New 4x4 for new baby.......Defender vs Troop Carrier

[kombi]

Here's my situation.
At present I own a '00 Rodeo Dual Cab V6 4x4 which has been a good vehicle for us and was enough room with 2 little boys. It's thirsty but effortlessly covers the miles and has been faultlessly reliable. A lot of the driving I do is either around town (rural NSW) or freeway back and forth to Sydney and Canberra, but I also do paddock work helping friends on their farms, a decent amount of dirt road driving and the odd sticky situation. And to add to that, I'm a muso and I need something with room in the back to cart gear. The Rodeo has been up to all of that.
I know, most of you would say "not a proper 4x4" but it's done us well enough.

Problem is the missus is due to give birth to #3 in October and we need a another vehicle that will fit 3 kiddie seats and fulfil the other stuff I mentioned.

There is stuff about the Rodeo I wasn't fussed with. Fuel economy, well, to be blunt there WASN'T any.....mostly under 400kms on 60 litres! It's also a little tight inside for a guy like me who's 6'2". And I'd also like the convenience of a closed in back. The Rodeo has a tonneau but it isn't completely water tight.

So, as you see, I don't need a monster truck ready to take on the Gobi Desert after scaling the Canadian Rockies. What I need is something rugged that will happily travel on the freeway or around town or on the dirt, can cart stuff and tow and will pull me out of the odd bog or up an ascent if needs be.

And now, the difficult factor.......the wife. She doesn't like standard Cruisers or Patrols and thinks Pajeros and Discos and Rangies are for Chatswood Wives. I can't print her true feelings on the various SUVs out there. What she likes is old looking stuff and the Defender and Troopies are ok with her. I'm thinking of a vehicle between about '98 and '03 and with a budget of around $25k I'm hoping it'll get me something.

Oh, almost forgot.......turbo diesel is practically a must.

Now, let me have it.
BTW, I'm most interested in hearing from people who've actually driven these. I'm not calling anyone a liar but I'd like it straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Cheers

[-Scott-]

'98 to '03 Troopy is basically a 3 door - have you considered the baby seat aspect?

I think the multi-valve Toyota td is a fabulous motor, but I'm not sure if/how long it's been available in the Troopy - will you consider aftermarket, or does it need to be factory turbo?

Other than the reliability questions which plague Rovers, I think the Defender is a great truck.

Good luck,

Scott

[blackpak]

What about a Toyota Prado. My folks have had one for 5 year now and has never let them down. They have the last of the older shape 90 series. 3 litre turbo diesel which get around 10 to 11 L/100km. Dual diesel tanks (Cant remember the size) mean's not having to fill up for over 1000km. Never really done any hard 4wd with it, but got to cape york and back without a drama.

[kombi]

Mmmm, I think I'd be up against it trying to convince the missus to get a Prado.
She just doesn't like the modern square look, especially the Prado.
And to be honest, either do I.
Incidentally, does the Landy have serious reliability issues?
Even the turbo diesels?
Which other problems do they have?

[Micka]

I have an '03 Defender Xtreme.

I would personally recommend against using them as a family car for new borns.

Why?

1. No baby seat anchor point.
2. The back seats are not far back enough to fit a baby capsule in correctly.
3. The aircon is SHIT.
4. They leak like a sieve. The cargo area in the rear will let in water through the side windows and in really heavy rain, your stuff will get wet.

My daughter was 3 when I bought my Fender and that is a good age to get one, as the child seating problem is easier to overcome.

I had a '98 Disco when she was a new born. Much better for new families and you don't have to fold up the pram to put it in the back. And the cargo area is great for changing nappies.

[grimbo]

as Micka said both of your choices aren't suitable for a baby. Baby capsules need up to 650mm of seat space I believe for the first 6 months as they are reclined and facing backwards. You wouldn't be able to get a baby into onne of these in a Troopy without actually getting into the back seat each time.

Speak to an installer of baby seats as I reckon he would be able to get 3 baby seats across a dual cab Rodeo. A friend of ours needed to get 3 across a CRV. Everyone said it wasn't possible but she went to a professional; fitter who got it done by recommending they change one of their seast to another type and all was good. Then they had another kid and stuffed up all his good work

[jonamaphone1]

sounds like you have your priorities mixed up, - how it looks as the number 1 issue.

[kombi]

Mmmm, I'm beginning to think you're right.
The biggest problem with the Rodeo are firstly that it has 2 anchor points and can not be fitted with a third.
Next is the overall space issue........I'm REALLY over most of our stuff going in the tray and the cab being piled up to the roof with bits and bobs and toys and bags.
Mostly it stays dry, but not without some creative packing and knowledge of exactly how the water gets in, and even then it seeps through at times.
Plus it's dusty as hell.
And a not too distant third is fuel economy.
If I didn't do so much paddock and dirt road driving I'd buy a Kombi....but then you may've worked that out by the name.

[Utemad]

If you were considering a Defender then you mustn't be poisoned against getting a Land Rover.

So in that case why not a Discovery?

If you have 3 prams to go with the 3 baby seats (plus toys etc) then you could look at a Disco2. Disco1 would be too small. I don't know how a Td5 fits for sub $25k but worth a look.

They still look like a 4x4 instead of a Camry on roids.

If I said to my wife that we were getting a Defender for a family car she would just laugh. She won't even drive my Discovery.
However I went to a uni where the women drove utes so they must be out there.

[Yumsylux]

Hey mate I understand your pain. My wife says the same things, she doesn't want a "ASCOT" car. (being in brisbane)
We went shopping for a 4by last weekend and have narrowed down to the defender and troopie too! For the troopie, not sure how a baby seat can fit into a side seating setup but you can get the 5 seater wagon. Three doors can be annoying when the little buggers fall asleep and you have to carry them out. Especially the height. We've really narrowed it down to a defender but yeah the whole leaking window/door thing would be annoying too considering you pay a fair bit for one. But saying that it's nothing a stick of silicon or some tweaking of the seals can't solve. Those are our thoughts anyway.

[kombi]

Well, we came to a decision.....we're not getting a new 4wd!
We'll keep the Rodeo for the offroad stuff I mostly do.
But the everyday car will be a VW Kombi project I've had in the works for about 7 years.
I love the thing to bits (hell, it is IN bits) but it's going to be completely rebuilt and ready for the new baby complete with specially engineered baby capsule points and seatbelt points.
No aircon and no central locking but I don't care.......I'm getting safari windows.
If you don't know what they are check out the windscreen on the blue Kombi in the Bigpond ad.
Anyhow, I guess this kinda ends this thread.
Thanks to those who offered suggestions.
Just goes to show how much my wife hates conventional 4wds.
One day I'll pick up an old landy or troopy or I just might score a Kombi ute and chuck a lift kit on it.

[macca81]

lifted kombi utes are bloody great! saw a bloke that had that done with cruiser running gear under it, went like a shower of shite offroad!

[slowLux]

Mmmm, I think I'd be up against it trying to convince the missus to get a Prado.
She just doesn't like the modern square look, especially the Prado.
And to be honest, either do I.

The two cars you mention are prettymuch the squarest cars on the market

[macca81]

Mmmm, I think I'd be up against it trying to convince the missus to get a Prado.
She just doesn't like the modern square look, especially the Prado.
And to be honest, either do I.

The two cars you mention are prettymuch the squarest cars on the market

i think thats what he is getting at, the missus only wants a boxy car, and so those 2 options are the ones on the top of the wish list...

[zagan]

So the Delica 4wd Van isn't any good?

More room in that than a Kombi van I'd say, I havn't looked in one but they fit 8 people.

Plus a proper 4wd.

[macca81]

have you seen a delica? they are one of the ugliest vans out there!! and thats from someone who drives vans for a living! it looks like someone has taken a reasonably normal looking van, given it a 15inch body lift, and filled in that space with black plastic!
its a vehicle for soccer mums who dont wanna look like soccer mums!(appologies to all soccer mums)

[cruiser60series]

delicias are shite, my aunty had one and put 3 new engines in under warranty (one blew on the oodnadatta) and got rid of it the moment warranty ran out. wouldn't recommend it to anyone

[turps]

Interesting you say that. As its just a Pajero with a funny looking body. I have actually heard good things about them. only got short travell susp. But would work well.

[macca81]

VERY funny lookin body...


and anyway, its a paj

[kombi]

lifted kombi utes are bloody great! saw a bloke that had that done with cruiser running gear under it, went like a shower of ##### offroad!

Well, I wouldn't bother with Cruiser running gear.
Just get an adjustable front beam and adjustable rear spring plates and push her up with some decent coil overs to help.
Use the transaxle from the 1600cc engine with the lower gearing so she'll turn the taller tyres and then fit a Subie engine or the like.
Lots of room under the tray for a radiator setup.
4x4 is way too much trouble.
Besides, the rear engine rear wheel drive gives them astouding traction.
Not great for rock hopping perhaps but great in their own way.
There's a great pic of a lifted Kombi dual cab pulling a Cruiser out of a bog on Fraser Island.
And the Kombi's only a 2wd!

[kombi]

So the Delica 4wd Van isn't any good?

More room in that than a Kombi van I'd say, I havn't looked in one but they fit 8 people.

Plus a proper 4wd.

GET THEE BEHIND ME, SATAN!!!
Please don't mention Delica in the same breath as Kombi.
One has soul and street cred and the other is yet another example of Mitsubishi's determination to push ugly, 2nd rate people movers and 4x4s onto us.
I feel ill enough watching all of those horrible Taragos and Starwagons without someone sticking big wheels under them and telling me they're all of a sudden legit!
Sorry, Zagan, didn't mean to come across all nasty but any of my mates will tell you that it's a bad idea to compare Jap minivans with Kombis in my company.
One poor woman once said to me "I used to drive a Nissan Urvan.......they're like a Kombi."
My wife took her aside afterward and explained why her comment was met with an uncomfortable dead silence and a chilly expression.
Imagine someone came up to you and said "I used to drive a Mini Moke, that's a but like a Landcruiser.........."
And having owned a few Kombis I can tell you that modern vans, unless they're considerably bigger and wider, like the long wheel base Mercs and Transporters, aren't any bigger inside.....they're just harder to park!
Anyhow, I'll stop hijacking threads and go back to the VW forums.

[kombi]

The two cars you mention are prettymuch the squarest cars on the market

i think thats what he is getting at, the missus only wants a boxy car, and so those 2 options are the ones on the top of the wish list...

You understand what I'm getting at, macca.
The thing is, Cruisers and Patrols and the like got all "sleek", or at least tried too.
But the Troopies and the Defenders especially look like the sort of 4x4s people were driving in the 60s and 70s.
Most of the cars I like the look of are about 40 years old.
More to the point I'd feel like a tosser behind the wheel of a Cruiser or a Patrol.
You guys actually head bush but most of the time I'd be burning fuel on the freeway or around town so that'd make me little better than a soccer mom.......except of course that I DO do paddock and dirt driving at least once a fortnight and look for opportunities to point my truck down a stretch of dirt and hammer it.
So if I don't really act the part that much I feel better driving something that's less conspicuous.
Besides, the wife likes Defenders.
We happened to be up in Goulburn to see the Big Merino being moved and as we walked past some parked cars we saw a yellow Defender with the bench across the back and seats along the side in the cargo area.
We'll probably buy one one day, although I'd like that raised Kombi ute more, maybe even packing a turbo diesel.
And the missus LOVES Kombis.

[macca81]

i get you coz my thorts are prety much the same as yours... theres no vehicle i like the look of more than a shorty 40, and i cant stand the look of the 80 or 100 series cruisers, even the 70 series has gotten softer lines that i dont like that much...

and also like you, i do 95% of my driving along the highway to and from work, and occasionly go offroad, as much as i can, just not often enuf... the heart is still into gettin it dirty tho

[Loanrangie]

I got a 98' tdi auto disco to replace my old rangie, our bub is 3mnths old and have a 4yo as well it fits all our shit in no probs and the wife will drive it unlike the old rangie. TDI is great and gets 900k's to the tank and will still keep up with day to day traffic and even surprise a few cars with its pickup.
I like the D2 as they are just that bit longer in the cargo area but didnt want a V8 or high k TD5 and couldnt afford a post 2000 model which is what i would want. I love the defender but as micka saidthe interior ergonomics just arent good enough although this has been addressed in the new soon to arrive 2007 model.

[chimpboy]

Please don't mention Delica in the same breath as Kombi.
One has soul and street cred and the other is yet another example of Mitsubishi's determination to push ugly, 2nd rate people movers and 4x4s onto us.

, at first I thought you were saying that Kombis have "street cred"!!!

(Well, maybe in Nimbin I guess...)

[rhys3697]

What about a crew cab syncro transporter with a canopie, not a full on 4wd but would be a great touring vehicle for a family, with heaps of storage space ?

[kombi]

What about a crew cab syncro transporter with a canopie, not a full on 4wd but would be a great touring vehicle for a family, with heaps of storage space ?

I have to admit, it did occur to me, but do you know how much Syncro parts are?
No? Either do I and I'm afraid to ask.
A mate has a standard Syncro which is gorgeous but he had to source Sth African transfer case and other 4x4 specific gear as the standard German stuff just isn't up to snuff.

, at first I thought you were saying that Kombis have "street cred"!!!
(Well, maybe in Nimbin I guess...)

Whatever you reckon.
When I cruise past people with the safari windows open and turn heads I'll be the one laughing.
Besides, who'd admit to being conceived in a Cruiser or a Patrol?

[macca81]

theres nuthin wrong with a kombi, IMHO they have more street cred than ANY other van out there...

[kombi]

theres nuthin wrong with a kombi, IMHO they have more street cred than ANY other van out there...

My point exactly!
Although I reckon one of those little old Commer vans with reworked suspesion, discs, alloys and a late model OHC engine & 'box would be pretty cool too.
Standard however they were slugs and handled like a dog on lino! :(