than happy to help out with anything. Will prob compete, but that means i gotta buy another chassis and body (got everything else i need lying round )

Layto....

[Tiny]

gunna put pen to p[aper now and come back leter today with a first draft, I think we have an idea regarding the vehicle style, lets get some more oppinions on track / terrain etc

[grimbo]

have a bit of a look for Trials style events in the UK. usually these are held in hilly country or old quarries. They are short stages with side slopes and steep short climbs. The placement of the flags is what makes the difficulty. By putting them just off ideal lines through obstacles it makes the challenge. The good thing about using the natural terrain and flags is that it doesn't take much to change the courses.

[Tiny]

ok, can people go over this please, give me some feedback, stuff to change and add, PM me your email if you would ike it in word format and I will email it to you.

I would appreciate some one putting together some drafe rules on the competition itself, somone who has seen a bit of this uk stuff, I like the idea of a gated cross country type thing, ie anything from rock to mud to steep hills to wombat holes and logs etc

I would like it in a format where you loose points for hiotting bunbting anf gates but not out, also back and fills allowed but point are lost unless the course allows free back and fills in an area, time out period per course, no 3 seconds and your out crap

cheers

















Sierra Cup

Draft Rules and Vehicle Specifications

Section 1 – Vehicle Specifications

1.1 Base Vehicle

1.2 Body

1.3 Transmission and drive

1.4 Suspension and Steering

1.5 Safety
1.1 Base Vehicle

The base vehicle must be a Suzuki Sierra SWB (all year models / variants) in leaf spring form, no coil sprung sierras will be allowed

The vehicle will be allowed certain modifications, however many of those will limits the size of the vehicle to ensure the class stays as cheap as possible. This class will be kept cheap to serve as an entry level series to allow people to compete in a level playing field to test there driving skills against each other

In the interim, no vehicle cost limit will be imposed, as the intention is to allow road registered vehicles and unregistered buggy type vehicles to compete against each other provided they conform to the specifications and safety criteria.

1.2 Body

Vehicles will be allowed in three forms, a full body with internal roll cage, b full body with exo (external type cage) and c open buggy type (chassis and cage)

a. This body type is intended for road registered vehicles, although you may run this type unregistered as well.

The body of the vehicle should be rust free and registered to ensure the structure of the body is not compromised. The vehicle should be fitted with a 6 point roll cage with suitable mounting points for harnesses, and the tube works should be covered with padding in any area where the navigator or drivers body may come in contact with the roll cage. Open top vehicles must be fitted with a solid steel or heavy steel mesh roof section, this section my be removable. Doors must be run, however half doors are acceptable

b. This body type is intended for road registered and un registered vehicles.

The body of the vehicle should be rust free and registered to ensure the structure of the body is not compromised. The vehicle must be fitted with a full external roll cage. Any section of cage where the driver or navigator may come in contact with the roll cage must be padded, ie the roof bars on an open top vehicle. Open top vehicles must be fitted with a solid steel or heavy steel mesh roof section, this section my be removable. Doors must be run, however half doors are acceptable

c. This body type is reserved for un registered type vehicles only.

In this body type a fire wall, floor, side panels up to thigh level and a solid roof section either in steel sheet of heavy mesh must be fitted to the vehicle. Any section where fluids may spray or leak near the driver or navigators seated position must be covered, ie rear mount radiators and pipe work, no fuel, or other fluid lines may run through the cabin area of the vehicle.

1.3 Transmission and drive

All Suzuki drive line and engine must be maintained

a. Engine must be either 1ltr or 1.3ltr sierra engines running on petrol only, no vehicles my run on gas or other fuels such as methanol. Engines should be fitted with carburettors only, no throttle body or direct injection will be allowed. Engines must be naturally aspirated only, no supercharger, turbo charger etc will be allowed. No additional fuels may be added, ie nitrous oxide will not be permitted.

b. Gearbox must be standard Suzuki MANUAL gearbox only. No changes to gearing will be accepted

c. Transfer Case must be standard Suzuki 1ltr or 1.3 ltr case. The case may be mounted in any configuration. Transfer gearing is open, as is twin stick and other transfer modifications. A rear disconnect may also be added to the rear of the transfer case

d. Drive shafts may be modified, strengthened and other wise changes, double carden and or modified CV type drive shafts will be acceptable

e. Diffs must be Suzuki NT or WT diffs, any standard brake configurations is acceptable, fiddle braking is acceptable provided the standard braking is retained and a mechanical emergency braking system is in place. Diff gearing is open.

f. Diff locks should be installed, welded, auto or manual type lockers are acceptable, however manual lockers should be turned on prior to starting the course and must not be turned off until the vehicles has either exited the course or being deemed out by the marshals.

g. CVs may be strengthened by birfield rings, heat / cryo treatment or by replacement chrome moly type CVs

h. Tyres should be no larger than 31*11.5R15 as marked on the tyre side wall. Tyres should be of a mud terrain type tyre and have a reasonable amount of tread remaining to ensure adequate grip is provided. Tyres should be mounted to a steel type 15â€

[cj]

[quote="Tiny"]

h. Tyres should be no larger than 31*11.5R15 as marked on the tyre side wall. Tyres should be of a mud terrain type tyre and have a reasonable amount of tread remaining to ensure adequate grip is provided. Tyres should be mounted to a steel type 15â€

[Zute]

I think CJ has a good point. But maybe it could wait till the class is up and running.

Tiny, liking the rules so far, BUT, not sure about twin transfers . or is this just for buggies/open class ?

[fool_injected]

Wear then becomes a factor as it decreases the overall diameter
Standard practice is to use the manufactures side wall markings
No dispute. If is say 31" it's a 31" case closed no arguments

[grimbo]

[quote="cj"][quote="Tiny"]

h. Tyres should be no larger than 31*11.5R15 as marked on the tyre side wall. Tyres should be of a mud terrain type tyre and have a reasonable amount of tread remaining to ensure adequate grip is provided. Tyres should be mounted to a steel type 15â€

[fool_injected]

I think CJ has a good point. But maybe it could wait till the class is up and running.

Tiny, liking the rules so far, BUT, not sure about twin transfers . or is this just for buggies/open class ?

Twin transfers provides a potential cheaper alternative to crawler gears
As both buggies and bodys run the same cage, chassis, etc and all conform to the same minimum weight. All vehicles compete in the same class (ie buggies -v- bodies) but there will be a club and indivual series, Obviously comparity being an issue buugies have a weight advantage and will need to run ballast. Min weight will likely be set as standard hard top weight.
So why run a buggies? Firstly they look cool and will draw crowds, secondly less body work to reair and thirdly you can put the ballast where you like
Buggies will have to run a zook bonnet and grill to help the noobs understand that they are essentially the same type of vehicles

[grimbo]

I don't agree with having the buggies in it at all. Keep them as full bodied Sierras. If you want buggies WE Rock & OZRock cater for them.

Also get rid of the twin transfer option. Try and keep it all "bolt on" parts ie readily available stuff that everyone can use. The more even the vehicles then it comes down to the drivers ability

[fool_injected]

ok blah blah bah about the setup of the vehicles. What about the actual comp?

I reckon it should be along the lines of the British style of trials. Gated obstacles over short sections. No real potential for major vehicle damage but the emphasis is on driver skill. This means that a huge area is n't needed, scoring is simple as each gate is worth x amount of points. If you make it to the gate you get the points, - penalties for out of bounds etc.

A key to cheaper insurance is to make it a non-timed event
Generally speaking all events will be points for gates type
I reckon a variety of courses would be good
Like your idea, like the XRRA stuff, traditional crawling, khana type events
Suppose it really depends on the venue as to the type of event

[waxhead..]

So keen on this. Yes I am ready.

[zooki]

why allow a complex and expensive mod like rear disconnect but outlaw a common and cheap mod like RUF?

I think the buggy (really only a bodyless sierra) is a great idea as it opens up a lot of options to buy rusted out donor vehicles cheap

[basketcase]

I agree with grimbo that it should just be bodied rigs, no biggies. Keep it one class as well.

With the drivetrain, why no auto?? IS it because it was not an option in sierras here?? If can be sourced why could it not be used?

Does the engine have to remain in the stock position??

No rear disconect, its a basic comp and i don't think the zuk gear could take it?

With supspension I think there should be more room for change there. Keep it leaves but allow RUF and maybe a longer leaf option in the back. If you canyt have a longer leaf and can't change the chassis mounts whats the point of allowing extended shackles?

If you can change the rear shock mount why not the front?? Shock Hoops?

And one last thing I think the name sounds a bit

Any more qlders besides waxhead?? Zukes of Hazard boys??

[basketcase]

One more thing.

What does the tyre width mater if you are going to have a maximum track??

[cj]

One more thing.

What does the tyre width mater if you are going to have a maximum track??

Max width and max track are not the same thing.


I'm not so keen on the tube buggies as I think that is separate comp altogether.

RUF? It's a pretty common mod.

[cj]

I would appreciate some one putting together some drafe rules on the competition itself, somone who has seen a bit of this uk stuff, I like the idea of a gated cross country type thing, ie anything from rock to mud to steep hills to wombat holes and logs etc

I would like it in a format where you loose points for hiotting bunbting anf gates but not out, also back and fills allowed but point are lost unless the course allows free back and fills in an area, time out period per course, no 3 seconds and your out crap

Here's some Trials Rules from a UK Club to give some ideas.

Rules for Trialing

· ALL entrants must have a valid membership of Buxton & District Land Rover Club prior to signing on to compete in a trial.

· All entrants must hold a driving license.

· The Club reserves the right to Scrutineer any vehicle prior to starting the trial. See Scrutineering checklist.

· Tyres are to be road legal. No open tread e.g. Maxicross or dumper tyres.

· All Vehicles without a roll cage or roll over bar must run with the roof and sides and windscreen fitted, or if a soft top rear hoops.

· A suitable rope capable of recovering the vehicle if rolled or stuck must be carried by each competitor

· Trials consist of a number of sections. Each section consists of 10 gates, starting at 10 and descending to 1.

· Each gate, which will be marked by two canes, will be a minimum of 3.00 m wide. The tops of the canes will be marked with two flags numbering the gate. A coloured flag will be on the right hand cane and a white flag will be on the left-hand cane.

· Vehicles try to drive from gate 10 to gate1 without either hitting a cane, losing forward motion or reversing.

· The course is defined as the ground between gate 10 and gate 1.

· Crossing your own tracks is not permitted (except during a shunt)

· Vehicles in class 3 will be allowed ONE shunt (stop and reverse) per section. A shunt is to be indicated whilst the vehicle is still in forward motion with a sound of the horn. A shunt may only be used to negotiate tight turns and must not be used for a second attempt at mud runs or hill climbs.

· If any part of your vehicle hits a cane (the flag does not constitute part of the cane) you will be scored at that cane. If you stop you will be scored to the gate you are approaching. In order to pass a gate you must get at least one of the vehicles front hubs across a line joining the two canes forming that gate and then either stop or clear the whole gate without hitting a cane.

· Out of bounds between any two gates will be marked by crossed canes. These canes can be touched but not knocked down. Knocking down crossed canes will be deemed a stop. The cross canes are valid for that pair or gates only. E.g. between 5 and 6.

· If you fail to make the start of a section at the time allocated (i.e. due to mechanical breakdown) a maximum score will be incurred.

· If you feel for what ever reason that a section is beyond your capability you can either drive as far as you feel happy with or report to the Secretary of the meeting to take a Max for that section.

· It is the driver’s responsibility to walk the cause and ensure that they feel happy to drive the course.

· Missed sections will not be re run.

· Standard and modified vehicles will start at the same gate, but may separate at an appropriate part of the section. If a split ending to a section is indicated, vehicles competing in Standard class must follow the standard course and vehicles competing in Modified class must follow the Modified course

· A competing passenger is not permitted to be a passenger in any other competing vehicle.

· Only appointed Marshals will indicate a score to the Secretary of the meeting.

· Disputes should be bought to the attention of the SoM and if unresolved the Steward and the CoC before that section is finished.
Trials Championship 2006

If you wish to be eligible for inclusion in the final Championship standings at the end of the year you must have competed in at least SIX Buxton and District LRC Off Road Trials. These six qualifying events must have been driven in ONE CLASS throughout the year. If you compete in more than seven events, your BEST SIX results will count towards the Championship.